Stone maps

[bill711]

Joe; I was reading the whimperings and whinings in the old forum when you asked where is the documents on the early day arizona. I wrote to you that they were removed from aspie mexi. to Hermillo mexi. I was throwing you a BONE. You came at me like a large mouthed BARRACUDA and savaged me by demanding where,when,what time,book,page no.,paraghraph no. etcetra. Now that I have read all there is to read on the pages, I will answer you. About 20 or 30 years ago I read the story about reavis who married the paralta girl and tried to steal half of arizona by chicanry. The defense went to aspie to check the records, they couldn,t find them. After much ado and paying the proper bribes, They were sent to Hermillo mexi. After much stalling, they finally paid the bribes and were alloud to see and check the records. The records were all there BUT the one dealing with the land deeds looked like it was changed. The defense came back later with a writting expert and he determined that the recordes had been charged dealing with the deed that Reivis had. Also it was a newly changed affair. Due to this Reivis lost his case. I do not remember if the church or the clerk had them. BUT someone could find where they went to prob. It,s a starting point. I gave the 1847 as a time line, with new mexi. The americanization of new mexi. actually began 10 years before Hearny officially took charge. Fremont and Marcy were through several times before Hearny came on the scene. Many wealthy older new mexi.s closed and hid there mines. Some only continued to work only there wealthiest mines. There were rumers arif that they would lose all their wealth when the americans took over. Some of them fled to old mexi. check the patina on the carvings on the rocks it should be the same color of the old by this time, If the rocks were in the sun they will bleach out, the buried parts will be dark. The letters should be the same color if original. You cannot fake the patina. Have you ever seen a arrow head? The paralta,s started to mine in the goldfield area BUT moved to the mountains where the richer mines were. BILL MINOR; found a placer deposit by a big clif that was shaped like a ship,s bowe and a needle rock near by. The indians got after him and he got out of there. He quite running when he got to california. He was to lead the peeples party back it. But lead them all to hell and gone until the miners were ready to hang his ass. Some of the party talked them out of it. ONE of the miners pointed to a tall spere and cried there,s Miner,s needle. Acording to this story this spere had been called SOMBERO Peak. It,s on the south side of the mountain,s. ALSO the peeples party had passed over some of the richest gold fields in Arizona. I think the 2nd tripe is where peeples got his due. WAGGONER MAP; Was a stage couch driver, He had a habit of oicking up a lunger who would go walking into the mountains. This went on for several years. ON about the 3rd. tipe the lunger offered to pay for the ride out that the driver had been giving him, fact is he paid him for all the tripes he had given him free rides. He turned the lunger down at first but he insisted that he had money now and would be a paying rider now so he took his money. He notice the lunger kept carrying a bigger bag. He would meet him at the trail into the moutains about every 3 days. He noticed that the bag that the lunger carried out seemed to be heavy when he put it aboard. AFTER; 2-3 tears the lunger was there with his suit case. He stopped and got down to help the lunger with his bag and it was real heavy. When they were aboard he commented on how heavy the bag was. The lunger told him he had come upon a rich gold ledge and had been taking gold out all the time. He told Wagner that he was healed up on his lung problem and he was going back east a wealthy man. He told Wagner that since he had always been good to him he would show him the gold and draw him a map to the ledge. Wagoner looked for the next 20-30 years and never found the ledge. If Wagoner Knew where the ledge was WHY would he need or keep a map around him??? ROSE; He got his story mixed up with another dutchman who was a shoe or soapmaker, Who had made a trip into the 4 peaks area, The dutchman went into the 4 peaks with 2 frenchmen where they found gold BUT were attacked by indians, only the dutchman got away. Rose got the map from him and said he found a pocket of gold about 20,000 dollars worth. It wasn,t much he said, It seems like alot for the time to me??? Jacob Waltz; What did he do with his time?? WELL one thing he went on treasure hunts, looking for outlaw loot that wasn,t recovered. It had his pic. with his name below him. He was sitting on a camp stool, He had long white beard and hair smoking a pipe. The pic. was taken sometime in the 1880,s I suspect. It was a interesting story. NO it did not say the dutchman of the of the lost mine fame. Joe these are some of the story,s I read over 20 years ago. They were old stories then from the 20,s or 30,s I suspect. Thank,s Bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

bill711

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:42 am

[Quote]
"Joe; If you just have to kill someone, make sure it,s a shrieking liberal. The church records were moved to Hermiliso. Excuse the spelling. The u.s. I think took possession of new mexican territory in 1847. Thank,s Bill"

Bill,

This is my response to your comments on "the church records were moved to Hermiliso" portion of your post.

[Joe]

"What records are you speaking of as being moved? Which church were they taken from and what church received them in Hermosillo, Sonora?"

You than said:

Joe; I was reading the whimperings and whinings in the old forum when you asked where is the documents on the early day arizona. I wrote to you that they were removed from aspie mexi. to Hermillo mexi. I was throwing you a BONE. You came at me like a large mouthed BARRACUDA and savaged me by demanding where,when,what time,book,page no.,paraghraph no. etcetra. (emphasis in bold by Joe)

I should have realized what you were talking about at once. I missed the part in your original post where you said "they were removed from aspie". My apolgies, sir. I fear my memory and abilities of reason are fading fast. Upon rereading my questions, however, I find your response (emphasized in bold) to be slightly hysterical, but not totally unreasonable considering my past history. You are not the first to read a little more into what I have said than what I have actually written. I admit that on occassion my posts may require a little "reading between the lines".

I liked your entire story on the history of the LDM and found little to find fault with. You seem to have your facts well documented and in order.
I must, however, vehemently disagree with the most important "fact" in your post. Although Jacob Waltz had a full beard, it was not long.

"He was rather a stocky figure astride the burro, his shoulders thick, as were his upper arms, and his large hands were those of a working man. His beard and mustache, once brown but now streaked with gray, were closely cropped, and both his shoes and his clothes were clean." I find the source for that description credible. What do you think?

I am not sure that he smoked a pipe, but I will not pursue that line of discussion, thinking it might be too provoking.

I hope that this will bring us back to the point where I have welcomed you twice, once in a private message and once publicly. Perhaps we can start over from that point.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo