In the late 1800's, the ranchers that kept cattle herds in the Supers would have their cowboys take salt blocks back into the mountains for the cattle. There were several locations where they placed these and I think I read that Tom Kollemborn when he was a teenager working for Tex Barkley used to carry these salt blocks into the mountains.
One question. Does anyone know the location (with some percesion) up on Peters Mesa that was called the "salt flats". This was a rocky location up on the mesa that did not have vegation on it and was an ideal spot to put out the salt blocks for the cattle that were kept back there.
Roger [/img]
The "Salt Flats" on Peters Mesa
Roger,
The Salt Flats up on Peters Mesa are perhaps 100 yards or so west of the "hairpin" turn in the trail that connects the Charleybois Trail with Peters Canyon. If one was to stand on the bedrock and face north; Black Mtn would be to your west, Malapais would be to the northwest, Peters Dome would be almost due north, the trail to Peters Canyon would be to your east, Charleyboy trail and Spring would be due south. You really cant miss the area if you just head west towards Black Mtn from the hairpin.
While the area is not entirely devoid of vegetation (there are lots of prickly pear clumps) much of it is bare down to the bedrock. Legend has it that John Kochera found a sackfull of ore in the area, and that the remains of an old arrastra drag circle can still be seen nearby....
P
The Salt Flats up on Peters Mesa are perhaps 100 yards or so west of the "hairpin" turn in the trail that connects the Charleybois Trail with Peters Canyon. If one was to stand on the bedrock and face north; Black Mtn would be to your west, Malapais would be to the northwest, Peters Dome would be almost due north, the trail to Peters Canyon would be to your east, Charleyboy trail and Spring would be due south. You really cant miss the area if you just head west towards Black Mtn from the hairpin.
While the area is not entirely devoid of vegetation (there are lots of prickly pear clumps) much of it is bare down to the bedrock. Legend has it that John Kochera found a sackfull of ore in the area, and that the remains of an old arrastra drag circle can still be seen nearby....
P
Salt Flats on Peters Mesa
Peter, thanks for the detailed location. I have been up on Peters Mesa but did not explore that immediate area. There is a lot of history in that area. Ben Edwards and Matthew Roberts reportedly found a Mexican "drift" mine that ran along a fault line up on Peters. The also believed that the arrastra you reference was used to work that ore plus some that did not match what was in the local dump next to the drift mine. Dutchman ore?
There was definitely mining related activity going on there.
Roger
There was definitely mining related activity going on there.
Roger
Roger
There seems to be fairly solid evidence that there was indeed "mining related" activity in the vicinity of the Salt Flats area. I have always thought the Mexicans had a fairly substantial work camp in that area. The question that needs to be answered is "why"?
Were there mines nearby? Was the area a communication hub (and some evidence points to this) between the main camps in Marsh Valley and the mining camps in the interior of the mountains? Was the area selected because while it wasnt easily defensible, it did give several points of ready egress (Charleyboy, Squaw, Peters) if one had to leave in a hurry?
Who knows.
P
PS Might pretty full moon out there tonite. Think I'll do some bird watching...
There seems to be fairly solid evidence that there was indeed "mining related" activity in the vicinity of the Salt Flats area. I have always thought the Mexicans had a fairly substantial work camp in that area. The question that needs to be answered is "why"?
Were there mines nearby? Was the area a communication hub (and some evidence points to this) between the main camps in Marsh Valley and the mining camps in the interior of the mountains? Was the area selected because while it wasnt easily defensible, it did give several points of ready egress (Charleyboy, Squaw, Peters) if one had to leave in a hurry?
Who knows.
P
PS Might pretty full moon out there tonite. Think I'll do some bird watching...
Salt Flats and Mexican Mining
I would suggest at least two reasons why the Mexicans had a camp up on Peters Mesa at the Salt Flats where they worked the ore down one level by breaking it up and then taking it to the nearby arrastra:
1. There probably aren't a lot of places in the Supers close to the main Mexican camp in Marsh Valley where a solid rock outcroping was available for rough breaking down the ore and then operating an arrastra.
