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Jesuits in the Superstitions
Moderator: Jesse J. Feldman
Ray's Cursum Perficio Map
Last edited by Jan on Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Translations
Jan,
Any idea what was used to make the translations?
Joe Ribaudo
Any idea what was used to make the translations?
Joe Ribaudo
Cursum Perficio
Ok Jan, all of my marbles are back in the circle. (it IS a new circle tho)
I couldn't resist this. You should have asked me about this drawing a long time ago. Who were you keeping it secret from?
I don't think your secret sentence is going to stay secret for too long. There appears to be a number of copies of this map already in circulation.
Doesn't matter tho, the person I got it from said he stood right on top of the boulder and copied the writing into his pocket notebook. No more than 5 or 6 years ago. Before you ask, No he didn't tell me where it was and I knew better to ask. I would have posted this scan this A.M. but I was waiting for him to return my phone call to see if it was OK. He said that if a copy of it is already posted, go ahead, as long as I didn't put his name with it in any way.
Something interesting about his vewrsion of it. It doesn't have the triangle in it either. I hadn't seen Ray Tucker's version until just now or I would have inquired about why it is not on the verison I am about to post. Betchya anything it was intentionally ommited for the very same reason you left the sentence off. I followed suit and removed the sentence for you before uploading it.
I'll let you know.
redison
I couldn't resist this. You should have asked me about this drawing a long time ago. Who were you keeping it secret from?
I don't think your secret sentence is going to stay secret for too long. There appears to be a number of copies of this map already in circulation.
Doesn't matter tho, the person I got it from said he stood right on top of the boulder and copied the writing into his pocket notebook. No more than 5 or 6 years ago. Before you ask, No he didn't tell me where it was and I knew better to ask. I would have posted this scan this A.M. but I was waiting for him to return my phone call to see if it was OK. He said that if a copy of it is already posted, go ahead, as long as I didn't put his name with it in any way.
Something interesting about his vewrsion of it. It doesn't have the triangle in it either. I hadn't seen Ray Tucker's version until just now or I would have inquired about why it is not on the verison I am about to post. Betchya anything it was intentionally ommited for the very same reason you left the sentence off. I followed suit and removed the sentence for you before uploading it.
I'll let you know.
redison
Last edited by redison on Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cursum Perficio
Since you refuse to go play somewhere else, It's all yours Joe & Bill711
enjoy
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Last edited by Jan on Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Latin handwriting on Ray' version
I worked with it a little Jan. The direct translations are shown below.
I have no idea how to arrange the words in the correct order as they should be in Latin. Seems to be something about the moon being dangerous?????
redison
Online Latin to English translation websites
http://www.freedict.com/onldict/lat.html
http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Latin/
Results for query "cursum perficio":
Latin English
cursum --------- ??????????????? (Other personal resources say it is The/My Journey or Trail)
perficio -------- to do thoroughly, accomplish, bring about, perfected, complete
"The/My Journey is complete"
or
"The/My Trail is perfected"
*******************************************************************************
Results for query Quorum ecctafnlget ut soleo luna (Not sure about spelling)
Latin English
quorum ------------ dangers
ecctafnlget ------- ?????????????
ut -------- when, as.
soleo ----------- to be accustomed, be used to.
luna --------- moon
"dangers ??????????? when to be accustomed moon"
I have no idea how to arrange the words in the correct order as they should be in Latin. Seems to be something about the moon being dangerous?????
redison
Online Latin to English translation websites
http://www.freedict.com/onldict/lat.html
http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Latin/
Results for query "cursum perficio":
Latin English
cursum --------- ??????????????? (Other personal resources say it is The/My Journey or Trail)
perficio -------- to do thoroughly, accomplish, bring about, perfected, complete
"The/My Journey is complete"
or
"The/My Trail is perfected"
*******************************************************************************
Results for query Quorum ecctafnlget ut soleo luna (Not sure about spelling)
Latin English
quorum ------------ dangers
ecctafnlget ------- ?????????????
ut -------- when, as.
soleo ----------- to be accustomed, be used to.
luna --------- moon
"dangers ??????????? when to be accustomed moon"
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How Many Souls Is Enough?
redison,
You said:
"Maybe you subscribe to the idea that the Jesuits were expelled from the New World because they were not saving enough souls?"
Historically, no other order in the New World was as good at bringing new souls to the Catholic Church. Not just the numbers were impressive, but the overall fervor of the converts was amazing.
The Jesuits were expelled because of the jealousies of the other's
in the Courts of Spain. In those days, cutting the other guys throat to gain power, was considered normal.
Most of what has been listed as "treasures" that were kept in the missions, was donated by wealthy patrons of the Jesuits. That is historical fact backed by the original journals of the Jesuits, and letters between the priests and their patrons.
Joe Ribaudo
You said:
"Maybe you subscribe to the idea that the Jesuits were expelled from the New World because they were not saving enough souls?"
Historically, no other order in the New World was as good at bringing new souls to the Catholic Church. Not just the numbers were impressive, but the overall fervor of the converts was amazing.
The Jesuits were expelled because of the jealousies of the other's
in the Courts of Spain. In those days, cutting the other guys throat to gain power, was considered normal.
Most of what has been listed as "treasures" that were kept in the missions, was donated by wealthy patrons of the Jesuits. That is historical fact backed by the original journals of the Jesuits, and letters between the priests and their patrons.
Joe Ribaudo
the heart, the triangle and the gorge
Jan,
Mr. Tucker`s Map is really remarkable.
Try something. Rotate the triangle, and the mine symbol directly to the heart symbol. Then consider:
the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge. Observe the triangle in the middle of the heart.
