Jenkins' Lost Lode. 
Jenkins' lost load
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Joe Ribaudo
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CONFUSED?
Redison,
As I said, "I think I know, but perhaps I am wrong". Since you have confirmed that you were referring to the Jim Hatt pamphlet, I will clear up why I may have been somewhat confused by your statements.
You said:
"I just purchased this book at the old Goldfield Ghosttown today. I have read a number of books on the subject of lost mines in the superstitions that were much more lenghty, and didn't contain 1/10th the information. It's about time the public got the straight story on something! I'll be looking foreward to future releases from this author!"
While I admit there are a few books out there which are really just short novels, there is nothing (that I know of) which does not contain a great deal more information than Jim Hatt's pamphlet. While it is interesting, it
does not contain one ounce of information that will lead anyone to anything of value. Anyone who thinks that Mr. Hatt or Clay Worst would make public anything of value, prior to checking it out "seven ways from Sunday" is a fool.
The greatest value to be found in the pamphlet is the signatures of the two men on the #1 copy of the first edition. They are both part of the history of the Superstition Mountains and the LDM. As the owner of that
#1 copy, I feel safe in making that comment. I did not purchase it for the "information" it contained and thus, have received my money's worth.
I don't believe Dr. Glover will ever be looking over his shoulder wondering who is nipping at his literary heels.
I am happy you received such a wealth of information from the work, as I want both men to reap the greatest reward possible. They have payed their dues and then some.
One last thing, I payed one hell of a lot less for Gene Reynold's CD, "Borrego 13" and can assure you there is "ten times" the information in that product (value wise) than your favorite pamphlet. I would have payed more for either item.
Perhaps others, who may have purchased both, would care to comment on their worth. So far, the only thing I have seen, other than your own comments, deal with "Borrego 13".
All of the above is pure opinion, so I could, of course, be wrong.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
As I said, "I think I know, but perhaps I am wrong". Since you have confirmed that you were referring to the Jim Hatt pamphlet, I will clear up why I may have been somewhat confused by your statements.
You said:
"I just purchased this book at the old Goldfield Ghosttown today. I have read a number of books on the subject of lost mines in the superstitions that were much more lenghty, and didn't contain 1/10th the information. It's about time the public got the straight story on something! I'll be looking foreward to future releases from this author!"
While I admit there are a few books out there which are really just short novels, there is nothing (that I know of) which does not contain a great deal more information than Jim Hatt's pamphlet. While it is interesting, it
does not contain one ounce of information that will lead anyone to anything of value. Anyone who thinks that Mr. Hatt or Clay Worst would make public anything of value, prior to checking it out "seven ways from Sunday" is a fool.
The greatest value to be found in the pamphlet is the signatures of the two men on the #1 copy of the first edition. They are both part of the history of the Superstition Mountains and the LDM. As the owner of that
#1 copy, I feel safe in making that comment. I did not purchase it for the "information" it contained and thus, have received my money's worth.
I don't believe Dr. Glover will ever be looking over his shoulder wondering who is nipping at his literary heels.
I am happy you received such a wealth of information from the work, as I want both men to reap the greatest reward possible. They have payed their dues and then some.One last thing, I payed one hell of a lot less for Gene Reynold's CD, "Borrego 13" and can assure you there is "ten times" the information in that product (value wise) than your favorite pamphlet. I would have payed more for either item.
Perhaps others, who may have purchased both, would care to comment on their worth. So far, the only thing I have seen, other than your own comments, deal with "Borrego 13".
All of the above is pure opinion, so I could, of course, be wrong.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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That's A Start
Redison,
That's a good start, but I have to assume you have not read the better works on the subject of the LDM. If you are interested in the history that surrounds the Superstition's and the LDM, you should read a few more books.
Don't mean to sound like a smart-ass, but your statement did not leave much room for interpretation.