2. If the Mexicans were mining the drift mine on Peters Mesa, this location would be ideal to minimize hauling the heavy ore. Also, if a pit mine was also up on Peters, two good points for working there. Then, if there were another mine located Easterly, Peters would be a good location to support both operations.
3. The Mexicans had another camp at the North end of Bluff Springs Mountain and there was another arrastra just north of that camp, so any mining done in the Southern area was probably processed there and not up on Peters.
One last thought: Think about them having to haul water up to the arrastra to operate it, so the location must have been strategic in its location and its physical features to support the work they did there for them to carry water up to the mesa although a fairly short distance by Superstition dimensions.
Food for thought.
Roger
1. There probably aren't a lot of places in the Supers close to the main Mexican camp in Marsh Valley where a solid rock outcroping was available for rough breaking down the ore and then operating an arrastra.
2. If the Mexicans were mining the drift mine on Peters Mesa, this location would be ideal to minimize hauling the heavy ore. Also, if a pit mine was also up on Peters, two good points for working there. Then, if there were another mine located Easterly, Peters would be a good location to support both operations.
3. The Mexicans had another camp at the North end of Bluff Springs Mountain and there was another arrastra just north of that camp, so any mining done in the Southern area was probably processed there and not up on Peters.
One last thought: Think about them having to haul water up to the arrastra to operate it, so the location must have been strategic in its location and its physical features to support the work they did there for them to carry water up to the mesa although a fairly short distance by Superstition dimensions.
Food for thought.
Roger
Roger
The water issue is a valid one. If one were to work the area in the winter, then there would be (as long as the rains came) an ample supply of water in the many tanks located in the small canyons and washes near the work camp area. There may also have been small seeps in those days closer to the work camp than say the main spring down in Charleyboy.
As to whether or not there was a drift or pit mine up on Peters Mesa...I am not so sure. That area has been picked over so thoroughly by experts: the Petrasch's, Holmes, Bradford, Reser, Gassler etc... that I find it hard to beleive that all the searchers simply missed all the pits/mines/tunnels/shafts, blah blah blah that are supposed to honeycomb that particular area. I am sure the artifacts listed in Corbins book WERE found in the vicinity...but those artifacts reflect exactly what one might find in an area that was a work camp.
Course...maybe the mine WAS found there...and nobodys telling.....!!!
P
The water issue is a valid one. If one were to work the area in the winter, then there would be (as long as the rains came) an ample supply of water in the many tanks located in the small canyons and washes near the work camp area. There may also have been small seeps in those days closer to the work camp than say the main spring down in Charleyboy.
As to whether or not there was a drift or pit mine up on Peters Mesa...I am not so sure. That area has been picked over so thoroughly by experts: the Petrasch's, Holmes, Bradford, Reser, Gassler etc... that I find it hard to beleive that all the searchers simply missed all the pits/mines/tunnels/shafts, blah blah blah that are supposed to honeycomb that particular area. I am sure the artifacts listed in Corbins book WERE found in the vicinity...but those artifacts reflect exactly what one might find in an area that was a work camp.
Course...maybe the mine WAS found there...and nobodys telling.....!!!
P
old stone cabin
since Peter and Roger seem to have been to peters mesa and know the area pretty well, have either of you ever seen or heard of a old stone or rock cabin on the mesa. ther have been storys told about a rock house up there. waltz, pettresh, barkley and gasler all told of a cabin or house there.
Some people swear there is an old rock house up there but i have never found it but then i havent spent that much time there to give it a reel good search. i have seen the bare rock area just to the west of the trail where it turns south on the mesa. the rock house is suppose to have a connection to the mine. did kochara find his ore bag on that bare rock area?
Some people swear there is an old rock house up there but i have never found it but then i havent spent that much time there to give it a reel good search. i have seen the bare rock area just to the west of the trail where it turns south on the mesa. the rock house is suppose to have a connection to the mine. did kochara find his ore bag on that bare rock area?
Mark
Depending on what source you are using there are supposed to be 2-3 rock houses/caves/overhangs that are supposed to have some bearing
on the location of the LDM. While the rock house(s) itself is most likely no longer standing, there are a couple of locations up there (and I imagine other places in the Superstitions too) that may or may not be the site of an old stone foundation.
