bill 
The Stone Maps
Stone maps
Joe I read and saw pic,s of some men in Texas that found a peculier rock with marking and decided to to detexed it after looking under it and finding naught . They found about 6 little catches of spanish gold bars that were buried in little holes as far out as 144 feet but they were in a special pattern in all directions from the marker rock. After finding 2 of them they sat down at home and one of them figuered out the pattern that they had been buried in. Sort of like a cross pattern. anyway have a great weekend! They didn,t get rich BUT there was enough gold to get them several 1000 dollars apiece. That will always make you smile. bill
bill stone maps
WELL JOE; remember if a trail doesn,t lead you to something then it could be leading you AWAY from something ! bill
bill 5th Stone Map Found In Utah
Someone questioned earlier on the Forum about the finding of a 5th Stone Map that was supposed to be a part of the 4 Stone Maps found in Arizona. Here is a web site with the press release dated 12-5-04 about that 5th Stone Map:
http://www.free-press-release.com/news/ ... 75654.html
There is a string of postings on the Ancient Lost Treasures forum on this topic including a posting regarding a 90 minute Public TV special that would cover the original Arizona stones plus the 5th one found in Utah. Haven't found the details on when/where that happened. Interesting that this forum had a picture posting of the 5th map, but all the posts related to that topic have been deleted. Here is that site:
http://p073.ezboard.com/fancientlosttre ... D=13.topic
FYI if you haven't seen this material.
Roger
http://www.free-press-release.com/news/ ... 75654.html
There is a string of postings on the Ancient Lost Treasures forum on this topic including a posting regarding a 90 minute Public TV special that would cover the original Arizona stones plus the 5th one found in Utah. Haven't found the details on when/where that happened. Interesting that this forum had a picture posting of the 5th map, but all the posts related to that topic have been deleted. Here is that site:
http://p073.ezboard.com/fancientlosttre ... D=13.topic
FYI if you haven't seen this material.
Roger
Thanks Roger.
That forum is where I heard about it
I inquired about the missing posts a week or so ago, and was informed that the forum was hacked a year or so ago, and a lot of posts were deleted forever.
Damm shame...
That forum is where I heard about it
I inquired about the missing posts a week or so ago, and was informed that the forum was hacked a year or so ago, and a lot of posts were deleted forever.Damm shame...
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
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Joe Ribaudo
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Comments
Late,
I noticed your comments on my drawing of the monuments my brother and I found.
Are you saying you have seen them? That would be the only way to know where they are, or were.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I noticed your comments on my drawing of the monuments my brother and I found.
Are you saying you have seen them? That would be the only way to know where they are, or were.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
The Stone Maps
Hello Joe,
I suspect you noticed the comments sometime ago.
Things must be pretty slow down there if you need to drag this old dog out from under the front porch.
Wouldn`t you rather talk about alien kidnappings in the Superstitions or black helicopters. Understand there has been a lot of stuff moved around recently. Guess all the various legions, (Black,white, etc.,) are rearranging their stashes.
In regards to the stone Maps I understand there is a very interesting place up near Horse Mesa that is close to a very old trail. Believes it leads to the Salt River, turns back and takes one to Oz,(the other). Just look out for falling houses.
Let`s see. If I remember correctly you say you do not ask a question unless you already know the answer. Let me know what you think.
Hard to believe anyone would destroy a historical artifact. Man that is tough for a tree hugger like me to accept. Must have been aliens with ray guns.
Regards,
Late 49er
I suspect you noticed the comments sometime ago.
Things must be pretty slow down there if you need to drag this old dog out from under the front porch.
Wouldn`t you rather talk about alien kidnappings in the Superstitions or black helicopters. Understand there has been a lot of stuff moved around recently. Guess all the various legions, (Black,white, etc.,) are rearranging their stashes.
In regards to the stone Maps I understand there is a very interesting place up near Horse Mesa that is close to a very old trail. Believes it leads to the Salt River, turns back and takes one to Oz,(the other). Just look out for falling houses.