Respectfully,
Joe
That's a good start, but I have to assume you have not read the better works on the subject of the LDM. If you are interested in the history that surrounds the Superstition's and the LDM, you should read a few more books.
Don't mean to sound like a smart-ass, but your statement did not leave much room for interpretation.
Respectfully,
Joe
Definition of "INFORMATION"
Joe wrote:
"While I admit there are a few books out there which are really just short novels, there is nothing (that I know of) which does not contain a great deal more information than Jim Hatt's pamphlet."
I guess that would depend on what you call "information".
R. Edison
"While I admit there are a few books out there which are really just short novels, there is nothing (that I know of) which does not contain a great deal more information than Jim Hatt's pamphlet."
I guess that would depend on what you call "information".
R. Edison
Last edited by redison on Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superstitions
R. ,
If you have completed that much reading then you should realize that once you enter the Superstitions you are on your own. There are many opinions and theories written, but most are not.
Good Luck,
Bandit
If you have completed that much reading then you should realize that once you enter the Superstitions you are on your own. There are many opinions and theories written, but most are not.
Good Luck,
Bandit
Thanks for your response Bandit.
In all fairness I have not really completed "THAT MUCH" reading on the subject. I guess you might say I have merely scratched the surface. I do however know the difference between quality material and information, and run of the mill pulp and fiction when I see it.
Joe,
BTW: I would hesitate to call a booklet with a glossy gover and full page glossy color photos a phamplet. My experience with printing is that you would be looking at somewhere around $75.00 per page setup fees to print the first copy. You might be surprised to find that if you check with the Miner's Find Giftshop in the Ghosttown where I bought my copy, the "phamplet" as you call it, is outselling every other book on the shelf by a margin of 5 or 6 to 1.
I understand that the first signed and numbered copy sold for over $200.00 and the #2 copy brought $245.00. I have a feeling that I am not the only person to recognize "Information" and quality when I see it.
Respectfully, still awaiting your response to my earlier post.
R. Edison
In all fairness I have not really completed "THAT MUCH" reading on the subject. I guess you might say I have merely scratched the surface. I do however know the difference between quality material and information, and run of the mill pulp and fiction when I see it.
Joe,
BTW: I would hesitate to call a booklet with a glossy gover and full page glossy color photos a phamplet. My experience with printing is that you would be looking at somewhere around $75.00 per page setup fees to print the first copy. You might be surprised to find that if you check with the Miner's Find Giftshop in the Ghosttown where I bought my copy, the "phamplet" as you call it, is outselling every other book on the shelf by a margin of 5 or 6 to 1.
I understand that the first signed and numbered copy sold for over $200.00 and the #2 copy brought $245.00. I have a feeling that I am not the only person to recognize "Information" and quality when I see it.
Respectfully, still awaiting your response to my earlier post.
R. Edison
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Joe Ribaudo
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Das Pamphlet
Redison,
I am getting forgetful, and often find it difficult to come up with a word I have used from a very early age, and yet there are few people, that I personally know, my age and with my education who understand the written and spoken word better than I do. At the age of five, I would bring home six or seven books a week from the library and read them all.
"Jenkins' Lost Lode" ia a pamphlet in every sense of the word. It could be created with any photo quality printer and a stapler. The fact that it is a pamphlet does not add or detract from the value of the contents. If you would prefer to call it a "booklet", that would not be inappropriate.
I don't know how you would know the price paid for the #2 copy, unless you were the buyer or know the buyer, but if they paid $245. they paid more than the #1 copy sold for.
As for it "outselling every other book on the shelf by a margin of 5 or 6 to 1.", it would be interesting to know how you came by that information. The fact that the other books on the "shelf" have been around for some time, and just about everyone who is interested, has already bought them, just might have something to do with your claim.
"I understand that the first signed and numbered copy sold for over $200.00 and the #2 copy brought $245.00. I have a feeling that I am not the only person to recognize "Information" and quality when I see it."
