Peralta Stone Maps - Clarence Mitchell Era to the Present

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

"What other entity could possibly be bringing suit against MOEL in 1968 or 1969? The best version we have is first hand from Lee Hammons and he didn’t believe the court was involved. (That’s also my story also and I’m sticking to it!)"

That's also my story.......with one less also.

The tax thingie doesn't seem to apply to MOEL at that time. My guess is that they just wanted to wash their hands of the whole Stone Map drama.

Chances are, they leaving a sinking ship, and didn't want to be holding onto any old anchors..

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

Garry,

The tax thingie doesn't seem to apply to MOEL at that time. My guess is that they just wanted to wash their hands of the whole Stone Map drama.

Chances are, they leaving a sinking ship, and didn't want to be holding onto any old anchors..

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

I think kind of opposite here. I believe that if any of the investors could have walked away with the maps, they would have. I'll bet everyone that wanted pictures got them, and the only way to deal with the stones so that nobody felt slighted, would be to donate them.

.................... or they were donated as part of a legal settlement. HAHAHA

Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

"....or they were donated as part of a legal settlement."

I assume you have at least one document to support that contention.

Take care,

Joe

[lazarus]

1. Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

8. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

4. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

7. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Michael, the Arc-angel

There are your numbers.

[Mike McChesney]

Laz,

The codes don't work like that. All your quotes are from Galatians 6. Where does the 6 enter into your equation? Funny how I posted a Bible verse on TNet yesterday and then you post one here today ....hmmmmmmmm.

The way that code works is Galatians 1:8-47 or Galatians 18:4-7 or Galatians 184:7

Mike

[lazarus]

Mike,
I have no idea what you are talking about, but nice try. However, if you say you posted something yesterday, I believe you... and I suspect you may be on to something... I haven't seen what you posted yet or where...

The codes are steeped in Catholic dogma... if you get a six out of it, I'm fine with that, too. My conclusion, however, is it is a typical warning to keep your head on straight or deal with the consequences. Don't take things that aren't yours and be accountable for your actions. I don't see any hocus-pocus involved.

I have never even been to T-net. What is it?

Brad

[lazarus]

Mike,
other than Galatians 6.1, we don't seem to match. Can you provide a link to where you got that from so I can compare?

Brad

[Mike McChesney]

All your quotes are from Galatians Chapter 6, verses 1, 8, 4, and 7. It doesn't work that way.

When you see the 1847, those are the only numbers in the code. That means the chapter and verses are ALL included in the number. How would you know to go to Chapter 6 if the only numbers you have are 1-8-4-7? You wouldn't. Period.

Mike

[lazarus]

Mike,
thank God we all have such a brilliant expert such as yourself to set us all straight.

Happy hunting, kiddo. Let us all know if you find something.

Brad

[lazarus]

BTW:
we do match...

[Mike McChesney]

Mike,
thank God we all have such a brilliant expert such as yourself to set us all straight.

Happy hunting, kiddo. Let us all know if you find something.

Brad

Actually Kiddo,

I have already had a little success. Nothing to retire on, but Spanish Colonial and paid the bills for a while.

Best-Mike

[Mike McChesney]

That is one of the reasons I back up Chuck Kenworthy so often.

His interpretations of some monuments in his books proved themselves (on more than one occasion, but only found anything valuable one time).

Best-Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

That raises the question......If his system was correct, why only one time? Did someone always get there before you, or what?

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

oh, and you can be a smartass all you want, doesn't do anything for your argument but make you look foolish.

Best-Mike

[Mike McChesney]

Mike,

That raises the question......If his system was correct, why only one time? Did someone always get there before you, or what?

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

To answer your question, no. A couple of them are still being worked. Remember, I have a real job, and a real life. HAHAHA While I may be obsessed, I am not crazy. In one case, for no apparent reason, the markers just ran out. Maybe they were destroyed by previous hunters (Dutch Hunters know all about that). Maybe I just missed something. I don't know about that one. I was at that one for several years part time. Still am, but much less so now.

Some of my sites are not Spanish Colonial. They are American from the 1800s and 1900s. Hence, Kenworthy's Rules don't apply.

