I would appreciate input on the following. We are considering the possibility of doing either a second printing of Part I or a second edition of Part I sometime in the future (not soon!). A second edition is much more work as it entails adding new material. For reasons that are mundane, but practical we feel it probably best to keep the book at its present length. Thus, the points are:
1) If new material is put in some of the present material must come out. What material would you suggest be culled?
2) What type of new material would you suggest including?
3) I feel like expanding the section on the people who have hunted the mine – suggestions or input?
Or, should we just do a second printing?
Thank you for your time,
Suggestions
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Thomas Glover
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Joe Ribaudo
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New Material
Dr. Glover,
Your first book was (IMHO) the best I had ever read on the legends of the Superstitions. What made it so much more interesting than most of the others, was the new material that you presented. A reprint of your first book or even a rehash with a few new stories thrown in, does not hold much interest, at least for me. I usually look through a new book before I buy it and if it's just a retelling of old stories I seldom purchase it.
Some of the stories of the lesser known Dutch Hunters, can have a great deal of interest for those who are already steeped in LDM lore. It seems to me LDM books would have a limited focus of interested buyers, you would know better than I. More focus on new people and less on the technical aspects might provide enough "human interest" stories to attract a new clientele. With your sources, I can imagine one in particular, you could give us something along the lines of a historical novel which I would buy in a heartbeat.
You are the accepted authority here and it seems unlikely that you would find any value in yesterdays old news. So far I am a buyer and not a writer, so I can only see one side of your questions. That would be the consumers side.
A great deal of what you wrote, confirmed my own conclusions and one thing in particular. That had to do with something I am not even looking for (the LDM) but it will eventually cause me to make a side trip.
Thanks for having the vision to look a little farther.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Your first book was (IMHO) the best I had ever read on the legends of the Superstitions. What made it so much more interesting than most of the others, was the new material that you presented. A reprint of your first book or even a rehash with a few new stories thrown in, does not hold much interest, at least for me. I usually look through a new book before I buy it and if it's just a retelling of old stories I seldom purchase it.
Some of the stories of the lesser known Dutch Hunters, can have a great deal of interest for those who are already steeped in LDM lore. It seems to me LDM books would have a limited focus of interested buyers, you would know better than I. More focus on new people and less on the technical aspects might provide enough "human interest" stories to attract a new clientele. With your sources, I can imagine one in particular, you could give us something along the lines of a historical novel which I would buy in a heartbeat.
You are the accepted authority here and it seems unlikely that you would find any value in yesterdays old news. So far I am a buyer and not a writer, so I can only see one side of your questions. That would be the consumers side.
A great deal of what you wrote, confirmed my own conclusions and one thing in particular. That had to do with something I am not even looking for (the LDM) but it will eventually cause me to make a side trip.
Thanks for having the vision to look a little farther.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Suggestions
Tom,
Why reprint a book you can purchase just about any where? If you have new material,then I would suggest a part 2 or a new book altogether. The type of material you may wish to add,might include what you already offered to do on this forum and then ignored. (Stone Maps July 08,2003) To check the photos you recieved from Gene Davis.
Why reprint a book you can purchase just about any where? If you have new material,then I would suggest a part 2 or a new book altogether. The type of material you may wish to add,might include what you already offered to do on this forum and then ignored. (Stone Maps July 08,2003) To check the photos you recieved from Gene Davis.
TERRY - Update your email address. Current one is dead and you will not receive notices.
I would hate to see any of the material from your first book deleted. It is a fine work and needs no improvement. I agree with TC, a new book if you have enough material. You gave very brief treatment to some of the characters of the mountains in book 1, maybe you could expand on that.
So, do a second printing of the present book, and bring on the much-anticipated next volume. Like Joe said, you are the man, Tom, so run with it!
So, do a second printing of the present book, and bring on the much-anticipated next volume. Like Joe said, you are the man, Tom, so run with it!
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Thomas Glover
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Azmula,
Among the errors on the Stone Maps are the credits for the pictures of the them. In the book I credit the photos as having been done by Richard Robinson, but that is not correct. I originally looked at ones by Rich, but the ones I used were done by Jack San Felice. The Spanish translations in the book are done by an educated native speaker. Please feel free to email me directly ([email protected]) with any ideas, corrections, etc. as I am not a Stone Map person -- historically it is probably my weakest area.