Let`s see. If I remember correctly you say you do not ask a question unless you already know the answer. Let me know what you think.
Hard to believe anyone would destroy a historical artifact. Man that is tough for a tree hugger like me to accept. Must have been aliens with ray guns.
Regards,
Late 49er
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Joe Ribaudo
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Wrong Kind Of Question
Late,
I don't think I said I always know the answer. It was good to see you being coaxed out of retirement here, so I thought I should ask....something.
Truth is, I was adding some pictures and read your comment again. In this particular case, I was pretty sure of your answer. I notice you dodged the question about the monuments.
Have you seen those two monuments? If so, which direction to the "narrow gorge"....E. to W. T O N T O S?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I don't think I said I always know the answer. It was good to see you being coaxed out of retirement here, so I thought I should ask....something.
Truth is, I was adding some pictures and read your comment again. In this particular case, I was pretty sure of your answer. I notice you dodged the question about the monuments.
Have you seen those two monuments? If so, which direction to the "narrow gorge"....E. to W. T O N T O S?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
The Stone Maps
Hello Joe,
Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me first. I mean you folks really have everything you need to get where you want to go.
When and how did you figure out the coordinate on Coffee Flat Mountain?
How in the world did you figure out the cactus marker clue? You know Barry Storm really did a lot of good. He had folks talking to trees for a long time.
Good thing I deleated the 5th coordinate, you would be on the yellow brick road heading for oz by now.
I believe you indicated you uncle, Obie Stoker, thought he was on to the LDM. Did you ever find indications he was on to something very importent? And if so what were they?
Regards,
Late 49er
Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me first. I mean you folks really have everything you need to get where you want to go.
When and how did you figure out the coordinate on Coffee Flat Mountain?
How in the world did you figure out the cactus marker clue? You know Barry Storm really did a lot of good. He had folks talking to trees for a long time.
Good thing I deleated the 5th coordinate, you would be on the yellow brick road heading for oz by now.
I believe you indicated you uncle, Obie Stoker, thought he was on to the LDM. Did you ever find indications he was on to something very importent? And if so what were they?
Regards,
Late 49er
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Joe Ribaudo
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Too Tough?
Late,
Were my questions too tough? They only required a yes or no for the first one, and a direction for the second.
As for your questions......they were easy guesses.
Obie Stoker was not MY uncle, he was my mother's uncle. Other than matching up to many of the LDM clues, I dont know if there was anything "very importent" to his claim. I found nothing of importance.
Your non-answer is answer enough for me. Thanks.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Were my questions too tough? They only required a yes or no for the first one, and a direction for the second.
As for your questions......they were easy guesses.
Obie Stoker was not MY uncle, he was my mother's uncle. Other than matching up to many of the LDM clues, I dont know if there was anything "very importent" to his claim. I found nothing of importance.
Your non-answer is answer enough for me. Thanks.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
The Stone Maps
Hello Joe,
You are not the only person who ask questions and has a pretty good idea how they are going to be answered.
Your response well was expected.
You see Joe this was never about money it was about simply trying to repay a debt. Years ago a person very close to me was in those mountains and in hot time of year made a few mistakes and was in serious trouble till a kindness was shown him.
Nothing more than water and a helping hand out. That kindness created a debt that had to be repaid.
A debt I have been trying to repay for over a year.
The debt has now been cancelled.
Wouldn`t bet on getting to Oz anytime soon.
Cabo San Lucas hear I come. I am so retired.
Regards,
Late49er
You are not the only person who ask questions and has a pretty good idea how they are going to be answered.
Your response well was expected.
You see Joe this was never about money it was about simply trying to repay a debt. Years ago a person very close to me was in those mountains and in hot time of year made a few mistakes and was in serious trouble till a kindness was shown him.
Nothing more than water and a helping hand out. That kindness created a debt that had to be repaid.
A debt I have been trying to repay for over a year.
The debt has now been cancelled.
Wouldn`t bet on getting to Oz anytime soon.
Cabo San Lucas hear I come. I am so retired.