I have said this about Kenworthy many times before; while he did put a lot of information in his books, he didn't include all the information he possessed. Especially about what to look for when you are within fifty or so yards of whatever you are looking for. I'm sure that was intentional so maybe he would be called in to advise for a share (he was not a philanthropist).

I have yet to arrive at an empty hole. The only story I have about that would have happened about 16-18 years ago in the Supers. I wasn't involved, but know a couple of the people who were. A group found a bunch of Spanish markers and such leading up some canyon (I don't know which one). They got stuck at the head of the canon. They were referred to a Tracker from Canada. They flew him down from Canada. He wasn't what they expected. He was a black guy wearing cowboy hat and boots, with a whisk broom in his back pocket. They brought him to the site. He looked around and told them they had something there. He then proceeded to walk around like he was in a trance. Looking at the walls and then the ground. After about a half hour, he knelt down, pulled the whisk broom from his pocket, swept off a little spot and said "Dig here."

A couple of feet down, they hit a cap stone. When they removed it, they found about a six by six foot rock lined vault. It was empty except for some sticks in the bottom laid parallel to each other. They still had the dents in them from the weight of the bars that they supported.

I know the guy's name and approximately where he lives in Canada. I talked to someone that knew him but haven't heard from him in a while. I'm still looking.

Best-Mike

[Mike McChesney]

Joe,

Also, Kenworthy's Interpretations have proven themselves several times. Look on TNet at the pictures I posted of that fish monument CK had in his "Monuments" Book that I found. Using his description, which says that there should be a spring one league (2.18 miles) from the monument in the direction the monument is facing. There is.

I don't give the location because it may or may not be part of my search for the Lost Gonzales Mine (the one that Adolph Ruth looked for). I say may or may not because that particular monument also happens to be along side the de Anza Trail, and could be associated with that.

Best-Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

I have never seen a single thing that would convince me that Chuck Kenworthy had any advantage (on land) over most of the prospector/treasure hunters I have known. Most of his "signs" have been around and published for many years.

Once I determined he had lied to Roger Newkirk about the "King's Code", I was done even thinking about him. My friend Thomas also met with him, and did not give a glowing report......so to speak.

Have you ever seen the video that shows him explaining his Stone Map theories at ProMack in Apache Junction? I have talked to a number of locals who where there, and they were all "embarrassed" for the man. After seeing the video, I can see why.

I have a number of friends who swear by the man, but I remain unconvinced by what I have actually seen. I also have all Chuck's book, as well as unpublished information.

You have your own experiences to go on, so I understand your acceptance of his theories.

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

Joe,

I believe you were the one that sent me a copy of the video.

What I took from that is that CK was a poor public speaker. I see it happen to people who aren't used to public speaking all the time. They have a bunch of information to talk about, but while they talk, more information comes to mind and they try and include that as well, but it all comes out jumbled and wandering.

CK had several character flaws, but his work on monuments and markers was right on.

Yes, some things have been around long before him, but doesn't that say something against those who say he made all that stuff up? He had a lot of information that was not anywhere else and some that had been around.

There are other things I know about CK and his sources that I am not able to post, but I will say that they only add to the veracity of his own claims.

Best-Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

I thought I might have sent you that CD.

It looked a little different to me than it did to you, but that's to be expected.

If you make it out to the Rendezvous, you can meet Roger Newkirk. The two of you will have a field day comparing notes on Kenworthy. He's a long time fan and may have some insight into his theories that you haven't thought of yet. Prince of a guy.

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

I look forward to it.

Best-Mike

[Cubfan64]

I tend to find a lot of the sign and symbol books and information to get into the realm of seeing "castles in the clouds," but I usually keep that to myself because it's just my perception based on pretty much little or no experience other than some casual glances of the books and such.

I will say however, if you were able to use Kenworthy's knowledge to track down something that proved to be REAL, that's an extremely strong argument.

You'll like Roger - he knows Kenworthy had flaws, but believed some of his information and theories were valid as well.

[Mike McChesney]

A good friend of mine who was also quite close to CK says that when it comes to treasure hunting, he listens to me and CK because we are the only two TH'ers he knows that have ever found anything.

I have the good fortune to know maybe five people that will never have to work again because of what they have found. I also know a gentleman in Tucson that saw one-fourth of $500,000 for 82 pounds of the gold bars that are my avatar.

Best-Mike

[Mike McChesney]

Also, that same friend is the one that CK showed the rich gold ore that he took out of the Superstitions many years ago.

CK also found 1028 silver bars along HWY19 between Tucson and Nogales. Not too awfully far from where my other friend and his partners found the 82 pounds of gold bars.

Best-Mike

[lazarus]

Mike

"That is one of the reasons I back up Chuck Kenworthy so often. His interpretations of some monuments in his books proved themselves (on more than one occasion, but only found anything valuable one time".

Much to my own surprise, I learned a great deal from Kenworthy. You won't catch me scoffing about his theories.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

So there you have it. Another ringing endorsement from someone who knows his way around the treasure hunting world. I know that there are probably many more such people out there, than doubters like me. It's too bad that none of these claims of fortune can ever be authenticated.

I always allow as how I could be wrong, and that's the truth, but I'm sixty-five now, and still waiting for someone to show me the money. So far it seems to always turn out to be "I know a guy who knew a guy.......". I know you are sincere and believe the stories, but I'm on the outside of that story looking in from a distance.

I believe in Harry's gold bar, because my uncle held the bar in his hands and he told me the story. I have heard the same story from three other men involved in the search. Your stories probably hit just as close to home for you.

With Kenworthy, I just keep coming back to that story that he told Roger.....:

[I spent several hours with Chuck Kenworthy over a very extended lunch at the Village Inn Restaurant in Apache Junction on 2/5/95. We discussed the Stone Maps and Chuck said that Eugene Lyon was the researcher that had provided the Spanish records on the King of Spain's rules for coded signs and symbols to be used on maps plus trail markers and monuments. He indicated that he had received copies of this information and not originals. He states this also on Page 15 of his book, "Treasure Signs, Symbols, Shadow, & Sun Signs".

Eugene Lyons is a very respected researcher and archaeologist in his field. He has served on several Museum Board Of Directors and has been on the teaching/research staff of several universities. He has been recognized by the King of Spain, the Dominican Republic President, and a number of recognized organizations. I would believe that his credentials and integrity are excellent and he did not "lift" documents from the archives and maintain this level of recognition. Eugene worked in these archives for 20 yrs and would not have jeopardized his access to them.]

And this:

[Several postings on the Forum have questioned the veracity of Charles (aka Chuck) Kenworthy's book, "Treasure Signs, Symbols, Shadow, & Sun Signs" (1991), plus his follow-up book, "Death Traps to Treasures" (1994). In phone calls and one-on-one meeting in Apache Junction, Chuck stated that he had kept a researcher in Spain employed for several years to dig through the Spanish Archives in Seville to try to find old mine maps and their descriptions/value. He did get back a significant number of valuable documents, but one set of documents that proved of exceptional value were the King's instructions on how to make maps to mine locations and how to mark the inbound and outbound trails to those mines in New Spain. The King was not about to lose his 1/5th of this valuable commodity and these map making and trail marking rules were locked in place for an extended period of time. In New Spain, each mining venture had to have a trained map maker and trail marker with the team. Maps were made of the significant finds and copies sent to Sante Fe and/or Mexico City and to Spain for safekeeping, least the King's property be lost if something happened to the miners.

Chuck stated that the individual that he hired to work the Seville archives was Eugene Lyon. If that name rings a bell with anyone - it should. Mel Fisher had also retained Eugene earlier to search the Seville archives for information on the 1715 Spanish fleet that was wrecked on the Florida coastline in a hurricane. It was Eugene that found the key clues on the Senora de Atocha that led Mel to the Dry Tortugas south of Key West and his finding of the Atocha.

Chuck said that there were a large number of pages in the map making and trail marking documents that Eugene sent him. The key ones were used in his books, but there were a number of others - some were variations of the ones in the books and others were entirely different.]

In a personal conversation with Professor Lyons, he stated that he had never worked for Charles Kenworthy. He also said that he never looked for or found any codes in Seville. He searched historical documents concerning, places and shipwrecks.


Take care,

Joe