Thomas
PS: I, too, have been enjoying your articles on the Jesuit Treasure.
Among the errors on the Stone Maps are the credits for the pictures of the them. In the book I credit the photos as having been done by Richard Robinson, but that is not correct. I originally looked at ones by Rich, but the ones I used were done by Jack San Felice. The Spanish translations in the book are done by an educated native speaker. Please feel free to email me directly ([email protected]) with any ideas, corrections, etc. as I am not a Stone Map person -- historically it is probably my weakest area.
Thomas
PS: I, too, have been enjoying your articles on the Jesuit Treasure.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Honesty
Dr. Glover,
"I am not a Stone Map person -- historically it is probably my weakest area."
Did you put everything you have found in your research concerning the Stone Maps in your book?
IMHO you put just about all of the history (that is available) into the book. Unless someone comes up with some air tight documentation, everything else is conjecture and pure fiction.
We often get "facts" on this forum which use "somebody said" as a source.
Your honesty in the above statement was refreshing.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
"I am not a Stone Map person -- historically it is probably my weakest area."
Did you put everything you have found in your research concerning the Stone Maps in your book?
IMHO you put just about all of the history (that is available) into the book. Unless someone comes up with some air tight documentation, everything else is conjecture and pure fiction.
We often get "facts" on this forum which use "somebody said" as a source.
Your honesty in the above statement was refreshing.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
New Perspectives
Tom,
I have read your two books on the LDM. No changes should be warrantted. The material covered is broad and effective for beginners to novices. What I would suggest is another perspective.
There is the background untterances that the LDM may have been a Peralta mine. Write an exploratory text that examines what has to exist if the LDM were a lost Spanish mine.
Charles Kenworthy has some base materials.
The 1584 ordinance from the King of Spain sets the standards for trail markers and how the mine should be built. This document alone is worth a ransom to obtain and translate!
Any directions by Spanish mining authorities on the finding of mines and signs to seek would be helpful.
Instead of using common information, conduct a "what-if" drafting to see what and where such a mine should be. THEN - Use this information to seek the LDM from the clues gathered.
In the spring of 2004 I hope to check out my earlier posting of where I think the LDM is located. A hidden valley not far from Kenworthy's claimed LDM location. Care to join me in the spring?
I have read your two books on the LDM. No changes should be warrantted. The material covered is broad and effective for beginners to novices. What I would suggest is another perspective.
There is the background untterances that the LDM may have been a Peralta mine. Write an exploratory text that examines what has to exist if the LDM were a lost Spanish mine.
Charles Kenworthy has some base materials.
The 1584 ordinance from the King of Spain sets the standards for trail markers and how the mine should be built. This document alone is worth a ransom to obtain and translate!
Any directions by Spanish mining authorities on the finding of mines and signs to seek would be helpful.
Instead of using common information, conduct a "what-if" drafting to see what and where such a mine should be. THEN - Use this information to seek the LDM from the clues gathered.
In the spring of 2004 I hope to check out my earlier posting of where I think the LDM is located. A hidden valley not far from Kenworthy's claimed LDM location. Care to join me in the spring?
Charlie
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Joe Ribaudo
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It's Nice to be the KING
Charlie,
Since the Jesuits were hiding the Kings Royal Fifth, why would they follow his ordinance or standards? It would be a nice touch, just in case the maps fell into the wrong hands, if the King could read them.
Anyone know just how good the brain trust was that Kenworthy used to work on a solution to the Stone Maps? What was it they found? Do we really think we can match the team that he used? Why do you suppose they missed that "hidden valley"? Sloppy research?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Since the Jesuits were hiding the Kings Royal Fifth, why would they follow his ordinance or standards? It would be a nice touch, just in case the maps fell into the wrong hands, if the King could read them.