Regards,
Late49er
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Joe Ribaudo
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History
Late,
Here are a few quotes from your past history:
"But have to say the people we have selected will do a quality job and at the end of the day that is all that is really importent.
My associates are both from Georgia and we have selected an institution close to them, and actually given their efforts it is appropriate they receive recognition in their own neck of the woods.
Perhaps this history is better stored near the folks who preserved and nutured the area. Personally I am very proud of what has been done.
Hopefully we will post some material here soon that will be of interest to you."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"let`s see, if you want to understand Martin`s diary, where do we begin.
Really the first place to research is the history of Eldorado Canyon in Nevada. Eldorado Canyon is south of Las Vegas and sits on the Colorado river. This place is a very importent part of the story and understanding what went on there will help with your understanding of the tie in between the Superstitions and Virginia City. Good Luck.
Next consider the statement: "the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge." This was uttered by Martin in his first meeting with another German in the Superstitions. Guess who? Also consider why does this question also relate to the Stone Maps? Why is it that the trail begins with the heart? Consider the possibility that the LDM and the Stone Maps have always been the same thing. Different sides of the same coin sorta speak.
You have to step back and see the coin,(essence) before you can understand the LDM or the Stone Maps. The coin is the gift.
Also consider the following. If you are not ready for what is you will never see it. Folks have walked right by the truth for a 100 years. "the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge".
You folks have come a long way since February."
Considering how you came on this Forum, I would say YOU "have come a long way".
Still waiting to hear who received your "historical documents". I have seen the replies for your request to place them in Arizona, and that does not fit your claim that there was "no interest". "nutured" seems so appropriate there.
One never knows where to take you seriously. Were I to take all your stories and place them together, I doubt there is one claim that you have not contradicted at some point.
In that regard, you are no different than many on this Forum, but you have been interesting while your knowledge has been difficult for you to hide. Your shortcomings have also been difficult for you to hide.
"You see Joe this was never about money it was about simply trying to repay a debt. Years ago a person very close to me was in those mountains and in hot time of year made a few mistakes and was in serious trouble till a kindness was shown him.
Nothing more than water and a helping hand out. That kindness created a debt that had to be repaid.
A debt I have been trying to repay for over a year.
The debt has now been cancelled."
Once again, your story changes.
You're a little young to be retireing, but I wish you well in Cabo. I assume your retirement fund did not come out of the Superstitions.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
Here are a few quotes from your past history:
"But have to say the people we have selected will do a quality job and at the end of the day that is all that is really importent.
My associates are both from Georgia and we have selected an institution close to them, and actually given their efforts it is appropriate they receive recognition in their own neck of the woods.
Perhaps this history is better stored near the folks who preserved and nutured the area. Personally I am very proud of what has been done.
Hopefully we will post some material here soon that will be of interest to you."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"let`s see, if you want to understand Martin`s diary, where do we begin.
Really the first place to research is the history of Eldorado Canyon in Nevada. Eldorado Canyon is south of Las Vegas and sits on the Colorado river. This place is a very importent part of the story and understanding what went on there will help with your understanding of the tie in between the Superstitions and Virginia City. Good Luck.
Next consider the statement: "the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge." This was uttered by Martin in his first meeting with another German in the Superstitions. Guess who? Also consider why does this question also relate to the Stone Maps? Why is it that the trail begins with the heart? Consider the possibility that the LDM and the Stone Maps have always been the same thing. Different sides of the same coin sorta speak.
You have to step back and see the coin,(essence) before you can understand the LDM or the Stone Maps. The coin is the gift.
Also consider the following. If you are not ready for what is you will never see it. Folks have walked right by the truth for a 100 years. "the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge".
You folks have come a long way since February."
Considering how you came on this Forum, I would say YOU "have come a long way".
Still waiting to hear who received your "historical documents". I have seen the replies for your request to place them in Arizona, and that does not fit your claim that there was "no interest". "nutured" seems so appropriate there.
One never knows where to take you seriously. Were I to take all your stories and place them together, I doubt there is one claim that you have not contradicted at some point.
