Deering Comments
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Joe Ribaudo
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All In Good Fun.
Peter,
Perhaps you should break those pencils into one inch pieces.
Try to remember, this is all in good fun.
Wiz,
The Bark Notes seem to indicate that Deering gave Chuning a pretty fair description of the trail to the mine. As for my knowledge (or lack thereof) concerning the trail in question, there are few trails in the Superstitions that I am not aware of. My "fishing expeditions" have brought some results, but only in finding out who's who in the zoo. Peter and others have confirmed (to me) how much they know about Deering's trail, and the mountains in general, and the history of the LDM in particular. I give a considerable amount of weight to their comments because of their obviously correct knowledge. I do the same with you. Certain comments are made to put some emotion in the response. Peter does the same thing and you have just done it as well. "(Sorry I couldn't resist that one.)"
I tend to laugh at these things, some take them seriously.
I don't find your fourth point " basically meaningless". In judging this story, the truth or falsity of each detail is what gives the whole story its believability. If you find a number of these details to be less then logical, you might want to question the entire story.
We (my family) have all been to the skewwy place.
Have you? Just fishing here.
Let's see......ratty outfit, ore, ratty outfit, ore. Take the burro to the mine, let him rest in camp, take the burro to the mine, let him rest in camp. Do you really have a hard time with this concept?
You may both be correct. I really hope you are because I have a lot of reasons to believe the LDM is empty. If I am right, I'm in the right place and will only find history. If you are right, your pit will be full of the richest ore you have ever seen. You can believe me when I say, I hope you are right.
Don't strain anything while you boys are patting youselves on the back for figuring me out. It's not all that difficult. I'm a very simple man.
Joe
Perhaps you should break those pencils into one inch pieces.
Try to remember, this is all in good fun.Wiz,
The Bark Notes seem to indicate that Deering gave Chuning a pretty fair description of the trail to the mine. As for my knowledge (or lack thereof) concerning the trail in question, there are few trails in the Superstitions that I am not aware of. My "fishing expeditions" have brought some results, but only in finding out who's who in the zoo. Peter and others have confirmed (to me) how much they know about Deering's trail, and the mountains in general, and the history of the LDM in particular. I give a considerable amount of weight to their comments because of their obviously correct knowledge. I do the same with you. Certain comments are made to put some emotion in the response. Peter does the same thing and you have just done it as well. "(Sorry I couldn't resist that one.)"
I tend to laugh at these things, some take them seriously.
I don't find your fourth point " basically meaningless". In judging this story, the truth or falsity of each detail is what gives the whole story its believability. If you find a number of these details to be less then logical, you might want to question the entire story.
We (my family) have all been to the skewwy place.
Have you? Just fishing here.Let's see......ratty outfit, ore, ratty outfit, ore. Take the burro to the mine, let him rest in camp, take the burro to the mine, let him rest in camp. Do you really have a hard time with this concept?
You may both be correct. I really hope you are because I have a lot of reasons to believe the LDM is empty. If I am right, I'm in the right place and will only find history. If you are right, your pit will be full of the richest ore you have ever seen. You can believe me when I say, I hope you are right.
Don't strain anything while you boys are patting youselves on the back for figuring me out. It's not all that difficult. I'm a very simple man.
Joe
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<< I really hope you are because I have a lot of reasons to believe the LDM is empty. If I am right, I'm in the right place and will only find history. >>
Joey Joey Joey
This of course is the time honored answer and tradition of all Dutch Hunters whose search comes up dry.
Right location....but of course..the LDM is worked out. Or empty. Or this is the LDM, but maybe not the RIGHT LDM. Or wouldnt you know it, I have the right location but the earthquake of '87 erased all signs of the mine.
Or the Black Legion moved the cache. Or the vein has become invisible due to the machinations of the evil Lizard men.
I can only hope you find that elusive 18 inch vein of rose quartz in your search. oops...did I say Rose quartz?
