Dedicated Dutchman Hunters

[Jan]

Dedicated Dutchman Hunters

I am working on a story that I hope to sell to a Treasure Hunting magazine and am in the process of compiling a list of people that came to Arizona specifically to hunt for the Dutchman‘s mine, never left and continued to search for it the rest of their lives, or are still alive and still looking for it.

I was going through my notes last evening and observed something I had overlooked. Bob Corbin, Clay Worst, Ron Feldman and Jim Hatt all came to Arizona from another state specifically to search for the Lost Dutchman Mine and they are all still looking for it! Where have we seen those names together before? Although I have never seen it written anywhere, I suspect we could also include Tom Kollenborn in that list. (Does anyone know when he came to Arizona, where from, and why?)

In addition to the names above I have:

Goddfried Petrasch
Herman Petrasch
Joe Deering
Abe Reid
George Miller
William “Bill” Hidden ( I am told HE found the Latin Heart near Florence Junction)
Bob Ward
Ludwig G, “Doc” Rosecrans
Robert Jacobs
Richard Peck
Chuck Aylor
Milton Rose

I intentionally left out names like Barry Storm, & Joe Ribaudo because they eventually gave up on hunting the mine. If you know of any other names (Alive or Deceased) that should be included, or have reason to believe that any of the names included above should not be included, please post them in this thread or “PM” them to me. If you have any background information on them that would be a big help too!

Thanks

Jan

[Joe Ribaudo]

Jan,

Your list needs more research.

My uncle, Chuck Ribaudo moved here for the express reason of finding the LDM. Someone else would be Dale Howard and Al Morrow. I have no doubt there were many others.

I did not move to Arizona to look for the LDM. I have yet to make a trip to the ravine where I believe it is, and have never taken a single step in the mountains looking for it. That does not count the times I was with Uncle Chuck while he was searching for the LDM.

On my own, I have always followed the Stone Maps. I do believe they show the LDM. That belief is backed up by a number of maps and stories.

I don't believe Joe Deering "came to Arizona specifically to hunt for the Dutchman's mine."

I have not "given up" on my own search or research, I just won't be putting my boots on the trail.

Good luck.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Jan]

Joe,

I understand that my research may be incomplete.

I was undecided about including Deering, I know he came here to specifically look for the Two Soldiers Mine, (according to Ely anyway) but to date it has not been determined if that mine is the Dutchman's mine or not.

Are there any books, magazines, newspapers or manuscripts that documented your uncle Chuck's search?

I have already received two nice emails with background information about Chuck Aylor and Milton Rose that appears to qualify them.

For anyone that does not already have it, My email address is: [email protected]

Jan

[Roger]

There were a lot of individuals that pursued the LDM for a number of years, however, your criteria that they came and spent the rest of their life in the search truncates the list significantly. Many of them left after many years of the hunt and would not qualify.

Suggest you talk with Greg Davis as he has been involved in the Superstitions for 25+ years and knew many of the early players personally. You can email him thru the Forum and I suspect he would correspond with you on this subject plus phone calls if needed.

Good luck!

Roger

[Joe Ribaudo]

Jan,

"He went on to reveal some personal details about himself. His home was in Vallejo, California, but he had been away for several years, always mining, first in California, then in Colorado, and recently in Arizona. He had a partner named Thompson, and the two of them had been prospecting in the Prescott area for most of the past year." "The Lost Dutchman Mine" by, Sims Ely
(Emphasis in bold by Joe)

It seems clear that Joe Deering did not come "to Arizona specifically to hunt for the Dutchman‘s mine".

What is interesting here, is that Jim Bark makes no mention of the two soldiers in his Joe Deering thread. Actually, his story is different, in many ways, from the Ely story. Reading the Bark account makes it clear that Joe Deering found the mine totally by accident. Since he received the story directly from John Chunning, I should think it is the correct one.

My uncle did not seek public attention. His group is mentioned as " the seven guns on Blacktop" by Curt Gentry. I have two letters, one to me, and one from Lake Erie Schaefer to Chuck. Both originals are in the possession of Greg Davis. Most of the people who knew and worked with Chuck are dead now. Dr. Glover has a short mention of Chuck in his second edition.

You did not qualify your request for names with the caveat that you were only interested in those people who had made it into print. If that is the case, your list will be no different than anyone elses. On the other hand, if you include Dutch Hunters who are less well known, or unknown to the public, you will have something that seperates you from the crowd, while making your article something "new".

This is just an opinion, so no need to take it the wrong way. My opinion is no better than anyone elses.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Roger]

Tom Kollenborn came to the Phoenix area in 1946 as a young lad. He worked for the Barkley Cattle Ranch in his teenage years and then went off to college after high school. He came back to the Phoenix area later and has been there ever since. Would not say that the LDM brought him to Arizona, although he has had a lifelong relationship with it.

Roger

[LARRY WEBB]

JOE

WHY IS IT THAT YOU THINK JIM BARK'S ACCOUNT OF JOE DEERING IS
THE CORRECT ONE? NOT MENTIONING THE TWO SOLDIERS, ETC.

LARRY

[Jan]

Joe,

I always thought Chuning learned about the mine from Deering?
Being in print is not a criteria, but if there is no recorded history about a person then I have no story to tell about them right?

Roger,

I have a list of 212 names. I need to truncate the list in a big way. The real thrust of what I want to write is about the people that came to look for the Gold of the Superstitions. It doesn't really matter if they called it the Dutchman, or Two Soldiers, Dr. Thorn, Jesuit Treasure or whatever. In my mind I sort of link them all together into the Gold of the Superstitions. What does matter is that once they came to Arizona and started looking for it, they remained determined to keep looking for it.

Bark and Ely probably had the best chance of finding it than anyone before them or since. Yet they both gave up on it. I am reaching out for something significant in the men that never gave up on the search. Some common denominator that stands them out from the multitude of others that have come and gone.

Each one of the men I have on my list seem to have rational and sane backgrounds. Some of them had very professional backgrounds and could easily be categorized as over-achievers in their profession. ie: According to my research Chuck Aylor was a Gourmet Cook, Abe Reid was a School Teacher, Bob Ward ran a newspaper for a while. I'm sure most of you are aware of some of the accomplishments of the others.

My point is that they are or were not dummies that were too stupid to figure out if it was all a hoax. Something convinced each and every one of them that it did exist and that it was "findable". If that were not the case they all would have gone back to whatever they were doing it before they came to Arizona and forgot about it.

Everyone that comes to this forum is looking for that one clue or landmark that will inspire them to join in or get back into the search. Do or did the men on my list find that one landmark they needed in the mountains or did they bring that one clue to Arizona with them when they came? What is it that keeps or kept their interest when so many others have given up?

These questions intrigue me almost as much as the Legend itself. Is it just a coincidence that none of the living men on my list particapate in this forum? (Not as far as I know anyway) You have to believe they all know it is here. Sorry I am getting off track. I didn't intend to go there. That is not what my article is about. I just want to identify the searchers that never gave up and highlight the fact that they were not just dreamers but were intellegent men that had the abilities to pursue other interests but chose not to.

Jan

[Jan]

Roger,

Thanks for the information,

Do you know if it is true that Tom Kollenborn's father was a Dutchman Hunter and is it possible that that is what originally brought the Kollenborn family to Arizona?

Jan

[Joe Ribaudo]

Larry,

Good question. It is not one that I haven't considered before.

I have been told, by people whw should know the facts, that when Sims Ely pukt his book together, he was under a lot of pressure from the Bark familly to not use all of the information in the Bark Notes. When Bark wrote his notes, he was under pressure from no one.

We now have the Bark Notes, and there isn't a nickles worth of difference in any that I have seen.

John Chuning became partners with Jim Bark. He received his information directly from Joe Deering and passed it along to Bark. Ely got his Deering story from Bark. The only one that would have changed the story to any degree was Ely.

Logic tells me that the Jim Bark story is closer to the truth than Ely's. There are other clues which convince me I am correct here. I am not able to say why at this time.

Others may disagree, but opinions are what this Forum is all about.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[LARRY WEBB]

Joe

I'm a little surprised at your answer! But I too believe Bark's account is
pretty accurate mainly because the two soldiers thing didn't happen so
why make up a story that it did happen. Barry Storm moved that story
from Mt. Ord to fit his story! Don Shade was a close friend of Barry's and
he got that from him. How's your faith in Bark's notes NOW?

Respectfully

Larry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Jan,

"I always thought Chuning learned about the mine from Deering?
Being in print is not a criteria, but if there is no recorded history about a person then I have no story to tell about them right?"

What makes you think that I said anything different about where Chunning got his story?

History is recorded in many different ways. The Apache recorded their history by memory and the passing down of those memories through the generations.

If there is nothing for you to tell, other than what you have read, you have not been listening. This Forum has been the source of a number of stories about people who fit your original profile. Chuck Ribaudo is one, Dale Howard is another. Both men came to Arizona because of Superstition gold, and stayed for the rest of their lives.

It would be refreshing to see someone write about the Dutch Hunters whos stories have never been made public rather than the ones we have all read about before. I have told both Chuck's and Dale's stories on this forum before.

I believe you will find many such stories with a little research.

Good luck and good hunting.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Joe Ribaudo]

Larry,

I am no fan, nor an expert on the "Two Soldiers" story. I am even less of a fan when it comes to the Joe Deering story. On the other hand, I do have a passing familiarity with both stories.

The question is not whether the stories are actually true, but if there is any truth in the stories, which account has the best chance of being true.
For me, that would be "Barks Notes".

The "Bark Notes", in my mind, remain the "best evidence". You will need a bit more than Shade and Storm to shake them from that place.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[LARRY WEBB]

Joe

I'm not disagreeing with you! On page 99 of Don Shade's book he states
that Barry Storm moved that story. I believe that Joe Deering just
happened to be a soldier and that he was not part of the two soldiers
story. I believe he discovered one of the Peralta mines but not the one
the we refer to as the Lost Dutchman. Waltz had two mines that were
Peraltas but only worked one of them. One he called the Quartz and the
other he called the Placer! But Bark's Notes have always been sort of in
question so to speak, from what I've read and this should add some
validity because I believe that he told it like it was.

Respectfully

Larry

[bill711]

Jan; I read from Tom Collenborn,s book that he came to the moutains with his dad and his dad dragged him all over the mtns. looking for a spanish treasure or a shrine. He went to work for Tex and hurt his back and couldn,t cowboy so he went to college and became an educater. He still looked for the elusive treasure after his dad died. NOW I do not care who said what! The line up on the finding of the ldm was The prospecter who told Brownie,s dad- the 2 soldier,s-then deering. Chunning never found didley squat! This all happen in the late 1880,s...NOW There has been several findings of a ledge of gold ore found several times BUT this is not the LDM..

[bill711]

Jan; You also have the Adolf Ruth and the 9 others who came to look and died from accidental gunshots wounds? Bill

[buscar]

This is a listing of well-known and not so well known people who have or are still searching for the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine. Names probably are not being in the proper order.

Six early newspaper articles (dated)

P. C. Bicknell Newspaper Journalist, (1881-1894)

Frank Kirkland and Frank Luke, (1894)

W. A. Kimball and Byrne Jones, (1894)

Robert McKee, (1895-1899)

Charles Rodig and E. Fender, (1899)

J. A. Marshall and W. L. Pinney, (1899)

Julia Thomas, first of the “Dutchman Hunters” knew Jacob Waltz, but never found the mine she died on December 22, 1917, of Bright’s disease.

Rhinehart “Reiney” Petrasch, knew Jacob Waltz, but never found the mine died on February 4, 1943, with a shotgun nearby.

Herman Petrasch (brother of “Reiney”) never found the mine died November 23, 1953, he was 88 years of age.

Gottfried “Peter” Petrasch, (father of Rhinehart and Herman) died May 22, 1914 at the Arizona State Mental Hospital and buried in the hospital cemetery.

Richard “Dick” Holmes, claimed Jacob Waltz, gave him directions and clues to the mine, but died in 1933 without locating the mine.

John Pipps (or Phipps) told Dick Holmes that he knew where the Dutchman Mine was, however, he died without revealing its location. (Brownie Holmes’ 1944 manuscript)

George “Brownie” Holmes, died in 1980, both he and his father Dick Holmes failed to locate the mine.

Two Soldiers, sometime in 1884, found a mine and later were found murdered and said to be buried not far from the Quarter Circle U Ranch.

Joe Deering also spelled Dearing, found a mine and a short time later in 1885, died at the Silver King caused by a cave-in.

John Chuning, worked at the Silver King and was told of the mine by Deering, but never found the mine.

James E. Bark owner of the Quarter Circle U Ranch sold later to his partner, Frank Criswell. In 1907 or 1912, William “Tex” Barkley acquired the Bark-Criswell Ranch near the southern end of Superstition Mountain.

Adolph Ruth arrived at the Barkley Ranch on May 13, 1931 with a “Peralta Map.” Barkley later found Ruth’s remains on the eastern slope of Black Top Mesa on January 8, 1932.

Barry Storm, (John Griffith Climenson) author of THUNDER GOD’S GOLD, passed away in 1971, in the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach, California. He never found the mine.

Walter Gassler, interests begin in 1932. On May 4, 1984 his body was found on the trail above Charleybois Spring. The story goes that gold was found in his backpack.

Ed Piper, hunted for Jesuit Gold, said to have found gold artifacts on Black Top Mesa, died August 13, 1962.

Celeste Maria Jones, hunted for Jesuit Gold, said to have found eighteen gold crosses, (what happened to her is unknown)

Barney Barnard, lived in the Superstitions’ shadows for 59 years and died in 1963 at age 77)

Albert E. Morrow crushed body was found in the Superstitions on September 10, 1970, beneath a boulder in a tunnel caused from a cave-in.