Anyone know just how good the brain trust was that Kenworthy used to work on a solution to the Stone Maps? What was it they found? Do we really think we can match the team that he used? Why do you suppose they missed that "hidden valley"? Sloppy research?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Perfection
Nobody is perfect especially myself. However, I would exspect the Jesuits to mark their mines with religious artifacts of gigantic proportion. Not necessarily with the King's markers.
In November I will explore a site where I believe a statue measuring 210' feet was toppled to the ground. Not part of the LDM mystique, but potentially part of a Spanish Don's mine.
I have never argued that the LDM was a Jesuit mine. In fact, I believe it was a Peralta Family Mine which would make it more likely to follow the Kings 1584 ordinance.
The believers in the Stone Map are hunting for a Jesuit Mine which may or may not follow ordinance rules. Sometimes it is best place to hide something is in plain site. In this case with the Jesuits, in a spent mine that "everyone knows" contains no valuable ore.
I hope to find "la Purisima Concepcion" which would be verified with a sign over the entrance with the name and a metal door sealing the mine. If my estimates are off, I could be searching for the "Tumacacori" mine and hunting for a metal box containing several maps and jewels. Either way, we will have fun, meet with the forest rangers to obtain what little assistance they are willing to give, and identify several strange aerial photograph markings that I think are Spanish Mine Trail Markers.
What I have found are conflicting stories with little ensurance in finding the truth. I have had to mix and match potential solutions, test scenarios and opt for the most likely scenarioa based upon verified clues that match the stories. Sometimes multiple correct answers exist which only expand my search pattern!
It will be fun!
In November I will explore a site where I believe a statue measuring 210' feet was toppled to the ground. Not part of the LDM mystique, but potentially part of a Spanish Don's mine.
I have never argued that the LDM was a Jesuit mine. In fact, I believe it was a Peralta Family Mine which would make it more likely to follow the Kings 1584 ordinance.
The believers in the Stone Map are hunting for a Jesuit Mine which may or may not follow ordinance rules. Sometimes it is best place to hide something is in plain site. In this case with the Jesuits, in a spent mine that "everyone knows" contains no valuable ore.
I hope to find "la Purisima Concepcion" which would be verified with a sign over the entrance with the name and a metal door sealing the mine. If my estimates are off, I could be searching for the "Tumacacori" mine and hunting for a metal box containing several maps and jewels. Either way, we will have fun, meet with the forest rangers to obtain what little assistance they are willing to give, and identify several strange aerial photograph markings that I think are Spanish Mine Trail Markers.
What I have found are conflicting stories with little ensurance in finding the truth. I have had to mix and match potential solutions, test scenarios and opt for the most likely scenarioa based upon verified clues that match the stories. Sometimes multiple correct answers exist which only expand my search pattern!
It will be fun!
Charlie
Kenworthy's Brain Trust
I know little about Kenworthy and his brain trust. I gather he was a multi-faceted treasure hunter and acted like a butterfly to seek the latest interest while dropping searches that were waning. His sudden excursion into the pyramid story in one of his books was the act of someone I might worry about. (Sounds familiar to me.)
I never met Kenworthy, but would have appreciated the opportunity. I did contact his widow in my efforts.
As for brain trusts, sometime from the mouth of babes comes miraculous direction. The story - a semi-trailer that was a little too high rammed itself into the bottom of an overpass. All of the experts were confused on what to do to remove the truck and pondered the problem for hours. A kid asked, "Why don't you take the air out of the tires and move the truck?" The problem was solved. Everyone was looking beyond the actual problem to all of the problems that would be created by implementing the easiest of solutions rather than implementing the most obvious solution.
I have listened to "children" in the professions I have worked and found innocent simplicity, honesty, and correctness. Every perspective on solving the LDM puzzle needs to be used as a potential informational source because the correct solution has not appeared with what has been used to date. Do not assume it is wrong just because the source is in question.
And dats da trufth!
I never met Kenworthy, but would have appreciated the opportunity. I did contact his widow in my efforts.
As for brain trusts, sometime from the mouth of babes comes miraculous direction. The story - a semi-trailer that was a little too high rammed itself into the bottom of an overpass. All of the experts were confused on what to do to remove the truck and pondered the problem for hours. A kid asked, "Why don't you take the air out of the tires and move the truck?" The problem was solved. Everyone was looking beyond the actual problem to all of the problems that would be created by implementing the easiest of solutions rather than implementing the most obvious solution.