Since those copies were sold to people who had not seen the contents, I can't imagine how your statement has any merit. As I mentioned before, the signatures of Jim Hatt and Clay Worst on the numbered copies was
the only thing that convinced me to place a bid.
Despite the letter and "first hand" accounts about Bill Jenkin's find, it remains, just another story. Being the "Postmaster of Tortilla Flat, AZ" or the President of the United States does not mean you won't tell a story now and again.
I will consider your other question as soon as I locate the eight missing pages of Mr. Hatt's pamphlet. There are actually five sheets of standard 8 1/2" x 11" paper folded in half and stapled in the middle. That creates ten pages to the entire pamphlet. The "cover" is two sided glossy photo paper of good quality. The rest are a good weight copy paper.
Three of the pages (2,3 and 4) are the "letter". Five of the pages are pictures. Two of the pages are maps, one of which has been around a long time. That means that four of the ten pages contain new "information". The rest is opinion, history and fill.
Some readers will find that much "new information" a bit taxing. Others will be impressed with the "weight" of that "information". I would think that every serious researcher should have a copy at hand. I am fortunate enough to have three.
Respectfully,
Joe
I am getting forgetful, and often find it difficult to come up with a word I have used from a very early age, and yet there are few people, that I personally know, my age and with my education who understand the written and spoken word better than I do. At the age of five, I would bring home six or seven books a week from the library and read them all.
"Jenkins' Lost Lode" ia a pamphlet in every sense of the word. It could be created with any photo quality printer and a stapler. The fact that it is a pamphlet does not add or detract from the value of the contents. If you would prefer to call it a "booklet", that would not be inappropriate.
I don't know how you would know the price paid for the #2 copy, unless you were the buyer or know the buyer, but if they paid $245. they paid more than the #1 copy sold for.
As for it "outselling every other book on the shelf by a margin of 5 or 6 to 1.", it would be interesting to know how you came by that information. The fact that the other books on the "shelf" have been around for some time, and just about everyone who is interested, has already bought them, just might have something to do with your claim.
"I understand that the first signed and numbered copy sold for over $200.00 and the #2 copy brought $245.00. I have a feeling that I am not the only person to recognize "Information" and quality when I see it."
Since those copies were sold to people who had not seen the contents, I can't imagine how your statement has any merit. As I mentioned before, the signatures of Jim Hatt and Clay Worst on the numbered copies was
the only thing that convinced me to place a bid.
Despite the letter and "first hand" accounts about Bill Jenkin's find, it remains, just another story. Being the "Postmaster of Tortilla Flat, AZ" or the President of the United States does not mean you won't tell a story now and again.
I will consider your other question as soon as I locate the eight missing pages of Mr. Hatt's pamphlet. There are actually five sheets of standard 8 1/2" x 11" paper folded in half and stapled in the middle. That creates ten pages to the entire pamphlet. The "cover" is two sided glossy photo paper of good quality. The rest are a good weight copy paper.
Three of the pages (2,3 and 4) are the "letter". Five of the pages are pictures. Two of the pages are maps, one of which has been around a long time. That means that four of the ten pages contain new "information". The rest is opinion, history and fill.
Some readers will find that much "new information" a bit taxing. Others will be impressed with the "weight" of that "information". I would think that every serious researcher should have a copy at hand. I am fortunate enough to have three.
Respectfully,
Joe
Joe,
You wrote:
"Since those copies were sold to people who had not seen the contents, I can't imagine how your statement has any merit. As I mentioned before, the signatures of Jim Hatt and Clay Worst on the numbered copies was
the only thing that convinced me to place a bid."
Well you should be happy then. So what's your complaint?
R Edison
You wrote:
"Since those copies were sold to people who had not seen the contents, I can't imagine how your statement has any merit. As I mentioned before, the signatures of Jim Hatt and Clay Worst on the numbered copies was
the only thing that convinced me to place a bid."
Well you should be happy then. So what's your complaint?
R Edison
Last edited by redison on Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Bait?