P
Joey Joey Joey
This of course is the time honored answer and tradition of all Dutch Hunters whose search comes up dry.
Right location....but of course..the LDM is worked out. Or empty. Or this is the LDM, but maybe not the RIGHT LDM. Or wouldnt you know it, I have the right location but the earthquake of '87 erased all signs of the mine.
Or the Black Legion moved the cache. Or the vein has become invisible due to the machinations of the evil Lizard men.
I can only hope you find that elusive 18 inch vein of rose quartz in your search. oops...did I say Rose quartz?
P
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Joe Ribaudo
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Your not listening
Peter,
I repeat, I have never taken one step searching for the LDM. No search to come up dry. If I believe it is a dry hole, it is not because Peter's Papago moved it. More likely that Waltz, The two soldiers, Deering and finally John Chuning took the last of Waltz's cache. Most of this particular conversation has nothing to do with what we are looking for, but where we are looking.
Yes you did say rose quartz and yes, "The rose colored gravel are a marker.", is part of the puzzle. Do you have that last piece of the puzzle?
Just fishing here.
Joe
I repeat, I have never taken one step searching for the LDM. No search to come up dry. If I believe it is a dry hole, it is not because Peter's Papago moved it. More likely that Waltz, The two soldiers, Deering and finally John Chuning took the last of Waltz's cache. Most of this particular conversation has nothing to do with what we are looking for, but where we are looking.
Yes you did say rose quartz and yes, "The rose colored gravel are a marker.", is part of the puzzle. Do you have that last piece of the puzzle?
Just fishing here.
Joe
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joseph,
Not terribly sure about rose colored gravel...or rose colored anything for that matter (course I am partial to rust, dark brown and red when its "ditood"). I dare say that if folks are looking for a rose-colored quartz, then they are on the wrong end of the color spectrum.
Course...what do I know?
P
Not terribly sure about rose colored gravel...or rose colored anything for that matter (course I am partial to rust, dark brown and red when its "ditood"). I dare say that if folks are looking for a rose-colored quartz, then they are on the wrong end of the color spectrum.
Course...what do I know?
P
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Joe Ribaudo
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Peter and Wiz,
I still think it is a fair question to ask: Why did John Chuning leave the area you believe Joe Deering found his mine in? Why did Jim Bark spend most of his time elsewhere? Peter, you have said " I will never search anywhere else for it." It would appear that you are wedded to your " sense of place". You will need more then one lifetime to spend the amount of time searching your mountain that just those two did. Do you believe it is just a matter of searching every square inch until you find it?
As I have said before, I understand your conclusions and they are valid. It's just that you are not the first to walk that trail, to that particular mountain. I am not fishing here.
Joe
I still think it is a fair question to ask: Why did John Chuning leave the area you believe Joe Deering found his mine in? Why did Jim Bark spend most of his time elsewhere? Peter, you have said " I will never search anywhere else for it." It would appear that you are wedded to your " sense of place". You will need more then one lifetime to spend the amount of time searching your mountain that just those two did. Do you believe it is just a matter of searching every square inch until you find it?
As I have said before, I understand your conclusions and they are valid. It's just that you are not the first to walk that trail, to that particular mountain. I am not fishing here.
Joe
Jo Jo
I am not terribly sure Chunning spent a whole lot of time (if ANY) near the area I think the mine is in.
You continue to pound away with the Deering angle, thinking I have the same "1 tracked mind" (or is that "mine") mentality as yourself. The Deering information, while I beleive is important, is NOT the only info I go by..and is indeed just a small piece in the overall puzzle.
Let me repeat this, so perhaps it might sink in this time (and if I had crayons I would write it in big BIG BIG letters so you would make no mistake).
I TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION FACTORS OTHER THAN THE DEERING "STORY".
I am not terribly sure Chunning spent a whole lot of time (if ANY) near the area I think the mine is in.
