The Stone Maps

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

Peter is correct. I was at the store and should have waited until I got home to where my brain/memory was waiting on the bookshelf.

My personal belief is that Jim Bark's monumented trail was not the same as the Stone Map Trail. In fact, it could not be.

It seems likely, at least to me, that Trap Canyon is the most likely candidate for "Havalina Canyon". That would make Deering's most likely camp....LaBarge Spring. If he leaves Labarge Spring, goes up Trap Canyon over into "Horse Country" and then takes the trail up onto Music Mountain, the rest of his description falls into place.

Once he was on the top of Music Mountain he proceeded northwest down (in elevation) Peter's Mesa, staying on the high ground all the way. He turns west at the end of the mesa and then turns southwest onto Black Mountain. He is always on the high ground.

For anyone who may be wondering, that hike is a little over seven miles.

There is one other passage that fits the bill here: "Deering told John Chuning that on his second trip to the mine, he did not return to his camp the same way he did the first trip, but came down off the big mountain into a rincon, (corner) and there he put up four small monuments....
and from there he went up (elevation) the big canyon to camp..." If you drop off of Black Mountain to the northwest, you will find such a "rincon". It is in Squaw Canyon.

If anyone decides to search Black Mountain for the LDM/Joe Deering Mine, please try not to disturbe the ghosts of those who came before you, there are many.

Was Joe Deering on the Stone Map Trail? He was very close.

Respectfully,

Joe

[bill711]

Joe; This is my say on the stone maps! I first heard of the KING of Spain ordering that all the mines be marked in such a way that his representitive could go straight to the mines at anytime. nite or dayblind folded. NOW The Line on the stone map that runs into the rio means that it is a reverse or mirror image map. HOLD it to the mirror to see the true map. MY first lessen in the kings order was in my history class in the mid-to late fifties in my american history class! I do not know WHAT the rules were CALLED that the KING OF SPAIN issued but this is when I first heard of them. I do not think that kenworthy was old enough to be making up shit in a book then? NOW Joe if you LOOKED with your EYES OPENED at some of the pictures that I sent you ? YOU should have seen some of the same signs that were used on the stone maps. The pictures that I sent you were from TEXAS rock. SO with what with the many things that I have seen I have to think that there was some kind of standard rule or order in marking the way to the kings mine. NOW with that said I cannot say what if anything they would be called or if they were issued then shelved so you could find them 400 yrs. later or where they would be stored. HELL it could have been an underling like you that made them up and just called them the KINGS CODE and told everyone that the KING issued them ?? HUH yes maybe? Who knows for sure? I don,t? Do you? This is my say on them. BILL JOE you have to remember that even the priest were a back biting bunch back then, everyone hungered for power then, if not for themselves then for their gang order or family order or what have you...MONEY is power Wealth is power..it,s the difference in YOU having to shine the shoes OR you having your shoes shined...

[Roger]

Joe,

You are totally correct that you did not call Chuck Kenworthy a "nut case". You have been consistent in only looking for verification/documentation to validate his version of the Spanish map making rules.

I apologize for incorrectly stating your position.

Roger

[Joe Ribaudo]

Roger,

There was no need for an apology. I have always been open with my feelings toward the subject of Chuck Kenworthy. In my usual light-handed manner, I have no doubt that I conveyed the impressions you mentioned.

Hope all is well.

Take care,

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

Bill,

History was my favorite subject in high school. I don't recall ever getting close to the Kings Code. Sounds like your history teacher was a bit of a treasure hunter.

There is not one scintilla of evidence that there was ever any such order or code.......not one. I normally don't shut my eyes when looking at pictures, even when the come from okie red-necks.

The Stone Maps do not need to be held up to a mirror, the heart does not need to be spun, like a top and there is no place like home. Those are rules to live by, my friend and the King's rules are pure fantasy.

Just think about what you are saying......If the Stone Maps were made using the King's rules, who was hiding what and from whom. Was it Spanish citizens doing the hiding or was it the King's men? In either case, wouldn't they use a secret code that was unknown by the other side? Both sides had the same code.

If the maps were made by the Jesuits, as Azmula believes, and I used to, who were they hiding their treasure from?........That would be the King of Spain. Do you believe the Jesuits were not smart enough to create their own secret code, and dumb enough to use the one supplied by the king?

I am about ready to offer a reward to anyone with proof of the existance of such a code, with some of that money that my folks back in Minn. left me when they died. The fact that they both are living here in Lake Havasu right now, is besides the point.

Who you calling an "underling"? Man who's got pigs and chicken running through his front room should watch where he throws stones.

Take care,

Joe

[bill711]

Joe If you would get off of this SECRET KINGS CODE! ALL I was saying was that when I was in high school we had history lessons in which we studied the french and spanish history, in which the spanish mining was touched on, The old instructer who was about 75 yrs. old told about how the spanish miners were instructed to mark the way to their mines in such a way that the kings rep. could find it if he wanted to. no secret, no codes, nothing secret, just a set of standerd markers. That,s all. No hiding nothing. PERIOD..Decenal NO DAM SECRETS Maybe it was not the king at all maybe it was the VICEROY who issued the orders and said it was the kings order so that it wouldn,t be questioned? who knows. BUT no secret nothings ! If you ever came to OK. and had pigs and chickens running thru the house you must have been visiting your favorite cousins..When I was young everyone had pigs, chickens and cows; BUT they for damn sure were NOT running thru the house BUT as far away as we could keep them because of the flies and smell. I sit here now and can think of no one that I know who has any at all..ALSO the papist were not even mentioned! except in a minor way. bill

[bill711]

Joe as a side note my brother went into the chicken business and cattle raising 40 yrs ago. He retired 10 yrs. ago with his land and house paid for and a million bucks in the bank ; that,s not bad for a lowly chicken raiser? He tried some pigs but he didn,t like them... bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

Bill,

Don't get me wrong, I like chicken. If you cook it right it tastes just like, well......chicken.

Your brother, obviously, tried to raise the wrong kind of pig. He should have stuck with the Spotted Irish Tenor breed, and he would have retired with two million instead of one million. There's just nothing like an Irish Tenor, especially a yearling. If you cook them right, they taste just like, well.........chicken.

Now my daughter's family, real okies not just living in OK, like some , raise chickens, pigs, cattle, horses, dogs, cats and I think I have a few grandkids in there as well, they are the real thing and not pretenders.... like some.

I really like the grandkids, over all the other critters, and I have heard that if you cook them right, they taste just like......

Respectfully,

Joe

[sluicebox]

My own theory on the Stone Maps is the “Where there is smoke there is fire theory.” The problem is that there is just too much smoke and no one seems to know who started the fires where or when. The signs and symbols on the stone maps appear everywhere from Texas to Arizona. If the maps were not found in the Queen Creek area, why would the Supers be the best candidate for the area they refer to? I did say “if.” I don’t see anything on the maps that would indicate that they were intended to apply to the Superstition Mountains.

Evidence on the ground can be found all over the place. I’m currently hiking 3 different areas looking for evidence in each area to support the respective theories and their relationship to the maps. One theory is my own, and the other two are those of friends. My own theories I came up with simply by searching a 3D topo map looking for natural waterway features that had the same shape as the trail. After finding one that fit I hiked to the end of the trail and found a circle in a circle (man made), the number 10 carved on a rock near by, a rock in the shape of the number 1 in an adjoining valley, a triangle formed by the sun’s rays at noon through a natural rock formation, and a hat shaped cut in the rocks just below the triangle. I’ve posted photos of these in the members archive. In a sense, the problem here is the same as the problem associated with looking for the LDM. Until you come up with the golden pot at the end of the rainbow it’s all just theory, and if someone finds that pot, you will probably never hear about it. I love a mystery, I love to theorize, and I love to hike. That combination makes an unknown in some beautiful mountains an attraction on more than one level. I’m not giving up on my own theories, or anyone else’s. I’m willing to keep an open mind and check them all for evidence on the ground, because that is where the ultimate evidence will come from. The ultimate test of any theory is its ability to predict an outcome. In this case, that would be the treasure the map leads to. It may be Spanish gold, or a sign that says “Ha-ha, I beat ya to it”, but something needs to be found at the end of the trail to give any theory and its supporting evidence the final seal of Truth with a capital T. Regards, Larry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Larry,

Those are some very interesting pictures.