In that regard, you are no different than many on this Forum, but you have been interesting while your knowledge has been difficult for you to hide. Your shortcomings have also been difficult for you to hide.
"You see Joe this was never about money it was about simply trying to repay a debt. Years ago a person very close to me was in those mountains and in hot time of year made a few mistakes and was in serious trouble till a kindness was shown him.
Nothing more than water and a helping hand out. That kindness created a debt that had to be repaid.
A debt I have been trying to repay for over a year.
The debt has now been cancelled."
Once again, your story changes.
You're a little young to be retireing, but I wish you well in Cabo. I assume your retirement fund did not come out of the Superstitions.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
everything
Hello Joe,
Good to see you have not lost your sense of humour.
Think we will take the dragon with us. He has been a faithful servant over the years and is a bit old. Eating dutchhunters is getting to be well tiresome. Believe he should do quite well in Mexico.
Oh I will be back on occasion, but Oz is safe, the matrix is preserved and that is all that really matters. A whole new generation of gatekeepers is in place. A lot smarter than you or I. Really this side of the matrix is not such a bad place to be. I am sure you folks will really be happier here.
A lot of good people help create your side of the matrix. Bark, Ely, Storm, Glasser. They found something far more valuable than Gold in the Superstitions. They spent their lives protecting the sacred. Not a bad place to be. They were given what you try to take. Force will never touch the sacred. The Ancient ones made sure of that. The rest of us are only footnotes.
As far as taking Gold out of the Superstitions that is a no no and I would encourage you to do the right thing if you come across any either turn it over to the black legion, or the park service. Not sure there really is a difference. Next you will be blowing up monuments.
Enjoy the contradictions. The truth in those posts and beneath them is safe and secure. One might say it is hidden in caves. But you know that.
Just one more thing. Eldorado Canyon is very importent to understanding events in the Superstitions. Work it if you have the time. One might say that Eldorado Canyon is the gate that connects both sides of the Matrix. A lot of folks went through that gate.
If you ever get down look me up. Easy to spot, the house up high with the dragon, great fishing.
Take Care of Yourself.
Regards,
Late 49er
Good to see you have not lost your sense of humour.
Think we will take the dragon with us. He has been a faithful servant over the years and is a bit old. Eating dutchhunters is getting to be well tiresome. Believe he should do quite well in Mexico.
Oh I will be back on occasion, but Oz is safe, the matrix is preserved and that is all that really matters. A whole new generation of gatekeepers is in place. A lot smarter than you or I. Really this side of the matrix is not such a bad place to be. I am sure you folks will really be happier here.
A lot of good people help create your side of the matrix. Bark, Ely, Storm, Glasser. They found something far more valuable than Gold in the Superstitions. They spent their lives protecting the sacred. Not a bad place to be. They were given what you try to take. Force will never touch the sacred. The Ancient ones made sure of that. The rest of us are only footnotes.
As far as taking Gold out of the Superstitions that is a no no and I would encourage you to do the right thing if you come across any either turn it over to the black legion, or the park service. Not sure there really is a difference. Next you will be blowing up monuments.
Enjoy the contradictions. The truth in those posts and beneath them is safe and secure. One might say it is hidden in caves. But you know that.
Just one more thing. Eldorado Canyon is very importent to understanding events in the Superstitions. Work it if you have the time. One might say that Eldorado Canyon is the gate that connects both sides of the Matrix. A lot of folks went through that gate.
If you ever get down look me up. Easy to spot, the house up high with the dragon, great fishing.
Take Care of Yourself.
Regards,
Late 49er
Last edited by late49er on Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Why Go To Mexico?
Zen,
Having been to Mexico, I can't think of many reasons for returning. I would go to visit Chichen Itza, Tikal, Xe-Ha or any of the other ancient ruins of MesoAmerica, but that is all that appeals to me.
We have opted to bypass Mexico and go to Peru next year.
Machu Pichu, Cusco, the Nazca Lines and Lake Titicaca....Can't wait.
Don't really have much desire for Mexico any more. See enough of it here.
Take care,
Joe
Having been to Mexico, I can't think of many reasons for returning. I would go to visit Chichen Itza, Tikal, Xe-Ha or any of the other ancient ruins of MesoAmerica, but that is all that appeals to me.
We have opted to bypass Mexico and go to Peru next year.
Machu Pichu, Cusco, the Nazca Lines and Lake Titicaca....Can't wait.
Don't really have much desire for Mexico any more. See enough of it here.
Take care,
Joe
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Joe Ribaudo
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Will It?
All,
Interesting question was just posed by our Katiekat: "Will the stone maps lead to the gold?"
This would seem to presuppose that no gold has ever been found, using the Stone Maps. A very small number of people know, that is probably not the case. A slightly larger number suspect it.
One of people who knew, was Robert Simpson Jacob. There are a number of members of this Forum who know that. I doubt they will tell you the rest of the story.
Dave also had a very good friend who knew some of the facts. He is gone now, but Dave has told us the end of his story.
Each passing year that number dwindles as death catches up to the legend.
Any treasure ever located in the Superstitions, did not come from them, but to them. It did not come from the Peraltas, but it did come through them.
Most, if not all of that treasure came from the expedition of Juan de Grijalva. It eventually passed through the hands of a friend of the Peralta's and through them was hidden in a number of locations in the Superstition Mountains.
You will find the Grijalva name touching the legends of treasure in the Superstitions, again and again.
In time, like Azmula, I will disclose my sources.....all of them. You will never hear the entire story.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Interesting question was just posed by our Katiekat: "Will the stone maps lead to the gold?"
This would seem to presuppose that no gold has ever been found, using the Stone Maps. A very small number of people know, that is probably
not the case. A slightly larger number suspect it.One of people who knew, was Robert Simpson Jacob. There are a number of members of this Forum who know that. I doubt they will tell you the rest of the story.
Dave also had a very good friend who knew some of the facts. He is gone now, but Dave has told us the end of his story.
Each passing year that number dwindles as death catches up to the legend.
Any treasure ever located in the Superstitions, did not come from them, but to them. It did not come from the Peraltas, but it did come through them.
Most, if not all of that treasure came from the expedition of Juan de Grijalva. It eventually passed through the hands of a friend of the Peralta's and through them was hidden in a number of locations in the Superstition Mountains.
You will find the Grijalva name touching the legends of treasure in the Superstitions, again and again.
In time, like Azmula, I will disclose my sources.....all of them. You will never hear the entire story.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Grijalva/Arispe
Matthew,
The connection for the Grijalva/Grijalba treasure and it's ties to the Peralta Family centers on the area of Arispe and the Moreno Family.
I would guess that your questions should be directed to Azmula.
The Apache "siege" of Arispe in 1848 is difficult to "piece together" with a high degree of historical accuracy. I believe the effect of that raid was much less than what is generally accepted as "fact", and the ensuing decline of the city can not be blaimed, solely, on the Apache.
Apache killings in the region were a very, very small percentage of the overall mortality rate.
I am at our store, so don't take what I have said to the bank.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
The connection for the Grijalva/Grijalba treasure and it's ties to the Peralta Family centers on the area of Arispe and the Moreno Family.
I would guess that your questions should be directed to Azmula.
The Apache "siege" of Arispe in 1848 is difficult to "piece together" with a high degree of historical accuracy. I believe the effect of that raid was much less than what is generally accepted as "fact", and the ensuing decline of the city can not be blaimed, solely, on the Apache.
Apache killings in the region were a very, very small percentage of the overall mortality rate.
I am at our store, so don't take what I have said to the bank.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Bruise?
Matthew,
Not sure why you feel bruised, but anything is liable to happen while I am flailing about trying to put together a simple answer.
If you are referring to the "Azmula" comment, knowing that the two of you are good friends and believing that Azmula has done his homework on the subject, I think he would be the one best qualified to give you the straight scoop. Actually I noticed he was on the site earlier.
