I don't know much about the "Spanish Race Track" and don't give it much credence. The idea that the Peraltas had the inclination to have races in the middle of the Superstitions has never excited my imagination. Adding Joaquin Murietta into the mix with the Peraltas seems like a stretch as well. Wherever you place the gold mines or camp of the Peralta's, I am sure you can find a nice straight run of flat ground nearby that could be construed as a two horse race track. Many consider this story a myth. Jim Bark believed the location to be just north of Bluff Spring Mountain in the area of the Dutchman's Trail just before it climbs to Bull Pass. Same area that Ruth's skull was found and close to Storm's Dutchman's camp. This area has been considered a Peralta main camp site by many. I consider it a little too open and flat for reasonable defense. The top of Bluff Spring Mountain seems like the best bet for such a camp. Jim Bark's cave with the cactus fiber sandals lends some support to this theory and the fortifications around it, along with the hand laid rock at Bluff Spring, doesn't hurt either. Was the top of the mountain fail-safe? The Apache were masters at rock climbing. They did not use ropes and were fearless while in this element. Their abilities in this science are well documented. It was still the most easily defended (large) campsite to be found in the mountains. The Apache would have avoided this camp as a battle site due to the difficulty of swift retreat if things went wrong. Any consideration of a posssible Peralta campsite would have to include knowledge of Apache habits, which the Peralta's were very familiar with.
If you are trying to piece together a reasonable story, you must include the Apache lifestyle. Peter and a few others are on track here in their own research.
I could, of course, be wrong.
The "Deering Comments" topic has a real propensity for wandering off the subject. Perhaps these comments belong in another discussion.
Sorry I have been out for a week. My job sent me to Orlando, FLA to present a paper on my work. I met with "body recovery" (my sfaety backup on my next trip) to finalize plans. Also picked up my first metal detector for miscellaneous use when all else failed.
I do not care much about a racetrack, unless it is an indication of what was done to pass "free time" which would be hard to find. Did the religious miners respect Sunday in the wilderness? If a track existed, it would be easier to identify than smaller landmarks or worn areas.
A large flat area is not need for a track. The track could circumnavigate a mountain or observer's ridge. Gauntlets or debris ladened paths also lead to challenging races. However, is there a worn path that is circular, or comes back upon itself?
My own research based on the discharge rolls from Ft McDowell leads me to believe the soldiers were amongst a fairly large group discharged in mid-March 1884. It would be interesting if we could somehow find out the weather conditions around that time frame and then look at a likely crossing point based upon whether the Salt was running fast or not.
About the Apache problem. By the time 1884 rolled around there simply werent any large bands roaming the Superstitions . Mangus and Chato moved their bands to San Carlos peacefuly in February 1884, and Goyathkla was still playing tag with Crook on the border. You might get a few stray renegades from San Carlos or Ft Apache in the mountains, but this threat did not seem to deter the Soldiers from entering the mountains interior.
Peter,
Geronimo was not playing tag with Crook but gathering Mexican cattle to take to Turkey Creek. He came in right after Mangus and Chato. Davis was sent to the Mexican border to wait for Geronimo and escort him to the reservation. Crook had given Geronimo permission to seek out scattered members of his band and bring them in. Stragglers continued to come in well into May of 1884. A group of (around) twenty came in on May 15.
Two soldiers would not travel through the Superstitions in 1883 or 1884 without risking death. The road from Phoenix through Florence Junction to the Silver King was well traveled and included stagecoach service. Even if you had to go west along the Salt River to get across it, you would be better off than making a trip through the Salt River Canyon, which was their original intention. Although Crook believed he had wrapped up the "Indian problem" early in 1884, it was an uneasy peace. Travel through the Salt River Canyon or the Superstitions would have been a dicey situation. Why did they need to be told the proper trail to take and how would they know exactly where to turn south?
You mentioned the story that Ely told concerning the flat top mountain. I assume you mean the mountain the Apache took the mules to after the massacre. Why do you think that story is untrue? Do you think he made up the part where it was found? Do you know that such a mountain exists, just where he said it did?
azmula wrote:Joe and Peter,
Have either of you noticed the lack of postings on this thread other than the two of you? I find the juvenile bickering back and forth is degrading to the intent of this forum. You both have a lot of relavent information to offer but you do not seem to be able to communicate it without snide, cutting remarks to the other. Why can't you take it off line as private messages to each other? My interpretation of the intent of this forum is to discuss the LDM and the lore associated with the Superstions, not as a private battle field. Several people have tried to gently request a halt to this "childish" behavior and many others have just removed this forum from their favorites list. I hope you will start contributing to a constructive forum discussion again. If not I am going to join the growing ranks of those finding new sources for discussion of our favorite subject.
You claim it is all in fun or just your way but most of us do not see it the same and you are not the only two people wishing to use the forum. Please do not take personally what I have said and stop posting legitimate discussion points. If you personally need this type of communication take it off line. Thank you.
azmula
azmula,
I have been checking the forum periodically, and must agree with your assessment of what needed to be done to improve the quality of the information being offered. The results have been truly amazing. Keep up the good work and flow of information. I will continue to stay out of the flow of conversations, except for an occaisonial short lapse of good judgement.
Your Jesuit Treasure articles are great. I look forward to the next installment.