You continue to pound away with the Deering angle, thinking I have the same "1 tracked mind" (or is that "mine") mentality as yourself. The Deering information, while I beleive is important, is NOT the only info I go by..and is indeed just a small piece in the overall puzzle.
Let me repeat this, so perhaps it might sink in this time (and if I had crayons I would write it in big BIG BIG letters so you would make no mistake).
I TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION FACTORS OTHER THAN THE DEERING "STORY".
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Joe Ribaudo
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Trying to Focus on the Topic
Peter,
I think I have mentioned before that I am aware that you have much more than the Deering story to base your conclusions on. I will not need to write that in bold, as I have every confidence that you can understand what I write, if you choose to. Since the topic was "Deering Comments" I assumed we were trying to focus on that thread. Sorry if I mislead or confused you by discussing Joe Deering in the "Deering Comment" part of the forum. You created the topic, so I was just trying to follow your lead.
Just goes to show how dense I am. Perhaps I should not have brought Bark, Chuning or Holmes into the discussion, as that may have induced a bit of brain overload. I appreciate your opinion because it makes me ask questions and question my own conclusions. You are the expert on the Dutchman's mine, not me. You have done your research and time in the mountains in an attempt to find the LDM. Waltz's mine or cache has not occupied much of my time. I have never been one not to question the basis of people's statements and conclusions to test their validity. I don't limit that habit only to others, but include myself and my own conclusions.
Don't take offense that I or others may want to test the statements you make on this forum. It is a learning experience for us all.
I, for one, appreciate our little tete-a-tete.
Joe
I think I have mentioned before that I am aware that you have much more than the Deering story to base your conclusions on. I will not need to write that in bold, as I have every confidence that you can understand what I write, if you choose to. Since the topic was "Deering Comments" I assumed we were trying to focus on that thread. Sorry if I mislead or confused you by discussing Joe Deering in the "Deering Comment" part of the forum. You created the topic, so I was just trying to follow your lead.
Just goes to show how dense I am.
Perhaps I should not have brought Bark, Chuning or Holmes into the discussion, as that may have induced a bit of brain overload. I appreciate your opinion because it makes me ask questions and question my own conclusions. You are the expert on the Dutchman's mine, not me. You have done your research and time in the mountains in an attempt to find the LDM. Waltz's mine or cache has not occupied much of my time. I have never been one not to question the basis of people's statements and conclusions to test their validity. I don't limit that habit only to others, but include myself and my own conclusions. Don't take offense that I or others may want to test the statements you make on this forum. It is a learning experience for us all.
I, for one, appreciate our little tete-a-tete.
Joe
<<I repeat, I have never taken one step searching for the LDM. No search to come up dry>>
My dearest Joseph,
You are a remarkable study in conflicting contrasts. On the one hand, you claim you have "never taken one step" looking for the mine. On the other hand you have assembled a "team" to search for the mine and have induced veteran Dutch Hunters to leave their areas of interest and follow your lead.
What to make of this?
I suppose in the bad old days, some uncaring, insensitive soul would call you nuts or crazy...in our politically correct post-Clinton era, I imagine some might say you are suffering from bi-polar disorder, or schizophrenia.
While I beleive most Dutch Hunters are in some way "touched" by the Almighty, I will choose to beleive that you are neither nuts, nor bi-polar, and are instead...... just a very transparent fisherman.
My dearest Joseph,
You are a remarkable study in conflicting contrasts. On the one hand, you claim you have "never taken one step" looking for the mine. On the other hand you have assembled a "team" to search for the mine and have induced veteran Dutch Hunters to leave their areas of interest and follow your lead.
What to make of this?
I suppose in the bad old days, some uncaring, insensitive soul would call you nuts or crazy...in our politically correct post-Clinton era, I imagine some might say you are suffering from bi-polar disorder, or schizophrenia.
