I have been reading this forum for a while now and have been impressed with the questions and answers. I went back and read all of the old posts and have to say this forum has a lot of good information and ideas. I work in the mining business and was drawn to the subject of Waltz's gold. I understand gold from Waltz's death was made in jewelry and some sample of the ore in it's original form still exists. I was most intrested in the work that T.E.Glover did on the ore comprason of Waltz's gold and several mine samples as well as other gold samples taken in Arizona. I read Mr. Glovers book The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz Part I The Golden Dream, and the chapter on his ore testing. In his book Mr. Glover states the gold from Waltz death was assayed and the assayer said the gold had not come from any source he had ever seen.
An assay of gold for sale in 1890 would not cover all the minerology of the gold being assayed. It would cover the purity, and value based on its ratio of gold to quartz matrix. If enough waste rock was present with the gold the assayer would in most cases identify the type of deposit the gold formed in.
In the case of Waltz's gold this would be most important. My questions to this forum and Mr. Glover is, did this assay report survive and if it did, where is it today? Mr. Glover did a remarkable job with his ore testing as written in his book. The results he published were fairly generic tho. A little bit about the type of quartz and a comparison of Waltz gold to the other samples similarity to minerals, matrix and inclusion.
I would be interested in the mineral content of the Waltz death gold and if Mr. Glover determined what specific type of gold deposit Waltz's gold came from.
I tried to locate the 1890 Waltz gold assay report and after being led on several dead ends came upon the name Daniel Horner who is supposed to live somewhere in Yavapai county, Arizona. I have been unable to find this person. Does anyone know Daniel Horner and how to get in touch with him. I am not after anyones secrets , my intrest is in the type of gold deposit and minerology of the Waltz gold.
Would Mr. Glover be open to talking a little more about his gold testing or are the details a confidential issue?
Thanks to all for listening.
Tulare
Waltz's gold.
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Thomas Glover
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Tulare,
I cannot provide the details of the mineral content at present as I am in Southern California and I do not have access to my data. However, when I return (after April 1st) I will share many of the details if you wish. I will not share all of them for two reasons: i) all Dutch Hunters have certain information that they keep to themselves; and ii) if all the details were known someone, like Crazy Jake in the past, could doctor ore to match the Dutchman ore and easily use that information for fraud. It would not be hard to do if one knew how.
As for the assay report, to my knowledge it has not survived. The comments in the book re: what the assayer said were oral transmitions from Dick or Brownie Holmes and on. The assayer was reportedly Joe Porterie. Porterie had been an assayer at the Vulture; he was well known and respected in frontier Arizona. He had seen and worked with gold ores from the Vulture, the Bradshaws, etc. Any comments he made about the Waltz/Holmes ore being different from, say, Vulture ore would have been based on his having personally known that ore.
As for the type of gold deposit, that is one of the big questions. I have my ideas, but not having found the mine I cannot say they are correct.
Thomas
I cannot provide the details of the mineral content at present as I am in Southern California and I do not have access to my data. However, when I return (after April 1st) I will share many of the details if you wish. I will not share all of them for two reasons: i) all Dutch Hunters have certain information that they keep to themselves; and ii) if all the details were known someone, like Crazy Jake in the past, could doctor ore to match the Dutchman ore and easily use that information for fraud. It would not be hard to do if one knew how.
As for the assay report, to my knowledge it has not survived. The comments in the book re: what the assayer said were oral transmitions from Dick or Brownie Holmes and on. The assayer was reportedly Joe Porterie. Porterie had been an assayer at the Vulture; he was well known and respected in frontier Arizona. He had seen and worked with gold ores from the Vulture, the Bradshaws, etc. Any comments he made about the Waltz/Holmes ore being different from, say, Vulture ore would have been based on his having personally known that ore.
As for the type of gold deposit, that is one of the big questions. I have my ideas, but not having found the mine I cannot say they are correct.
Thomas
Waltz gold.
Thomas Glover,
Thank you for your reply. I would appreciate any information you felt you could provide without violating any confidence or secrets. I complete understand about certain information and how someone could use it to ways to fraud someone. That seems to of happened a lot in the past and puts a shadow over the whole story, the good and the bad.
I don't know if this assay report has survived or not. I tried to look in public records but that was a dead end. I had some names of people who might know where the report was but another dead end. Then I looked for some of the people who were involved in the assay, the Portere's, Holmes and Goldmans, all led down dead ends. The name of Daniel Horton came up in the searching as a good possibility but another dead end.
The assay report would be of value because it would not just confirm the value of the ore but assayers often noted the type of deposit and this could be a clue to the mine or area of geology the gold came from.
I have a sizeable collection of gold samples taken from different mines in Arizona, Nevada and California some date back to the gold rush era. All of the samples have been assayed and some have had mineral analysis done on them. It would be interesting to know if any of the ones with minerology reports closely match Dutchman ore. I don't know if you would be intrested in comparing the reports with mineralogy to your findings of Waltz gold. There again it may cross that line of certain information Dutch hunters keep to themselves. Anyway thank you again for your reply and anything you feel you could tell would be appreciated.
Tulare
Thank you for your reply. I would appreciate any information you felt you could provide without violating any confidence or secrets. I complete understand about certain information and how someone could use it to ways to fraud someone. That seems to of happened a lot in the past and puts a shadow over the whole story, the good and the bad.
I don't know if this assay report has survived or not. I tried to look in public records but that was a dead end. I had some names of people who might know where the report was but another dead end. Then I looked for some of the people who were involved in the assay, the Portere's, Holmes and Goldmans, all led down dead ends. The name of Daniel Horton came up in the searching as a good possibility but another dead end.
The assay report would be of value because it would not just confirm the value of the ore but assayers often noted the type of deposit and this could be a clue to the mine or area of geology the gold came from.
I have a sizeable collection of gold samples taken from different mines in Arizona, Nevada and California some date back to the gold rush era. All of the samples have been assayed and some have had mineral analysis done on them. It would be interesting to know if any of the ones with minerology reports closely match Dutchman ore. I don't know if you would be intrested in comparing the reports with mineralogy to your findings of Waltz gold. There again it may cross that line of certain information Dutch hunters keep to themselves. Anyway thank you again for your reply and anything you feel you could tell would be appreciated.
Tulare
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Thomas Glover
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Joeseph Porterie - Photographs
If you would like to locate some Joeseph Porterie related photo's go to Sharlot Hall Museum records in Prescott and access the following historical photographs:
Call # HP SHM PB-81, F-5, I-5P This is a photo of four unidentified men at the entrance to J.A. Porterie Assayer office in the 1920's.
Call # HP SHM PB-146, F-21/22 These are 23 images from the Fred Towne Collection. Individuals in the photo's include Hortense Anna Porterie.
Call # HP SHM PB-150, F-14, I-12/17 These 7 photo's include Hortense Porterie, Henry Porterie, John Porterie, and a Porterie Family shot.
Roger
Call # HP SHM PB-81, F-5, I-5P This is a photo of four unidentified men at the entrance to J.A. Porterie Assayer office in the 1920's.
Call # HP SHM PB-146, F-21/22 These are 23 images from the Fred Towne Collection. Individuals in the photo's include Hortense Anna Porterie.
Call # HP SHM PB-150, F-14, I-12/17 These 7 photo's include Hortense Porterie, Henry Porterie, John Porterie, and a Porterie Family shot.
Roger