I have listened to "children" in the professions I have worked and found innocent simplicity, honesty, and correctness. Every perspective on solving the LDM puzzle needs to be used as a potential informational source because the correct solution has not appeared with what has been used to date. Do not assume it is wrong just because the source is in question.
And dats da trufth!
Charlie
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Joe Ribaudo
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Kinda High
Charlie,
Those were really good posts, because there is plenty to think about.
[Charlie]
"Nobody is perfect especially myself. However, I would exspect the Jesuits to mark their mines with religious artifacts of gigantic proportion. Not necessarily with the King's markers.
In November I will explore a site where I believe a statue measuring 210' feet was toppled to the ground. Not part of the LDM mystique, but potentially part of a Spanish Don's mine."
Joe:
Why would you expect the Jesuits to use "artifacts of gigantic" proportions to mark their mines? Did you mean to say "210' feet"? Would that be a statue carved in stone? Have you heard of the Jesuits using this method in other cases?
[Charlie]
"I have never argued that the LDM was a Jesuit mine. In fact, I believe it was a Peralta Family Mine which would make it more likely to follow the Kings 1584 ordinance."
Joe:
I agree, but it is also possible that the Peraltas followed a different King.
[Charlie]
"The believers in the Stone Map are hunting for a Jesuit Mine which may or may not follow ordinance rules. Sometimes it is best place to hide something is in plain site. In this case with the Jesuits, in a spent mine that "everyone knows" contains no valuable ore."
Joe:
I can't speak for Azmula or any of the other "believers in the Stone Map"
but I am not "hunting for a Jesuit Mine". While they may have used a mine shaft to hide their treasure, do you think they would then leave the entrance exposed? When you say "everyone knows" do you mean us?
You are perfectly correct when you say: "It will be fun". It always has been for me.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Those were really good posts, because there is plenty to think about.
[Charlie]
"Nobody is perfect especially myself. However, I would exspect the Jesuits to mark their mines with religious artifacts of gigantic proportion. Not necessarily with the King's markers.
In November I will explore a site where I believe a statue measuring 210' feet was toppled to the ground. Not part of the LDM mystique, but potentially part of a Spanish Don's mine."
Joe:
Why would you expect the Jesuits to use "artifacts of gigantic" proportions to mark their mines? Did you mean to say "210' feet"? Would that be a statue carved in stone? Have you heard of the Jesuits using this method in other cases?
[Charlie]
"I have never argued that the LDM was a Jesuit mine. In fact, I believe it was a Peralta Family Mine which would make it more likely to follow the Kings 1584 ordinance."
Joe:
I agree, but it is also possible that the Peraltas followed a different King.
[Charlie]
"The believers in the Stone Map are hunting for a Jesuit Mine which may or may not follow ordinance rules. Sometimes it is best place to hide something is in plain site. In this case with the Jesuits, in a spent mine that "everyone knows" contains no valuable ore."
Joe:
I can't speak for Azmula or any of the other "believers in the Stone Map"
but I am not "hunting for a Jesuit Mine". While they may have used a mine shaft to hide their treasure, do you think they would then leave the entrance exposed? When you say "everyone knows" do you mean us?
You are perfectly correct when you say: "It will be fun". It always has been for me.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Yup!
Joe,
I did say 210 foot for the height of a "bust" statue that I believe has fallen (or pulled down) on the ground. I will look at the site with two friends this year. I will report the findings.
As for the "hidden in plain sight" and "in a mine known to be empty" refers to knowledge at the time of the hidding. Not current knowledge.
I will let you know how my field trips fair... Give me three months before yelling for info...
I did say 210 foot for the height of a "bust" statue that I believe has fallen (or pulled down) on the ground. I will look at the site with two friends this year. I will report the findings.
As for the "hidden in plain sight" and "in a mine known to be empty" refers to knowledge at the time of the hidding. Not current knowledge.
I will let you know how my field trips fair... Give me three months before yelling for info...
Charlie