While I beleive most Dutch Hunters are in some way "touched" by the Almighty, I will choose to beleive that you are neither nuts, nor bi-polar, and are instead...... just a very transparent fisherman.
hello all.+the names evander and im a long time resident of tempe some 63 years in fact.ive been intrigued by the lost dutchman for most of my adult life although i must say that i dont have any faith in its existence any more(well perhaps a little)i dont want to rufflwe anyones feathers thats not my intention. but ive watched this discussion (along with many other topics)and can see that this one is maybe becoming a bit ill natured unfortunately.but anyway i digress. im just wondering why people pay such attention or give so much regard to the dearing saga.the facts are these (such as they are) the fellow died in mining accident full stop.the supposed discovery of the mine by him is unsupported or qualified by any facts save for the utterances of a few sensation seekers and third hand conversations.it can be placed alongside the two ex cavalrymen tale its on the same level.but still people persist with the same story ad nauseum. thats all
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Joe Ribaudo
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Split Personality
Peter,
Like many who have been labeled Dutch Hunters in the past, I am not looking for the LDM at all. I have always thought Waltz found the Massacre Grounds early on and hid the ore in the mountains. In the forty-four years I have been interested in the Superstitions, I have studied a lot of material on the subject. Like others, I have been led by some of that information to believe there is a Jesuit Treasure buried in the mountains.
I also believe the Peraltas worked the mountains and located mines there.
Much of the information I have concerns the LDM. I am familiar with all of the stories and legends that apply to the area. I feel that I can discuss the the pros and cons of each story with a fair amount of inteligence and knowledge. I don't necessarily need to believe the truth of the story to argue either side. I understand, that just because I don't believe Waltz had a mine, does not make it so. On the off chance I am wrong, I will check that ravine, not to find a mine, although that would be nice, but to find what once may have been a mine or cache.
My family, at one time or another, has worked the entire range. Chuck had claims on Black Top Mesa for a number of years. He searched Black Mountain and the adjoining area for a long, long time. When Chuck was not in the mountains, he had Al Morrow searching specific areas for him, including Bluff Spring Mountain, the Black Mountain area and the Joe Deering Trail. This arrangement continued until Al's death. Uncle Obie had his claim at Second Water which he found before World War II. He also searched the entire range over the years. He spent some time in the company of Crazy Jake. Neither Chuck or Obie ever closed the door on any possibility and in that, I am no different.
My team has never searched for the LDM. They were not "assembled" for that purpose, but would be ready for any adventure, including the LDM.
Should I be inclined to revisit Black Mountain or the Joe Deering Trail, I would have no trouble laying down convincing evidence to take us all there.
You are not the first to question my mental state, and probably won't be the last. Those who search for lost treasure are always suspect.
It's possible I may have inadvertently led this conversation into a personal attack on you or your ideas. I thought I was trying to stick to the facts of the stories we were discussing. I will fall back on two well used excuses, old age and a failing memory.
Keep writing, I will wake up soon.
Joe
Like many who have been labeled Dutch Hunters in the past, I am not looking for the LDM at all. I have always thought Waltz found the Massacre Grounds early on and hid the ore in the mountains. In the forty-four years I have been interested in the Superstitions, I have studied a lot of material on the subject. Like others, I have been led by some of that information to believe there is a Jesuit Treasure buried in the mountains.
I also believe the Peraltas worked the mountains and located mines there.
Much of the information I have concerns the LDM. I am familiar with all of the stories and legends that apply to the area. I feel that I can discuss the the pros and cons of each story with a fair amount of inteligence and knowledge. I don't necessarily need to believe the truth of the story to argue either side. I understand, that just because I don't believe Waltz had a mine, does not make it so. On the off chance I am wrong, I will check that ravine, not to find a mine, although that would be nice, but to find what once may have been a mine or cache.
My family, at one time or another, has worked the entire range. Chuck had claims on Black Top Mesa for a number of years. He searched Black Mountain and the adjoining area for a long, long time. When Chuck was not in the mountains, he had Al Morrow searching specific areas for him, including Bluff Spring Mountain, the Black Mountain area and the Joe Deering Trail. This arrangement continued until Al's death. Uncle Obie had his claim at Second Water which he found before World War II. He also searched the entire range over the years. He spent some time in the company of Crazy Jake. Neither Chuck or Obie ever closed the door on any possibility and in that, I am no different.
My team has never searched for the LDM. They were not "assembled" for that purpose, but would be ready for any adventure, including the LDM.
Should I be inclined to revisit Black Mountain or the Joe Deering Trail, I would have no trouble laying down convincing evidence to take us all there.
You are not the first to question my mental state, and probably won't be the last. Those who search for lost treasure are always suspect.
It's possible I may have inadvertently led this conversation into a personal attack on you or your ideas. I thought I was trying to stick to the facts of the stories we were discussing. I will fall back on two well used excuses, old age and a failing memory.
Keep writing, I will wake up soon.
Joe
Mr Ribaudo,
Your last post was intelligent and well thought out. Perhaps you can keep future posts on an even keel, rather than slip into the intellectual malaise that you apparently have a knack for?
I am not terribly certain that the non-exisitent Joe Deering Trail leads anywhere near the Black Mountain area. Of course, Black Mountain itself is an enigma. Is it todays Black Mountain? Or Black Mesa? Or Black Top Mesa? Or Black Top Mountain? Or yesterdays Black Mountain? Or Black Butte? Lots of black-something-or-other up that ways...... And lets not forget the Black Legion..or should it be Red Legion?
Your last post was intelligent and well thought out. Perhaps you can keep future posts on an even keel, rather than slip into the intellectual malaise that you apparently have a knack for?
I am not terribly certain that the non-exisitent Joe Deering Trail leads anywhere near the Black Mountain area. Of course, Black Mountain itself is an enigma. Is it todays Black Mountain? Or Black Mesa? Or Black Top Mesa? Or Black Top Mountain? Or yesterdays Black Mountain? Or Black Butte? Lots of black-something-or-other up that ways...... And lets not forget the Black Legion..or should it be Red Legion?
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Joe Ribaudo
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Getting the Knack of it.
Peter,
I have a knack for many things. It would seem that obfuscation with Peter's Papago and other things, is the order of the day. I will leave that to those who are best at it. I will, however, follow your advise from this point on.
I am somewhat surprised that you are "not terribly certain that the non-existent Joe Deering trail leads anywhere near the Black Mountain area", especially considering your previous statements. I consider one mile to be within the area. Wouldn't want to narrow it down any closer than that to protect a friend's interests.
Your friend,
Joe
I have a knack for many things. It would seem that obfuscation with Peter's Papago and other things, is the order of the day. I will leave that to those who are best at it. I will, however, follow your advise from this point on.
I am somewhat surprised that you are "not terribly certain that the non-existent Joe Deering trail leads anywhere near the Black Mountain area", especially considering your previous statements. I consider one mile to be within the area. Wouldn't want to narrow it down any closer than that to protect a friend's interests.
Your friend,
Joe
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Joe Ribaudo
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Working Our Way Back
Peter,
It would seem, thankfully, that we have worked our way back to the Joe Deering story. I have seen no mention of Black Mountain (in any of your
previously mentioned incarnations) in any of the various and sundry Joe Deering stories. I will accept the modern-day monikers for this discussion. The trail, however, is a well known commodity. It was interesting to see the trail mentioned in the forum and then see what came out of the woodwork, as to who knew what. As Wiz said, it's possible that everyone knew and just weren't talking. That trail is one of the things that puts a little doubt in my mind. Taking that fourteen or fifteen mile round trip on the second day, just to spend a few minutes looking around, in a place so spooky he would be afraid to spend the night alone, does not ring true.