Waltz told several stories (depending on the author repeating it) about either a cave,overhang or rock house where he camped with his alleged partner. Who knows, maybe they utilized all three as a camp. It wouldnt surprise me if Waltz had multiple camps that he utilized when he worked the mine.
Rhiney Petrasch supposedly had a rock house somewhere in the middle of Peters Mesa, that was found by Walt Gassler. Then again, Petraschs rock house has also been placed down in a side canyon off of Peters Canyon.
From what I can make out, the Petrasch rock house and Gassler rock house may have been one and the same. Walter gassler said he found an old foundation down in Gasslers Wash on the west side of Peters Dome....and theorized that Waltz found his gold there and then concocted the story about a mine to throw off future searchers (not sure if I agree with old Walt on this one).
And of course, Brownie Holmes spent a lifetime combing the mountains for a rock house that was the key to the directions that his father handed down to him.
Is there an old foundation of a rock house up on Peters Mesa? There certainly have been enough rumors to that effect. Is it Brownies famous rock house? At this stage of the game, who knows.
It is my understanding that John Kochera found his saddlebag full of ore near the Salt Flats, under some brush. I am still not 100% sure I buy into that theory, but one never knows.
P
Depending on what source you are using there are supposed to be 2-3 rock houses/caves/overhangs that are supposed to have some bearing
on the location of the LDM. While the rock house(s) itself is most likely no longer standing, there are a couple of locations up there (and I imagine other places in the Superstitions too) that may or may not be the site of an old stone foundation.
Waltz told several stories (depending on the author repeating it) about either a cave,overhang or rock house where he camped with his alleged partner. Who knows, maybe they utilized all three as a camp. It wouldnt surprise me if Waltz had multiple camps that he utilized when he worked the mine.
Rhiney Petrasch supposedly had a rock house somewhere in the middle of Peters Mesa, that was found by Walt Gassler. Then again, Petraschs rock house has also been placed down in a side canyon off of Peters Canyon.
From what I can make out, the Petrasch rock house and Gassler rock house may have been one and the same. Walter gassler said he found an old foundation down in Gasslers Wash on the west side of Peters Dome....and theorized that Waltz found his gold there and then concocted the story about a mine to throw off future searchers (not sure if I agree with old Walt on this one).
And of course, Brownie Holmes spent a lifetime combing the mountains for a rock house that was the key to the directions that his father handed down to him.
Is there an old foundation of a rock house up on Peters Mesa? There certainly have been enough rumors to that effect. Is it Brownies famous rock house? At this stage of the game, who knows.
It is my understanding that John Kochera found his saddlebag full of ore near the Salt Flats, under some brush. I am still not 100% sure I buy into that theory, but one never knows.
P
peters mesa
Peter, thanks for the information about the mesa. i think the stone house i heard of is the same one gasler told about. it would be nice if somebody knew where it was or had been located , i think the house and the mine are conected somehow. the Kochara ore is interesting since it come from a place where there was evedince of a mine or at least some mining work. peters mesa is a hard place to get to. you almost need two or three days to go there and spend any time looking. its bigger than it looks on the map.
Mark
I am no expert on Peters Mesa, but I can attest to the remoteness and ruggedness of the place once one gets to the area. The "Mesa" hardly fits
a romantics defintion of the landform. One would expect a nice, fairly level area to tramp around in. Peters Mesa is hardly that. The whole place is crisscrossed with canyons, gullys, ravines, cliffs, hidden arroyos, and some of the thickest vegetation I have seen. Add to that the lack of water,
some of the mountains various array of sticker brush and the like, and one has to be either determined or nuts (or have some good info) to spend any quality time up there.
The few times I have passed through there were spent examining some of the historical areas of interest..the Salt Flats and Gasslers camps for instance.
P
I am no expert on Peters Mesa, but I can attest to the remoteness and ruggedness of the place once one gets to the area. The "Mesa" hardly fits
a romantics defintion of the landform. One would expect a nice, fairly level area to tramp around in. Peters Mesa is hardly that. The whole place is crisscrossed with canyons, gullys, ravines, cliffs, hidden arroyos, and some of the thickest vegetation I have seen. Add to that the lack of water,
some of the mountains various array of sticker brush and the like, and one has to be either determined or nuts (or have some good info) to spend any quality time up there.
