This is the reference:
Life Magizne, June 12, 1964, Article Title "Mysterious Maps to Lost Gold Mines"
I had a chance to read it a few times. Wonderful "Life" type story with pictures. It was a "These guys are close and here's why" kind of story. Just enough to get a Dutch Hunter hooked.
Good Luck.
The Stone Maps
Stone Map References
Here are a couple of other references on the Peralta Stone Maps from the 1970's that contain either drawings or photo's of the maps - all show the dagger in place:
1. "Are the Peralta Stone Maps a Hoax?" by Bernice and Jack McGee. Article in Frontier Times, April-May 1973 issue, pages 12-13 and 47-57.
2. "The Peralta Cache" by Earnest W. Larson. Published 1977 by Mavern Company Publications, Stockton, CA.
The interesting ending to Larson's book is that he claims to have found a Peralta cache on the south side of Black Top. He didn't elaborate on what or how much - just a cache which he claims the stone maps led him to.
Roger
1. "Are the Peralta Stone Maps a Hoax?" by Bernice and Jack McGee. Article in Frontier Times, April-May 1973 issue, pages 12-13 and 47-57.
2. "The Peralta Cache" by Earnest W. Larson. Published 1977 by Mavern Company Publications, Stockton, CA.
The interesting ending to Larson's book is that he claims to have found a Peralta cache on the south side of Black Top. He didn't elaborate on what or how much - just a cache which he claims the stone maps led him to.
Roger
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Joe Ribaudo
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Black Top Mesa
Roger,
In what year did Larson claim to have found his "cache" on the south side of Black Top? As I look back on the history (public and private) of that particular area, it is hard to believe that anything was left untouched. It is always possible, but his claim are so vague it seems unlikely that he found anything.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
In what year did Larson claim to have found his "cache" on the south side of Black Top? As I look back on the history (public and private) of that particular area, it is hard to believe that anything was left untouched. It is always possible, but his claim are so vague it seems unlikely that he found anything.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Life Magazine
Knun, Joe
Thanks for the reference, I am going to the library today to look at that article, I want to see the stones as they were in the 60's. After your and Joe's post about the stones the other day I have looked at the stones out of Dr. Glovers book and compared them to the picture's I took that weekend. I believe the stones are the same, they have certian depressions around the edges that match up where they should be. I want to compare them to the pictures in the 60's. In the book of Dr. Glovers the stones are not sitting on the Priest/ Horse map, that has to be a piece wood of some sort as Joe stated in his post. The picture in Dr. Glovers book most definately has been altered for some reason, someone thought the knife was some bit of vital informion and erased it. I am suprized Glover didn't mention that in his book, as far as not having pictures of the Priest/Horse map, maybe the original photo of them was not in good shape, who knows. Joe, I know you belive they may be a fake, but because there is not a photo of them like the others, I dont think that is an indication of them being fake.
rochha
.
Thanks for the reference, I am going to the library today to look at that article, I want to see the stones as they were in the 60's. After your and Joe's post about the stones the other day I have looked at the stones out of Dr. Glovers book and compared them to the picture's I took that weekend. I believe the stones are the same, they have certian depressions around the edges that match up where they should be. I want to compare them to the pictures in the 60's. In the book of Dr. Glovers the stones are not sitting on the Priest/ Horse map, that has to be a piece wood of some sort as Joe stated in his post. The picture in Dr. Glovers book most definately has been altered for some reason, someone thought the knife was some bit of vital informion and erased it. I am suprized Glover didn't mention that in his book, as far as not having pictures of the Priest/Horse map, maybe the original photo of them was not in good shape, who knows. Joe, I know you belive they may be a fake, but because there is not a photo of them like the others, I dont think that is an indication of them being fake.
rochha
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Thomas Glover
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- Contact:
Gentlemen,
Good morning. The forum is interesting, but unfortunately (or otherwise) I do not read it daily, sometimes not even regularly. Even when I do read it I may skip whole threads.
This morning, however, I have had the opportunity to do some catching up, and find that I am supposed to have been contacting the Davis brothers (about the Stone Maps), researching the photo of the Stone Maps, and some other things I did not know I was doing. Sorry, but the Stone Maps do not hold much interest for me and when it comes to having time and inclination to do research they are not close to the top of my list. If someone has a question that they feel in some small way I might be able to help with email me directly or through the forum, I try to answer all such queries. If I could put the Stone maps in an historical context or frame work then they would hold more interest. And in that regard I have been most interested in Aurum’s point about the dangers of fire – well taken, and Azmula’s research. What I wonder though is why no one seems to have done any simply microscopy of the Stone Maps. The type of tools used to make them have most probably left tell-tale marks, and there are geology scopes that are made for examining large objects, like the Stone Maps. These are simple light scopes and not that uncommon.