Glenn D. Magill, a 37-year-old private investigator living in Oklahoma City, set out to establish that the account of the legendary mine was untrue, and then became gripped with the idea of finding the mine. With the help of some hundred-year-old Mexican maps, which took months to translate, he and the five men he enrolled in his laborious search for the Lost Dutchman Mine in 1955, failed.

Robert L. Garman, wrote Mystery Gold Of The Superstitions in 1975.

John D Wilburn claims the Lost Dutchman was the Bull Dog Mine west of Goldfield Arizona.

Robert Sikorsky, (author and a geologist once worked for Celeste Maria Jones)

Robert Simpson Jacob, aka “Crazy Jake,” (fraudulent Dutchman Hunter who in 1986 was given a seven-year prison term).

Clay Worst “Dutchman Hunter” was the partner of George “Brownie” Holmes.

In her book, “The Sterling Legend” published in 1972, Estee Conatser “Dutchman Hunter” gives a brief account that involves a party of six men who discovered in a cave, a king’s ransom in gold found in the 1940’s in the Superstition Mountains. This accrued shortly after WW II. The men allegedly loaded all they could possibly carry into bags and then concealed the entrance to the cave as best they could.

Jonathan Burbridge, a professional dowser and treasure hunter who found seven bars of gold in the Superstition Mountains. He died in 1973.

Bob Ward “True Story of the Superstition Mountains” died in 1990.

Tom Kollenborn, author, historian, a geologist and teacher once worked for Tex Barkley. (A RIDE THROUGH TIME by James Swanson and Tom kollenborn tell of other “Dutchman Hunters.”

Bob Corbin Attorney General of Arizona, (1978-90).

Greg Davis (Superstition Mountain Journal)

Ron Feldman (author and owner of the Superstition’s O.K. Corral Stables in Apache Junction Arizona)

Jim Hatt walked away from a lifelong Engineering Career in Commercial Nuclear Power to search for the lost mine.

Jay Fraser (author who believes the mine is east of Carefree, Arizona just off Seven Springs Road near the Circle of Rocks above Camp Creek).

List of people who died while searching for the lost mine

James Cravey, Guy “Hematite” Frink, Dr. John Burns, Joseph Kelley, Martin Zywotho, Franz Harrer, William Richard Harvey, Hilmer Bohen, Walter Mowry and Jay Clapp.

buscar

[Joe Ribaudo]

All,

This is what Jan was looking for.

[Dedicated Dutchman Hunters

I am working on a story that I hope to sell to a Treasure Hunting magazine and am in the process of compiling a list of people that came to Arizona specifically to hunt for the Dutchman‘s mine, never left and continued to search for it the rest of their lives, or are still alive and still looking for it.] (emphasis in bold by Joe)

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[bill711]

Well it,s OK with me, if they will pay something for it?? How did you find out Joe? Did she confess or did you have to pull her big toe,s off? bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

Bill,

How did I find out what she was after??? I read the first post.

Respectfully,

Joe

[bill711]

I do not know how I for- got that item! I must being getting rusty. No one to fight with. I like the way she snipity-snaped and cropped your ears for you! Have you backed up to a mirrow yet and checked to see how big an X aurum cut on your entire rearend ? Just drop your drawers and back up to a mirrow and look back at your HINDER an you will see the evidence of it there. Joe we actually got a little snow the other day- it left just as fast as it came too. may you all have a very merry CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR! bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

Bill,

"Have you backed up to a mirrow yet and checked to see how big an X aurum cut on your entire rearend ? Just drop your drawers and back up to a mirrow and look back at your HINDER an you will see the evidence of it there."

What is your source for that comment? Please go back and drag a quote back to this thread, where Aurum placed said X on my posterior.

When it gets cold enough to snow, I pack up my stuff and go.

Now you make sure and get those pigs and chickens out of the house before you put up that Christmas tree, hear? Those pigs will eat the tree and all them presents, and them chickens will pick over what's left. Tell me I don't know my farm.... stuff.

Merry Christmas to you, my friend.

Respectfully,

Joe

[bill711]

JOE; You know that I don,t drag! Aurum cut his X and then deleted your entire rearend. Before you could retaliate back at him. I did have a parrot in the house recently; she was a pretty bird! I bought a parrot for my brother he decided to try and raise some of them. He has 3 females and 1 male now. Some of them talk alittle, they are real young. The one that I got was only 3 yr,s old. Gentle little bird. My bro. really liked her. No pigs yet Joe, I think the only time that we hear about pigs around here is at the live stock show,s. I don,t know anyone who raises them any more. Used to most people had 1 or 3 of them. BUT no more now. 21 degree right now Joe almost too cold to snow; They say maybe tomorrow nite? bill