Since you have said you followed Deering's trail to the area of the mine, I assume you must believe at least some of the story. Other then information from some of the Dutch Hunters, who also searched the area of the mine that the Deering trail led them into, we have only the original story to follow Joe Deering's tracks. You have said you have other information and I have absolutely no doubt that is true. The Deering story that we all know and love, should not convince many Dutch Hunters
that he found the LDM. It would appear that my own take on this story is not shared by the forum and most of the members either believe the story or have no opinion. I would like to believe it myself, but find nothing in the story or posts from wiz and yourself to tip the scales in favor of the Joe Deering Legend. Nothing I have heard that is not published or common knowledge helps this story. If I had any evidence (on either side of the debate) other than common sense, I would have offered it long ago. It's a great story.
Joe
It would seem, thankfully, that we have worked our way back to the Joe Deering story. I have seen no mention of Black Mountain (in any of your
previously mentioned incarnations) in any of the various and sundry Joe Deering stories. I will accept the modern-day monikers for this discussion. The trail, however, is a well known commodity. It was interesting to see the trail mentioned in the forum and then see what came out of the woodwork, as to who knew what. As Wiz said, it's possible that everyone knew and just weren't talking. That trail is one of the things that puts a little doubt in my mind. Taking that fourteen or fifteen mile round trip on the second day, just to spend a few minutes looking around, in a place so spooky he would be afraid to spend the night alone, does not ring true.
Since you have said you followed Deering's trail to the area of the mine, I assume you must believe at least some of the story. Other then information from some of the Dutch Hunters, who also searched the area of the mine that the Deering trail led them into, we have only the original story to follow Joe Deering's tracks. You have said you have other information and I have absolutely no doubt that is true. The Deering story that we all know and love, should not convince many Dutch Hunters
that he found the LDM. It would appear that my own take on this story is not shared by the forum and most of the members either believe the story or have no opinion. I would like to believe it myself, but find nothing in the story or posts from wiz and yourself to tip the scales in favor of the Joe Deering Legend. Nothing I have heard that is not published or common knowledge helps this story. If I had any evidence (on either side of the debate) other than common sense, I would have offered it long ago. It's a great story.
Joe
Joe
Yes it is a great story. Well said. The entertaining part for me is to put on my thinking cap (which some times short circuits my thought process..such as it is) and try to work the Deering clues and directions to see where one ends up. Course it would help if someone knew for certain
where Deering's original campsite was (where he lost his burro). I have seen it theorized that he camped anywhere between Goldfield ( I tend to doubt that) to Fish Creek (I doubt that too) and several places in between.
First Water, Labarge, Peters Canyon, Tortilla...take you pick.
Yes it is a great story. Well said. The entertaining part for me is to put on my thinking cap (which some times short circuits my thought process..such as it is) and try to work the Deering clues and directions to see where one ends up. Course it would help if someone knew for certain
where Deering's original campsite was (where he lost his burro). I have seen it theorized that he camped anywhere between Goldfield ( I tend to doubt that) to Fish Creek (I doubt that too) and several places in between.
First Water, Labarge, Peters Canyon, Tortilla...take you pick.
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Joe Ribaudo
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New Blood
Peter,
I think the trail limits the choices considerably. I will not pick one of your choices, because it is not a question seeking an answer. From your previous posts, it would seem that you already know the answer and are really looking for something else. Let's see if someone else would like to enter the discussion. Is there anyone who has spent some time on this story and has something to add? My interest in this story is casual at best and others may be able to bring in some fresh information.
Joe
I think the trail limits the choices considerably. I will not pick one of your choices, because it is not a question seeking an answer. From your previous posts, it would seem that you already know the answer and are really looking for something else. Let's see if someone else would like to enter the discussion. Is there anyone who has spent some time on this story and has something to add? My interest in this story is casual at best and others may be able to bring in some fresh information.
Joe
<< My interest in this story is casual at best .....>>
Hmmmm.
What to make of this remark?