Redison,
You said:
"Wouldn't you just love to know the details about the sale of copy #2! "
Not in the least. To a collector, considering the product, copy #2 is of little value. If there were eight more pages in the second copy, I would keep quiet about it.
The product was advertised and sold as: "SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION COPY #1 OF 50 NUMBERED AND SIGNED COPIES". If copy #2 has more pages, or is different in any substantial way, there is a problem. Does the word "fraud" have the same meaning for you, as it does for me?
If you are not Jim Hatt, you might want to talk to him, before continuing this conversation.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
You said:
"Wouldn't you just love to know the details about the sale of copy #2! "
Not in the least. To a collector, considering the product, copy #2 is of little value. If there were eight more pages in the second copy, I would keep quiet about it.
The product was advertised and sold as: "SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION COPY #1 OF 50 NUMBERED AND SIGNED COPIES". If copy #2 has more pages, or is different in any substantial way, there is a problem. Does the word "fraud" have the same meaning for you, as it does for me?
If you are not Jim Hatt, you might want to talk to him, before continuing this conversation.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Sight Unseen
Redison,
"Now why would make a ststement like the one above without any mention of the full refund offer you received with your sight unseen copy?"
The fact that the refund was offered, after the bidding was completed, has nothing to do with the fact that the bids were made without seeing the contents.
Understanding what you are reading does not seem to be something that has a high priority these days.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
"Now why would make a ststement like the one above without any mention of the full refund offer you received with your sight unseen copy?"
The fact that the refund was offered, after the bidding was completed, has nothing to do with the fact that the bids were made without seeing the contents.
Understanding what you are reading does not seem to be something that has a high priority these days.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
It's Just Too Simple For You
Redison,
Your comment:
"I understand that the first signed and numbered copy sold for over $200.00 and the #2 copy brought $245.00. I have a feeling that I am not the only person to recognize "Information" and quality when I see it."
My response:
"Since those copies were sold to people who had not seen the contents, I can't imagine how your statement has any merit. As I mentioned before, the signatures of Jim Hatt and Clay Worst on the numbered copies was the only thing that convinced me to place a bid."
You reply:
"I made a phone call and learned that all of the numbered and signed copies (except the ones donated to the Historical Society for fund raising purposes) are shipped out by the author with a 7 day approval and no questions asked full refund policy. INCLUDING THE COPY YOU PURCHASED SIGHT UNSEEN!"
Please notice the bold outline I have placed in my last comment. That statement means I did not purchase the pamphlet for the "new information" that might be contained inside.
Had I wished to take advantage of the "refund policy", I would have done so. As I stated before, I got my money's worth. I also said, I would have paid more. This was said "after the fact", meaning that I had already seen the pamphlet. The "7 day approval and refund offer" has nothing to do with what I said. Like a dog with a bone, you just can't imagine life without having it to chew on.
Glad to see you have dropped the #2 copy game. Whoever gave you the advise to let it die, is a little smarter than you.
As for my "many other secret identities", I have no problem saying what I believe, and then signing my own name to it. That should seem obvious to anyone, even an idiot. I will say it again: Joe, the Webmaster, has my consent to reveal any and all "secret identities" I have ever used on this site. No doubt, since you are "new" on the Forum, you will make the same offer.
Bill or DED would probably send you their phone numbers, but probably have no desiire to deal with any other fool you might decide to pass it along to.
"I'm afraid it's beyond my ability to comprehend."
It would appear that is a true statement.
"You on the other hand have to contend with yourself every minute of every day."
That is also a true statement. I manage to do that little chore without loosing any sleep. I just barely get by, but I do manage. I am touched by your concern.
You have the consoloation of knowing that when you get upset, again, you will leave the site, once more, and no longer have to suffer my ramblings. Nawode nanigheed!
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Your comment:
"I understand that the first signed and numbered copy sold for over $200.00 and the #2 copy brought $245.00. I have a feeling that I am not the only person to recognize "Information" and quality when I see it."