As for the photo on page 337 of the Stone Maps, I have gone back and checked it against the original I have that was given me by the Davis brothers. The brightish spot where the dagger is located appears the same on the original as in the book. I have not checked other items. For what it is worth I had always thought that the bright spot referred to was the result of a glare/the lighting, or developing. As for the Davis brothers they are not someone you just ring up and say tell me such and such. They are retired, they have little to no interest in the subject anymore, it has been over 40 years since they were involved and trying to remember details from 40 years ago is not necessarily a given, and one of them is often out of the country on missionary work in India. Without good reason I am not going to bother them for something that does not interest them from 40 years ago. It would be rude to do otherwise.
As for another Dutchman book, maybe yes, maybe no. If there is another book it could well be on education. Yes, I would like to do another on the Dutchman, largely because of new findings, but choices have to be made for me as for all of you.
TE Glover
Good morning. The forum is interesting, but unfortunately (or otherwise) I do not read it daily, sometimes not even regularly. Even when I do read it I may skip whole threads.
This morning, however, I have had the opportunity to do some catching up, and find that I am supposed to have been contacting the Davis brothers (about the Stone Maps), researching the photo of the Stone Maps, and some other things I did not know I was doing. Sorry, but the Stone Maps do not hold much interest for me and when it comes to having time and inclination to do research they are not close to the top of my list. If someone has a question that they feel in some small way I might be able to help with email me directly or through the forum, I try to answer all such queries. If I could put the Stone maps in an historical context or frame work then they would hold more interest. And in that regard I have been most interested in Aurum’s point about the dangers of fire – well taken, and Azmula’s research. What I wonder though is why no one seems to have done any simply microscopy of the Stone Maps. The type of tools used to make them have most probably left tell-tale marks, and there are geology scopes that are made for examining large objects, like the Stone Maps. These are simple light scopes and not that uncommon.
As for the photo on page 337 of the Stone Maps, I have gone back and checked it against the original I have that was given me by the Davis brothers. The brightish spot where the dagger is located appears the same on the original as in the book. I have not checked other items. For what it is worth I had always thought that the bright spot referred to was the result of a glare/the lighting, or developing. As for the Davis brothers they are not someone you just ring up and say tell me such and such. They are retired, they have little to no interest in the subject anymore, it has been over 40 years since they were involved and trying to remember details from 40 years ago is not necessarily a given, and one of them is often out of the country on missionary work in India. Without good reason I am not going to bother them for something that does not interest them from 40 years ago. It would be rude to do otherwise.
As for another Dutchman book, maybe yes, maybe no. If there is another book it could well be on education. Yes, I would like to do another on the Dutchman, largely because of new findings, but choices have to be made for me as for all of you.
TE Glover
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Joe Ribaudo
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A Simple Question
Dr. Glover,
I am trying to remember if anyone placed such a task on you as you have described. More likely someone suggested that you were the only one who could tell us if the picture of the Stone Maps in your book may have been altered and that information could only come from your source for the picture. You have now told us that asking that source is not something you would care to do, and that should end it for those of us who are being a little persistant.
While the Stone Maps are only of passing interest to you, they are of great importance to many of the members of this forum. While some have voiced a boredom with the topic, it does not take much to determine that the Stone Map topic is the most popular thread to date. The people who view the thread in such numbers, obviously have more than a passing interest in the topic.
Your books have placed you at the top of the knowledge ladder for all other (published) authors and many of the serious researchers on this topic. It is only natural that we come to you with our questions. As I have said many times before, we have a right to ask questions, you have the right to decline to answer.
You and the work you have done deserve respect from us all. Don't let the few who are "chewing rocks" over your success turn you away from the rest of us. That phrase means to be jealous or envious.
I look forward to your response to my E-mail.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]
I am trying to remember if anyone placed such a task on you as you have described. More likely someone suggested that you were the only one who could tell us if the picture of the Stone Maps in your book may have been altered and that information could only come from your source for the picture. You have now told us that asking that source is not something you would care to do, and that should end it for those of us who are being a little persistant.