For someone with a "casual" interest in the story you have posted 17 (thats SevenTEEN) times to this particular discussion. Perhaps the medication that you are so sorely in need of has run out and needs to be refilled?
Maybe you are a bit more interested in the Deering tale than you let on?
Or just have a lot of free time on your hands?
Hmmmm.
What to make of this remark?
For someone with a "casual" interest in the story you have posted 17 (thats SevenTEEN) times to this particular discussion. Perhaps the medication that you are so sorely in need of has run out and needs to be refilled?
Maybe you are a bit more interested in the Deering tale than you let on?
Or just have a lot of free time on your hands?
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Joe Ribaudo
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Free Time
Peter,
Most of those posts were repeated questions, as you have mentioned before, trying to get an answer that makes some sense and appears to be even a little logical. I have a passing interest in a lot of things, but do not consider myself an expert in them. That does not mean I have little knowledge or understanding of the subjects. Many in my family have said that I must be the most knowledgeable person in the world on the Superstition Mountains and the legends surrounding that range. I have replied that I know next to nothing compared to the informed members of this forum, including a guy named Peter, and the various authors who have written about the legends and history of that area.
I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the answers they have offered to questions that deal with reason and common sense. They become defensive and purposely obtuse when pressed for something more reasonable.
This forum exists to share information and experiences among the members. You and I (among many others) have offered a lot of information and no small amount of our experiences. Those bits of information are all subject to questions by those who share this site. Once you make a statement here, you should expect some requests for clarification and reasonable questions on your source. You will not be able to satisfy everyone, but those questions tend to keep us all aware that there could be a B.S. factor working here.
I have way more free time than most. For the most part there were only the two of us in this conversation. I believe that each reply deserves a reply. Had I more then a casual interest, thirty-four posts would not be out of the question, given the time frame.
Joe
Most of those posts were repeated questions, as you have mentioned before, trying to get an answer that makes some sense and appears to be even a little logical. I have a passing interest in a lot of things, but do not consider myself an expert in them. That does not mean I have little knowledge or understanding of the subjects. Many in my family have said that I must be the most knowledgeable person in the world on the Superstition Mountains and the legends surrounding that range. I have replied that I know next to nothing compared to the informed members of this forum, including a guy named Peter, and the various authors who have written about the legends and history of that area.
I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the answers they have offered to questions that deal with reason and common sense. They become defensive and purposely obtuse when pressed for something more reasonable.
This forum exists to share information and experiences among the members. You and I (among many others) have offered a lot of information and no small amount of our experiences. Those bits of information are all subject to questions by those who share this site. Once you make a statement here, you should expect some requests for clarification and reasonable questions on your source. You will not be able to satisfy everyone, but those questions tend to keep us all aware that there could be a B.S. factor working here.
I have way more free time than most. For the most part there were only the two of us in this conversation. I believe that each reply deserves a reply. Had I more then a casual interest, thirty-four posts would not be out of the question, given the time frame.
Joe
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Let's find the Hardest Way.
Since Joe Deering was following the Two Soldier's trail, why did they choose the most difficult and dangerous way to get from Fort McDowell to the Silver King? In those days, no one would pick that route. Since many of you have used that slice of legend to help in finding your own area of interest, I am sure you have convinced yourselves they had a perfectly sane reason. 
If you were making that trip from Fort McDowell in the 1800s (on foot), what route would you take? Take a good look at where they were headed before they decided to take that "short cut" thru the Supes. Just where was their final destination?
Please don't tell me they were unfamiliar with the area.
This may be a case where you will believe the story, instead of your lying eyes.
Joe
If you were making that trip from Fort McDowell in the 1800s (on foot), what route would you take? Take a good look at where they were headed before they decided to take that "short cut" thru the Supes. Just where was their final destination?
Please don't tell me they were unfamiliar with the area.This may be a case where you will believe the story, instead of your lying eyes.
Joe