The few times I have passed through there were spent examining some of the historical areas of interest..the Salt Flats and Gasslers camps for instance.
P
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Thomas Glover
- Part Timer
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 7:33 pm
- Contact:
Peter,
Come now it is not that bad. I traversed the Mesa going on two years ago. True there is very little water unless you know the tinjas, and even then maybe none. And there is the canyon/big ravine that runs along the Mesa leading to one of the nastiest short hikes/climbs in the mountains. Oh, and it is true that I have encountered more rattlesnakes in that country than anywhere else in the mountains. And that most of the flat part of the Mesa north of the Salt Lick (where it is actually flat) is strewn with rocks, boulders and cacti. True the brush along the bottom half of the Peter’s Mesa Ridge is thick and a pain in the rear. True the country is big, depressingly so – a mile from one end to the other of just the north ridge, plus another mile for the south ridge/Mesa. And that south of the Salt Lick is also a mess of ravines, cacti, sticky brush, snakes and such. But, the Salt Lick is open and flat, and there is a bit shade in the line of trees there. And the views are great.
Well, come to think of it, maybe you are right “…one has to be either determined or nuts (or have some good info) to spend any quality time up there.” The problem with the “good info.” angle is all those with “the good info.” seem to have not found much ?
Come now it is not that bad. I traversed the Mesa going on two years ago. True there is very little water unless you know the tinjas, and even then maybe none. And there is the canyon/big ravine that runs along the Mesa leading to one of the nastiest short hikes/climbs in the mountains. Oh, and it is true that I have encountered more rattlesnakes in that country than anywhere else in the mountains. And that most of the flat part of the Mesa north of the Salt Lick (where it is actually flat) is strewn with rocks, boulders and cacti. True the brush along the bottom half of the Peter’s Mesa Ridge is thick and a pain in the rear. True the country is big, depressingly so – a mile from one end to the other of just the north ridge, plus another mile for the south ridge/Mesa. And that south of the Salt Lick is also a mess of ravines, cacti, sticky brush, snakes and such. But, the Salt Lick is open and flat, and there is a bit shade in the line of trees there. And the views are great.
Well, come to think of it, maybe you are right “…one has to be either determined or nuts (or have some good info) to spend any quality time up there.” The problem with the “good info.” angle is all those with “the good info.” seem to have not found much ?
Thomas,
My biggest gripe about the area isnt the snakes...in fact I have NEVER seen one up there. Course, there might be a reason you have seen many and I have seen none.
My biggest complaint is the vegetation. With the much needed rains this past winter the Mesa in general and its sundry ravines and canyons were so choked with catclaw and other assorted sticker brush and cacti that they were for the most part impenetrable.
P
My biggest gripe about the area isnt the snakes...in fact I have NEVER seen one up there. Course, there might be a reason you have seen many and I have seen none.
My biggest complaint is the vegetation. With the much needed rains this past winter the Mesa in general and its sundry ravines and canyons were so choked with catclaw and other assorted sticker brush and cacti that they were for the most part impenetrable.
P
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Little Known Mesa
Hi Peter,
[Peter]
"The few times I have passed through there were spent examining some of the historical areas of interest..the Salt Flats and Gasslers camps for instance." Maybe the reason you "have never seen any snakes up there" is because you have only been there a "few times".
For someone who was only interested in "examining some of the historical areas of interest" you seem to know a lot about the Mesa.
Azmula,
So is your book coming out first, or Dr. Glover's? I have been buying a lot of books on ancient Mesoamerica lately, so you guys better hurry as I am running out of cash.
Some coincidence on that 1847, hmm.....
Take care,
Joe
[Peter]
"The few times I have passed through there were spent examining some of the historical areas of interest..the Salt Flats and Gasslers camps for instance." Maybe the reason you "have never seen any snakes up there" is because you have only been there a "few times".
For someone who was only interested in "examining some of the historical areas of interest" you seem to know a lot about the Mesa.
Azmula,
So is your book coming out first, or Dr. Glover's? I have been buying a lot of books on ancient Mesoamerica lately, so you guys better hurry as I am running out of cash.
Some coincidence on that 1847, hmm.....
Take care,
Joe