While the Stone Maps are only of passing interest to you, they are of great importance to many of the members of this forum. While some have voiced a boredom with the topic, it does not take much to determine that the Stone Map topic is the most popular thread to date. The people who view the thread in such numbers, obviously have more than a passing interest in the topic.
Your books have placed you at the top of the knowledge ladder for all other (published) authors and many of the serious researchers on this topic. It is only natural that we come to you with our questions. As I have said many times before, we have a right to ask questions, you have the right to decline to answer.
You and the work you have done deserve respect from us all. Don't let the few who are "chewing rocks" over your success turn you away from the rest of us. That phrase means to be jealous or envious.
I look forward to your response to my E-mail.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Fakes?
Rochha,
I have scanned and enhanced the picture in Dr. Glover's book and compared them to the Stone Maps in the museum. They are not the same maps. They are a very precise copy of the maps in the photo, but under close examination you can find some things that show they are not the same stones. That is not surprising to me. The most glaring thing that jumps off the picture in Dr. Glover's book is the break in the stone that runs from just above the lower left hand corner and runs on an angle to the bottom center of the stone. You do not need an enhanced picture to see this break. There is no such break in the Museum stone. There are other inconsistencies that are not difficult to find.
The Travis Marlowe "book" was published in 1965. The Stone Map shown on page 32 has already replaced the original at that date. There was no good reason to make new maps, other than to change what was to be released to the public, and lead the searchers who would be seaking the treasure astray.
I could, of course, be wrong.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I have scanned and enhanced the picture in Dr. Glover's book and compared them to the Stone Maps in the museum. They are not the same maps. They are a very precise copy of the maps in the photo, but under close examination you can find some things that show they are not the same stones. That is not surprising to me. The most glaring thing that jumps off the picture in Dr. Glover's book is the break in the stone that runs from just above the lower left hand corner and runs on an angle to the bottom center of the stone. You do not need an enhanced picture to see this break. There is no such break in the Museum stone. There are other inconsistencies that are not difficult to find.
The Travis Marlowe "book" was published in 1965. The Stone Map shown on page 32 has already replaced the original at that date. There was no good reason to make new maps, other than to change what was to be released to the public, and lead the searchers who would be seaking the treasure astray.
I could, of course, be wrong.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Peralta Stones
Fellow Dutchman Enthusiasts,
Hello, I ran across this post in another forum talking about the Peralta Stones and The Lost Dutchman. Follow this link and scroll down to the comment made by the Ouachita Treasure Consulting.
http://pub69.ezboard.com/fancientlosttr ... 41&stop=46
Rochha
Hello, I ran across this post in another forum talking about the Peralta Stones and The Lost Dutchman. Follow this link and scroll down to the comment made by the Ouachita Treasure Consulting.
http://pub69.ezboard.com/fancientlosttr ... 41&stop=46
Rochha
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Joe Ribaudo
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Found?
Rochha,
I have been a member of that site for quite a while now. I don't post on it very often. There are some real screwballs over there. Come to think of it.........
There are not several answers as to where the Stone Maps lead. That means (for me) that they have found nothing. It will be interesting to see when they go public with this "find". It would also be interesting to know if they used all of the maps to find this "vault" or only one or two, and if only one or two, which one(s)?
Some of the first questions that comes to mind is: How did the perps' get the manifest listing the Stone Maps into the church in Sonora? If it is a hoax, do they know who created the maps? I am pretty sure who created the Priest/Horse Map but what about the trail maps?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I have been a member of that site for quite a while now. I don't post on it very often. There are some real screwballs over there. Come to think of it.........
There are not several answers as to where the Stone Maps lead. That means (for me) that they have found nothing. It will be interesting to see when they go public with this "find". It would also be interesting to know if they used all of the maps to find this "vault" or only one or two, and if only one or two, which one(s)?
Some of the first questions that comes to mind is: How did the perps' get the manifest listing the Stone Maps into the church in Sonora? If it is a hoax, do they know who created the maps? I am pretty sure who created the Priest/Horse Map but what about the trail maps?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stone Maps
Joe,
I just recently became a member of that site, dont do too much posting over there. Have you ever heard of the company that is making that claim? I think as well that their is only one place they can take you to, whether they have found it or not remains to be seen. I myself dont believe too much in the KGC.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see if anyone makes any kind of public statement, I know that if I was part of that company and someone made a post like that I would be a little pissed!!!