The question then becomes why do this? Where do we get the direction to take such a step.
Next take a look at the Stone Maps.
Who knows maybe it is nothing.
Regards,
Late 49er
Mr. Tucker`s Map is really remarkable.
Try something. Rotate the triangle, and the mine symbol directly to the heart symbol. Then consider:
the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge. Observe the triangle in the middle of the heart.
The question then becomes why do this? Where do we get the direction to take such a step.
Next take a look at the Stone Maps.
Who knows maybe it is nothing.
Regards,
Late 49er
Jesuit Expulsion
I hear that Joe,
Then I turn on the evening news and form the conclusion that.
Nothing has changed!
This topic was founded on stories about Jesuit items reported to have been found in the Superstition Mountains and Sylvester Mowery's (and others) writings about the Jesuit's being involved in mining activities, in spite of all the recorded history by the Jesuits themselves that suggest otherwise.
I think Jan's intent in starting this topic was in search of stories that supported the things she already believed. Lord knows there is probably just as much information out there that would undermine her beliefs, but it would not be gentlemanly to do it to her in her own thread.
It might not be a bad idea to start a parallel topic with emphisis on the other side of the coin. It might get several times the interest than this side of the coin does, but it would take someone like yourself that believes that way to get it started and keep it going. I would find it interesting to follow both topics.
It would also be interesting to see how the membership divided up into the Jesuit/Stone Maps camp and the Anti Jesuit/Stone Maps camp.
I'll give you a heads up tho before you decide to undertake that task. She is in the process of collecting and preparing a lot of compelling information to support her side. Her biggest problem is going to be obtaining the permission to present it in an open forum.
redison
Then I turn on the evening news and form the conclusion that.
Nothing has changed!
This topic was founded on stories about Jesuit items reported to have been found in the Superstition Mountains and Sylvester Mowery's (and others) writings about the Jesuit's being involved in mining activities, in spite of all the recorded history by the Jesuits themselves that suggest otherwise.
I think Jan's intent in starting this topic was in search of stories that supported the things she already believed. Lord knows there is probably just as much information out there that would undermine her beliefs, but it would not be gentlemanly to do it to her in her own thread.
It might not be a bad idea to start a parallel topic with emphisis on the other side of the coin. It might get several times the interest than this side of the coin does, but it would take someone like yourself that believes that way to get it started and keep it going. I would find it interesting to follow both topics.
It would also be interesting to see how the membership divided up into the Jesuit/Stone Maps camp and the Anti Jesuit/Stone Maps camp.
I'll give you a heads up tho before you decide to undertake that task. She is in the process of collecting and preparing a lot of compelling information to support her side. Her biggest problem is going to be obtaining the permission to present it in an open forum.
redison
Stone Crosses and Latin Heart
Since you refuse to go play somewhere else, It's all yours Joe & Bill711
enjoy
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Last edited by Jan on Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
J,s in the Sp,s
JAN; Remember that HOME is where the HEART is!!! I love the pic,s.. Could it be from his stone house ?? bill
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Plucking Out The Heart
Late,
"the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge. Observe the triangle in the middle of the heart."
So if you have all three in sight, while standing in one place, what does it mean? If I were to take you to such a place, would you know where to go from there? Would you also need to throw the Stone Maps into the mix?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
"the direction of my mine is the narrow gorge. Observe the triangle in the middle of the heart."
So if you have all three in sight, while standing in one place, what does it mean? If I were to take you to such a place, would you know where to go from there? Would you also need to throw the Stone Maps into the mix?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Three Stones
Jan,
There is some meaning to the fact that your picture shows three stones, but for the life of me, I can't remember what it is.
Nice artifacts.
Joe Ribaudo
There is some meaning to the fact that your picture shows three stones, but for the life of me, I can't remember what it is.
Nice artifacts.
Joe Ribaudo
Three stones in the picture
Since you refuse to go play somewhere else, It's all yours Joe & Bill711
enjoy
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Last edited by Jan on Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
J.s in the sup,s
Jan I,m still studying the 3 Vs the 1 ExPerment? I don,t have the time right now. Now don,t get exited But I think Joe had sompin in mind when he asked his questions. Bill
Joe's question
Since you refuse to go play somewhere else, It's all yours Joe & Bill711
enjoy
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Last edited by Jan on Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
J,s in the Sup,s
Ok Jan I think Joe was asking if you think there was any significents in there being 3 stones? bill
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Jan,
I have enjoyed your posts, you bring a different perspective, and what apprears to be a solid research background to the forum. But, you need to take your own advise and get your marbles back in play. There is no way we are always going to aggree on every topic or even how it is presented. Many of us just need to grow thicker skin and not grab on to every disagreement as a personal attack. Just my oppinion.
I have enjoyed your posts, you bring a different perspective, and what apprears to be a solid research background to the forum. But, you need to take your own advise and get your marbles back in play. There is no way we are always going to aggree on every topic or even how it is presented. Many of us just need to grow thicker skin and not grab on to every disagreement as a personal attack. Just my oppinion.
murphy
J,s in the Sup,s
To All; Since when has a QUESTION or a COMMENT become an ATTACK on another member??? bill
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Deleated
Now Jesse,
I was being pretty nice there. No need to deleat a post that tells it like it is. Good thing I backed it up on the First Amendment Forum.
Keep up the good work, I was just seeing if you were on your toes.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I was being pretty nice there. No need to deleat a post that tells it like it is. Good thing I backed it up on the First Amendment Forum.
Keep up the good work, I was just seeing if you were on your toes.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo