LDM whereabouts

[James Raymond]

I am totally new to this site so excuse my ignorance. I have read just about every thread on the site and the conclusion is that many of you have actually been in the Supes, trekked all over the place and have found Bupkus ( an old apache term). My feeling is if anyone has ever found anything up there they sure would not announce it on this website.

Second point, it has been 150 years since the dutchman passed on, in that time my guess is probably 10,000 people have tramped those hills and found nothing. Considering earthquakes, flash floods, and blasting if there ever was a mine it is under 100ft. of rock.

Third, If the Apache indians ever knew of a hidden mine, cache, or treasure, I am sure that any modern ,1940 to present indian would most certainly have brought it out by now, they are not stupid or that superstitious these days and could sure use the money.

It is a great legend, but that is all it is. Something to scare the eastern dudes with ghost tales. Every death most likely has a logical explanation, sure there are hermits probably living there that will shoot on sight anyone who gets to close to their dig, but actual manhunters who kill and decapitate, a simpler explanation is after someone WAS shot, animals tore apart the body, I've seen animals scattered after being eaten by coyotes while hunting Sorry guys I just don't buy it.

[CLD]

Don't buy it...who cares. But seriously.........who cares????!!!!!

[pippinwhitepaws]

well james, at least you show up wearing boots... :D

[James Raymond]

O'Kay , wise guy tell me how many people you actually know, not heard about that have taken gold out of those mountains. Pippin , I don't understand your comment ,"wearing boots?"

K.M.A.

[djui5]

I know a couple, personally.

Tell me why you think the LDM doesn't exist? There are some good arguments as to why it wouldn't, and I appreciate each one. Personally, I think it does, but that is my opinion based on my current knowledge of the history, etc. I see you tell about why you think it's not there anymore, and while the possibility is highly likely that someone dug it out and never told anyone, I do feel that the mine does exist and is VERY hard to find. About the hermits, well as far as I know there isn't anyone living back there these days. Also no-one has been "killed" back there recently. Most of the killing was going on during the 60's/70's when Crazy Jake was running around back there. Lastly, in reference to your Indian analogy, if the mine was near one of their sacred burial grounds they would have never dug it up, even today. Gold isn't worth that much to the Indians, even today. Ever been to Casino Arizona?

On another note I'd like to ask you a question. Have you ever hiked in the Supers? I'm just curious, not being sly at all with this question.

[James Raymond]

Please don't misinterpret what I said, I do believe the mine exists or existed at one time. I just belive over time, it has been buried as I said by either natural or human causes to the point it would be impossible to find without highly scientific land scanning devices. Second, I believe the government just might have already done that and secretly taken whatever was there. As to ever being in the mountains, yes I have been there not prospecting , just wandering around appreciating the place for what it is. A place unspoiled by man as it was meant to be. If the indians are right it could very well be a holy place, I certainly felt it to be.

As to finding it, it's a great legend, I have been following it all my life, which has been quite long. I hope it is still there, I also hope if it is, it is never found. Good hunting

[Joe Ribaudo]

James,

"....a simpler explanation is after someone WAS shot, animals tore apart the body, I've seen animals scattered after being eaten by coyotes while hunting Sorry guys I just don't buy it."

While other portions of a body will be carried away, usually buried close by, skulls are usually left pretty close to the place of death. The reasons are fairly simple.....Too big, too round and not enough meat to keep them that interested. On the other hand, they might gnaw on it a bit, trying to get to what's inside, or to tear away the surface flesh.

Domestic dogs will pick up a skull, if they can, and bring it home. Lived in Colorado for a spell, and my dogs drug home a deer skull, deposited it on the back porch. They were very proud of their find. More recently we had searched a number of days for an elderly man who disappeared in the desert. No luck, but a number of months later two large dogs brought his head into their masters front porch.

Other than the two large holes in Adolph Ruth's skull, I have not heard of any sign that it was damaged by animals.

As an aside, there are many people who visit this Forum. I would guess that many of them are interested in your opinion and conclusions. I am certainly interested and care what you have to say.

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[James Raymond]

Please don't think I was being a wise guy, I respect your opinion you are one of the most knowlegable people on this web.

I can believe Mr. Ruth was murdered, but looking at those holes I find it hard to believe they were made by gunshots, they would have had to be something like a 45-75 or a 50 cal. Also possibly by a pickaxe, but that seems improbable.
A rifled slug would have taken the whole side of the skull away. Anyway it was a long time ago. Have there been any recent murders? Is their still danger from indians? I have been told their were some killings done by someone known as"Crazy Jake" as late as the 1970's I take it the law has disposed of him.

As I said it is all great reading, a mystery of the west.