My response:
"Since those copies were sold to people who had not seen the contents, I can't imagine how your statement has any merit. As I mentioned before, the signatures of Jim Hatt and Clay Worst on the numbered copies was the only thing that convinced me to place a bid."
You reply:
"I made a phone call and learned that all of the numbered and signed copies (except the ones donated to the Historical Society for fund raising purposes) are shipped out by the author with a 7 day approval and no questions asked full refund policy. INCLUDING THE COPY YOU PURCHASED SIGHT UNSEEN!"
Please notice the bold outline I have placed in my last comment. That statement means I did not purchase the pamphlet for the "new information" that might be contained inside.
Had I wished to take advantage of the "refund policy", I would have done so. As I stated before, I got my money's worth. I also said, I would have paid more. This was said "after the fact", meaning that I had already seen the pamphlet. The "7 day approval and refund offer" has nothing to do with what I said. Like a dog with a bone, you just can't imagine life without having it to chew on.
Glad to see you have dropped the #2 copy game. Whoever gave you the advise to let it die, is a little smarter than you.
As for my "many other secret identities", I have no problem saying what I believe, and then signing my own name to it. That should seem obvious to anyone, even an idiot. I will say it again: Joe, the Webmaster, has my consent to reveal any and all "secret identities" I have ever used on this site. No doubt, since you are "new" on the Forum, you will make the same offer.
Bill or DED would probably send you their phone numbers, but probably have no desiire to deal with any other fool you might decide to pass it along to.
"I'm afraid it's beyond my ability to comprehend."
It would appear that is a true statement.
"You on the other hand have to contend with yourself every minute of every day."
That is also a true statement. I manage to do that little chore without loosing any sleep. I just barely get by, but I do manage. I am touched by your concern.
You have the consoloation of knowing that when you get upset, again, you will leave the site, once more, and no longer have to suffer my ramblings. Nawode nanigheed!
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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End Of Conversation.
Redison,
I had thought my last post would end our conversation, but found that you had returned to reply to my "ramblings" one more time.
In your past replies you relied on some kind of logic
to launch what became a personal attack on me. I have no problem with that. MY replies have all been truthful.
"I lean more towards believing you are upset by the fact that your attempts to get “Chummy” with him after the transaction was completed did not work. Nor did your attempt to get chummy with him via your anonymous correspondence thru an alternate and newly created hotmail email address."
This comment is interesting, because I have never had an account with "hotmail". I must assume you have changed your discussion from "opinion" to outright lies. I have not tried to contact Jim Hatt after the completion of the sale. You, on the other hand, seem to have your nose up Mr. Hatt's ass. If you are stuck there, don't worry, as you will get to see a lot more of the Superstitions that way, assuming you have good peripheral vision.
While your "Queen" may be placed in danger, only your King is checked.
What exactly is your strong suit?
I will give you the last word here, as it is never a good idea to have a battle of wits with a defenseless person. That is especially true when someone resorts to lies to obscure the mental battleground.
Joe Ribaudo
I had thought my last post would end our conversation, but found that you had returned to reply to my "ramblings" one more time.
In your past replies you relied on some kind of logic
to launch what became a personal attack on me. I have no problem with that. MY replies have all been truthful."I lean more towards believing you are upset by the fact that your attempts to get “Chummy” with him after the transaction was completed did not work. Nor did your attempt to get chummy with him via your anonymous correspondence thru an alternate and newly created hotmail email address."
This comment is interesting, because I have never had an account with "hotmail". I must assume you have changed your discussion from "opinion" to outright lies. I have not tried to contact Jim Hatt after the completion of the sale. You, on the other hand, seem to have your nose up Mr. Hatt's ass. If you are stuck there, don't worry, as you will get to see a lot more of the Superstitions that way, assuming you have good peripheral vision.
While your "Queen" may be placed in danger, only your King is checked.
What exactly is your strong suit?
I will give you the last word here, as it is never a good idea to have a battle of wits with a defenseless person. That is especially true when someone resorts to lies to obscure the mental battleground.
Joe Ribaudo
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Thu May 19, 2005 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aloha Joe
Joe,
Out of respect for a personal friend, and at his request I have agreed (only after sounding my objection) to let the matter drop. I would much rather see this played out to the "King Check" but I have been told that it will not be allowed to happen.
If I could do it alone, I would not hesitate.
It's not a total loss, I think enough dialogue has been exchanged for even the casual observer to get the picture of what has been your driving force.
R Edison
Out of respect for a personal friend, and at his request I have agreed (only after sounding my objection) to let the matter drop. I would much rather see this played out to the "King Check" but I have been told that it will not be allowed to happen.
If I could do it alone, I would not hesitate.
It's not a total loss, I think enough dialogue has been exchanged for even the casual observer to get the picture of what has been your driving force.
R Edison
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Joe Ribaudo
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Wizzing?
Wiz,
From time to time, a lone wolf shows up on this site. He is known by many of the members. It would appear you are out of that loop. He will only be here a short time, get insulted, get mad and get gone.
In his last two appearances he has not added one word to the discussion of the LDM.
Your own comments are designed to add fuel to the fire. It would seem that you also have nothing to add concerning the LDM. I don't really mind, as that has always been your major contribution.
I have said this before. If you don't like the way the conversation is going, why don't you start a new topic? Try making a comment on the two new topics that have been posted.
If you are going to insist on staying in this one, try reading our last two posts. That will give you an answer to one of your questions, and I just gave you the answer to the other.
Don't feel like you have to comment on every post, that's my job.
Respectfully,
Joe
From time to time, a lone wolf shows up on this site. He is known by many of the members. It would appear you are out of that loop. He will only be here a short time, get insulted, get mad and get gone.
In his last two appearances he has not added one word to the discussion of the LDM.
Your own comments are designed to add fuel to the fire. It would seem that you also have nothing to add concerning the LDM. I don't really mind, as that has always been your major contribution.
I have said this before. If you don't like the way the conversation is going, why don't you start a new topic? Try making a comment on the two new topics that have been posted.
If you are going to insist on staying in this one, try reading our last two posts. That will give you an answer to one of your questions, and I just gave you the answer to the other.
Don't feel like you have to comment on every post, that's my job.
Respectfully,
Joe
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Joe Ribaudo
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Who's Who
TGH,
Thank you. It was obvious from the first post, by both "new" members.
I know who a great many of the members are. Some have just told me, some I have guessed and some wanted to exchange private messages or e-mail. In the later two cases, I have insisted on names, addresses and phone numbers. Although not close, I consider them all friends. I used to be less demanding, untill I started exchanging e-mails with Mr. ..... Now I want to know who I am talking to.
There was one guy who had put me on his IM list, and just started talking to me one night while I was on line. He made the mistake of sending me an e-mail from his workplace, and it was easy to find out who he was. It has never been a problem, because I don't disclose identities to anyone.
How does it feel to be so close to the LDM now? The heart does tend to beat a little faster as you get closer.
Respectfully,
Joe
Thank you. It was obvious from the first post, by both "new" members.
I know who a great many of the members are. Some have just told me, some I have guessed
and some wanted to exchange private messages or e-mail. In the later two cases, I have insisted on names, addresses and phone numbers. Although not close, I consider them all friends. I used to be less demanding, untill I started exchanging e-mails with Mr. ..... Now I want to know who I am talking to.There was one guy who had put me on his IM list, and just started talking to me one night while I was on line. He made the mistake of sending me an e-mail from his workplace, and it was easy to find out who he was. It has never been a problem, because I don't disclose identities to anyone.
How does it feel to be so close to the LDM now? The heart does tend to beat a little faster as you get closer.
Respectfully,
Joe