I assume if you were to draw lines between the locations of the things you have found, on a topo, and do the same thing on the Stone Maps, the lines would all run through the same objects on both maps.

For instance: If you were to draw a line between the random dots on the Stone Maps, you would find that one of those lines runs directly through the circle in a circle. If none of the theories you are working on, includes the locations of those random dots, perhaps they should.

It would also be nice if your artifacts or symbols are all in the proper place, prorortionally, to the location shown on the Stone Maps. For instance: If your one (1) is in the proper place, one of the most important random dots should be found directly to the west, assuming the Stone Maps are drawn with north towards the top of the dagger.

I can't begin to tell you how many photographs have been sent to me, showing important symbols from the Stone Maps. Few are in the proper sequence or close to the correct distance.

While parts of the trail may be a little disjointed due to the terrain and a few other obvious challanges the map maker may have faced, the location, proportionally, of the symbols should remain constant throughout.

There are some key things on the Stone Maps, which must be located, and in the proper order, place and proportions from each other. They are: The start of the trail, the random dots, the point of the dagger, the triangle-slash and the one (1) with the curved line ending in the triangle which must be located in the center (boundries) of the removeable stone heart.

While some who are reading this are thinking.....well DUH, the key is not finding those things individually or in a cluster, but in places which are proportional and in the order shown on the Stone Maps.

As you know, I wish you all the luck in the world.

Take care,

Joe

[bill711]

Joe; I can,t think of anyone who raises chickens cows or pigs right now; used to everyone had some or all of them. BUT now horses are the thing, racers, barrel, and plugs some show horses like the appas. to ride, plus a few mules for old time sake. I had some friends who,s mule had twins a few yrs. back. that,s unual. Down in Ark. they still have tractor and mule and oxen pulls. Contests. Anyway; You couldn,t pay my brother to eat a chicken. He will not get closer to one than a chicken fried steak... bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

Bill,

Now I have had chicken fried steak, and no matter how they cook it, it don't taste nothin like chicken. Imagine that!

See, I knew you were one of them high dollar okies....runnen-around with them gentlemen farmers and such. Bet you boys all jump in the jet and fly down to Opryland when the mood hits you. OK just ain't the same no more.

Glad to hear there are still a few mules hitting the ground back there.

Respectfully,

Joe

[sluicebox]

Joe

I haven’t had time to attempt aligning things on a topo map as yet. I think the best way to do that would be to do a transparency and tape it on my computer screen. That would keep everything in proportion and make it easy to see if the random dots might line up with map features. I know there is a mine located at the beginning of the trail exactly where the X is on the map. It goes in about 100 yards and has a side tunnel. Through binoculars I can see what looks like a mine that has been blown shut at the location of the third X, but I haven’t done an up close yet.

I’m heading out tomorrow to check the area of the second X on the maps, but at one of my friend’s locations. He has done a lot of line drawing through those random points, and they do line up with a lot of points that could be used as reference markers. He thinks that the middle X might even hold possibilities for the LDM. So, I’m off to chase this particular puff of smoke in hopes that I might find some burning embers or even a full fledged forest fire. Wish me luck again, just in case it works. Regards, Larry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Larry,

Hard to believe that someone can equate an X on the Stone Maps with the LDM in particular, but I suppose anything is possible. On the other hand, did your friend find the mines you are talking about first, or did he place the Xs on his map first? Makes all the difference in the world, in my opinion.

I would think that everyone would wish you luck. I, of course, do.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

"The best I can tell, this location is on the northeast corner of Coffee Mountain, roughly at the 4400 foot level."

Well...., it's really no secret that many people place the Stone Map Trail running right through that area.

Larry has found a mine at one of those Xs and spotted another at the location of another of the Xs. Probably just a coincidence.

Now you throw Late's location on Coffee Flat Mountain in there, and by chance it is located, pretty much, right on one of those pesky Xs. No doubt just another coincidence.

That area may get a little crowded, when the temp. gets a little cooler.

Respectfully,

Joe

[djui5]

I personally think the stones were created by someone to keep people running in circles in the mountains while they continue the search for the real mine.

Also, I haven't read anywhere where anyone says what the heart really means....it dosen't mean "this is the heart of the map" by any means.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Randy,

I am a little confused. On the one hand, you are saying you believe the Stone Maps are a hoax. On the other, you are saying that the heart has some meaning, other than: This is the heart of the map.

I don't believe there is any meaning in the heart. It is a landmark and something you are required to find to solve the meaning of the map.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[djui5]

Joe,
I should clarify. A heart in spanish petroglyphs means something, and it's not "the is the heart of the map" or any of the "heart monument" theories I've read about in reference to the stone maps.

I don't believe the maps were made by the spanish, but by someone tricking people into looking somewhere besides where they should be looking.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Randy,

In this particular instance, you are told to "look for the heart". That would suggest an object as opposed to an idea. Once you know the entire trail, you will know when you find the heart. There is a picture of it in the member's archive.

It could still all be a hoax.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[djui5]

Are they saying to look for the heart? Or is that maybe just your (and others) interpertation of what they are saying?

A heart in spanish petroglyphs means "death trap".

I am inclined to believe it's *possible* that the maps were either made by the person who found them (he was a priest or something similar correct? Hence all the crosses and religious inclinations), or they are maps to this mine left by the peraltas or jesuits. Also, if they were made by the person who left them, or someone else to throw off LDM hunters, then the "evidence" in the superstitions was planted also.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/ ... 951.0.html

Note the 3rd picture down (sombrero peak), and the 18 mines. Also, note that one of the treasure cache's is in a church...

I'm also incined to wonder how many dutchman clues refer to this mine? So many similaritys. North South canyon, "sombrero looking peak", 18 mines (believed to be 18 points of interest re: LDM), deep canyon, etc etc.

Maybe it's just a coincidence.....what do I know

[Joe Ribaudo]

Randy,

There are many sources for this kind of information. "Hawkeye" cites a few, and also mentions the "code" of the Spanish. Still waiting for a single document that proves the existance of such a code.

A heart, by itself, does not mean a "death trap". It means "gold"..... if you believe that stuff. In the case in point, the heart is what I have photographed and placed in the Members Archive.

If anyone has figured out (exactly) where you are supposed to go from the heart, let me know. We will be rich, rich, rich.

Trying to tie the Stone Maps into the LDM might not be such a bad idea. There is much, much more than what you have suggested.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Joe Ribaudo]

All,

I was recently asked:

"You've seen the heart right? I imagine it's not the heart in the picture you posted?"

Just so everyone knows, I placed that heart on a map over thirty years ago. When we finally looked, it was in the exact spot as I had noted on that map. The trail, which was also placed on the map was also there.

It is the heart which is on the Stone Maps. There is no doubt in my mind about that. Now if I were really smart, I would know what it all means.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[bill711]

Joe in the past 30 yrs. have you ever metel detexed from the heart and out and round for say 2-300 ft. area from the hart??? U said u looked under the hart and found coal oil...bill

[djui5]

Has anyone here seen the 5th stone map found in UT last year (or 04)? Is there pictures of it anywhere?

[Joe Ribaudo]

Bill,

We have used a good metal detector around the heart and a void detector as well. The void detector is how we found the ore body in the triangle.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday. We are at the Stoker Family reunion in Kingman. Two of Obie Stoker's neices, one nephew, four great nephews and a passel of their kids.

We did a pit B.B.Q. yesterday, and I made pasta with all the goodies today. May have to roll me back to Lake Havasu.

Take care,

Joe