You are correct, of course, about contributing factors being involved in the demise of the area. Epidemics, high infant mortality, endemic disease and the Apache all played a part. The psychological stress from the Apache, mainly, and the inability to support themselves from the land, also primarily because of the Apache, were undoubtably the major problems.
An interesting side note, is that the widows in the region had an unusually high mortality rate, for the age group, as well.
When it comes to my "friends" I keep almost nothing "close to (my) vest.
If you can find such a person, they will assure you that's true. I trust them to keep my secrets.....not always to my benefit.
I have had so many "friends", on this site alone, who were reporting everything I have told them to others, that it is almost a physical pain.
I am aware of who those "friends" are or were, and stopped telling them anythng of importance.
Like you, I have not alway been dealt with kindly by those who professed friendship. Not always easy to seperate the good from the bad and there are a lot of bad seeds in our hobby.
Nzogo nandago,
Joe Ribaudo
Not sure why you feel bruised, but anything is liable to happen while I am flailing about trying to put together a simple answer.
If you are referring to the "Azmula" comment, knowing that the two of you are good friends and believing that Azmula has done his homework on the subject, I think he would be the one best qualified to give you the straight scoop. Actually I noticed he was on the site earlier.
You are correct, of course, about contributing factors being involved in the demise of the area. Epidemics, high infant mortality, endemic disease and the Apache all played a part. The psychological stress from the Apache, mainly, and the inability to support themselves from the land, also primarily because of the Apache, were undoubtably the major problems.
An interesting side note, is that the widows in the region had an unusually high mortality rate, for the age group, as well.
When it comes to my "friends" I keep almost nothing "close to (my) vest.
If you can find such a person, they will assure you that's true. I trust them to keep my secrets.....not always to my benefit.
I have had so many "friends", on this site alone, who were reporting everything I have told them to others, that it is almost a physical pain.
I am aware of who those "friends" are or were, and stopped telling them anythng of importance.
Like you, I have not alway been dealt with kindly by those who professed friendship. Not always easy to seperate the good from the bad and there are a lot of bad seeds in our hobby.
Nzogo nandago,
Joe Ribaudo
Juan de Grijalva
I need some help. When speaking of the Expedition of Juan de Grijalva and the Treasure of Juan de Grijalva, are we talking about Juan de Grijalva (1489-1527) the conquistador who is credited with being one of the first to explore the shores of Mexico?
Thanks in advance,
Garry
Thanks in advance,
Garry
The Stone Maps
So if the Peraltas were hiding Grijalva treasure in the Superstions, does that mean that the were not mining in the Superstitions? It does not seem logical to dig native gold out and put other gold in.
murphy
Some folks WISH there was no Mexican mining activities in the Superstitions. If that were the case, it would fit their theories on what went on in the mountains to a tee.
However, evidence that there was Mexican mining done and that gold was indeed taken OUT of the mountains after being mined is simply overwhelming.
Sorry guys.
However, evidence that there was Mexican mining done and that gold was indeed taken OUT of the mountains after being mined is simply overwhelming.
Sorry guys.
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Joe Ribaudo
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It's all theory
Garry,
"I need some help. When speaking of the Expedition of Juan de Grijalva and the Treasure of Juan de Grijalva, are we talking about Juan de Grijalva (1489-1527) the conquistador who is credited with being one of the first to explore the shores of Mexico?"
That is correct. The historical record of that expedition is an interesting read. For a treasure hunter, there is something in the account that stands out.....a bit.
Murphy,
"So if the Peraltas were hiding Grijalva treasure in the Superstions, does that mean that the were not mining in the Superstitions? It does not seem logical to dig native gold out and put other gold in."
It would be logical if they had worked the mines out years before and needed a hiding place for a treasure.
Peter,
"Some folks WISH there was no Mexican mining activities in the Superstitions. If that were the case, it would fit their theories on what went on in the mountains to a tee."
Don't know who "some folks" are, but I have not met a single Dutch Hunter who thinks there was no Spanish presence in the Superstitions. Anyone you could name who espouses that theory?
"However, evidence that there was Mexican mining done and that gold was indeed taken OUT of the mountains after being mined is simply overwhelming."
Most of the "overwhelming" evidence is popular "stories". While I don't disagree with the Spanish/Mexicans in the Superstitions, the evidence of native gold in the mountains seems slim, at best. A good many modern-day ore samples were found right where the finder dropped it.
I believe most of us are guilty of building our theories based on little or no evidence concerning what we "wish" happened. A prime case can be found in those who like to say that Adolph Ruth.....found nothing. That theory is based on nothing more than believing he could not have reached the place/area where we/you believe the LDM is located.
It could be true.....and it could be false. Pretty hard to prove either side of the argument.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
"I need some help. When speaking of the Expedition of Juan de Grijalva and the Treasure of Juan de Grijalva, are we talking about Juan de Grijalva (1489-1527) the conquistador who is credited with being one of the first to explore the shores of Mexico?"
That is correct. The historical record of that expedition is an interesting read. For a treasure hunter, there is something in the account that stands out.....a bit.
Murphy,
"So if the Peraltas were hiding Grijalva treasure in the Superstions, does that mean that the were not mining in the Superstitions? It does not seem logical to dig native gold out and put other gold in."
It would be logical if they had worked the mines out years before and needed a hiding place for a treasure.
Peter,
"Some folks WISH there was no Mexican mining activities in the Superstitions. If that were the case, it would fit their theories on what went on in the mountains to a tee."
Don't know who "some folks" are, but I have not met a single Dutch Hunter who thinks there was no Spanish presence in the Superstitions. Anyone you could name who espouses that theory?
"However, evidence that there was Mexican mining done and that gold was indeed taken OUT of the mountains after being mined is simply overwhelming."
Most of the "overwhelming" evidence is popular "stories". While I don't disagree with the Spanish/Mexicans in the Superstitions, the evidence of native gold in the mountains seems slim, at best. A good many modern-day ore samples were found right where the finder dropped it.
I believe most of us are guilty of building our theories based on little or no evidence concerning what we "wish" happened. A prime case can be found in those who like to say that Adolph Ruth.....found nothing. That theory is based on nothing more than believing he could not have reached the place/area where we/you believe the LDM is located.
It could be true.....and it could be false. Pretty hard to prove either side of the argument.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
Mexican Mining in The Superstitions
While I was in Phoenix for the 2005 Lost Dutchman Rendezvous, I got to spend about an hour of quality discussion time with Ron Feldman at the OK Corral. He was gracious enough to give me a copy of the archaeological report that was prepared by the archaeologists that he was required to hire during his excavation of the Mexican mine near Iron Moutain. The report is titled "Archaeological Monitoring of Debris Fill Removal From An Historical Mine Adit, TNF-03-12-03-679, Rogers Spring, Superstition Wilderness, Tonto National Forest, Pinal County, Arizona", that was published on June 14, 2005 and revised September 28, 2005, by Erik Steinbach and Glen E. Rice of Rio Salado Archaeology, L.L.C. The report writers concluded that the mine was of Mexican or Spanish origins and predates 1860 and could predate 1810.
Tom Kollenborn in his Kollenborn's Chronicles series of articles in the Apache Junction newspaper dated October 10, 2005, writes the article "Mexican Mining in the Superstitions" covering Ron Feldman's dig and concludes that it is Mexican in origin. He also touches on a number of other evidences of Mexican mining the the Superstitions and Goldfield areas.
Anyone wanting to claim today that the Mexicans were not mining in the Superstitions stands on shaky grounds.
Roger
Tom Kollenborn in his Kollenborn's Chronicles series of articles in the Apache Junction newspaper dated October 10, 2005, writes the article "Mexican Mining in the Superstitions" covering Ron Feldman's dig and concludes that it is Mexican in origin. He also touches on a number of other evidences of Mexican mining the the Superstitions and Goldfield areas.
Anyone wanting to claim today that the Mexicans were not mining in the Superstitions stands on shaky grounds.
Roger