Rochha
I just recently became a member of that site, dont do too much posting over there. Have you ever heard of the company that is making that claim? I think as well that their is only one place they can take you to, whether they have found it or not remains to be seen. I myself dont believe too much in the KGC.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see if anyone makes any kind of public statement, I know that if I was part of that company and someone made a post like that I would be a little pissed!!!
Rochha
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Joe Ribaudo
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AGE
What if the Stone Maps show a treasure from a much earlier period than we imagine? There is some indication that the markings at the Twin Buttes could be hundreds of years older than the popular reading of 1847.
That date seems to have been placed on the buttes much later than the rest of the symbols. The 1847 on the Stone Maps seems to have been done at a different time than the rest of the map, or at least by another hand.
Could the treasure we seek have been hidden in Mexico for generations and later moved to the Superstitions and perhaps other locations?
Is there anything that could tie such a treasure to an earlier time in the history of Mesoamerica? I believe it is possible to make such a connection as early as 1518.
While there is no historical documentation that such a (stolen) treasure existed from the connection I speak of, there is considerable documentation that it is possible. A lot of gold passing through the hands of one man and in numbers that seem small compared to what was being gathered from the people of Montezuma. Did he conspire with others to hide the Kings Royal Fifth and only send a pittance to the monarch? Did that "Royal Fifth" end up in the hands of the Jesuits or the Peraltas?
The thin thread that ties all of this to the treasures in the Superstitions is the name,
"Grijalva".
This is all conjecture, so.... of course, I could be wrong.
Historical coincidence, again?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
That date seems to have been placed on the buttes much later than the rest of the symbols. The 1847 on the Stone Maps seems to have been done at a different time than the rest of the map, or at least by another hand.
Could the treasure we seek have been hidden in Mexico for generations and later moved to the Superstitions and perhaps other locations?
Is there anything that could tie such a treasure to an earlier time in the history of Mesoamerica? I believe it is possible to make such a connection as early as 1518.
While there is no historical documentation that such a (stolen) treasure existed from the connection I speak of, there is considerable documentation that it is possible. A lot of gold passing through the hands of one man and in numbers that seem small compared to what was being gathered from the people of Montezuma. Did he conspire with others to hide the Kings Royal Fifth and only send a pittance to the monarch? Did that "Royal Fifth" end up in the hands of the Jesuits or the Peraltas?
The thin thread that ties all of this to the treasures in the Superstitions is the name,
"Grijalva".
This is all conjecture, so.... of course, I could be wrong.
Historical coincidence, again?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Bandit,
For a little more information on the subject, you can also check out page 13 and 14 of this topic.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
For a little more information on the subject, you can also check out page 13 and 14 of this topic.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
He Who Yawns
Was named Jerome or Jeronimo...I thought the massacure of the indians by the mexi soldiers was in 1835???? bill
carrot and donkey
S.C. ; There you go again confusing the donkey cart with the stones. We are talking lost dutchman here and you keep talking about 1949 1st grade stuff. YES I have seen the coloring book too and it has nothing to do with the stones. We are talking 1848 stuff here. Your as bad as Rose. How old are you anyway?? If you started at queen creek and the maps lead you to the 4 peaks ares, one of your x would be as big as a mile. The maps tell you exactly what they were meant to tell you. I took one look and I started at the mill and followed the southern trail south until I came up and over the elephant head humps and bingo I found a hole, a bung hole, If you dig here you will probily strike gas instead of oro. Now get get on the right page and no more coloring book stories. bill
Joe,
just a hunch, but I suspect the stone maps may indeed be older than 1847. That date just feels too recent to me. My feeling is that the numbers do not represent a date.
I usually stay away from posts I am unsure of, but what the heck...
I just thought I'd bring this thread back to the forefront, so Wyatt could get a good look at the number of views this thread has had.
Laz
just a hunch, but I suspect the stone maps may indeed be older than 1847. That date just feels too recent to me. My feeling is that the numbers do not represent a date.
I usually stay away from posts I am unsure of, but what the heck...
I just thought I'd bring this thread back to the forefront, so Wyatt could get a good look at the number of views this thread has had.
Laz
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Joe Ribaudo
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Stone Map Numbers
Lazarus,
You are in good company in believing that the 1847 on the Stone Maps is a code, rather than a date. It has been said many times on this thread, and I believe Azmula subscribes to that theory.
I also believe the maps are much older than the 1847 date. I don't think you would have to read back very far in this thread to find me mentioning that.
I don't think the maps were left where they were found, with a purpose.
I believe they were left there under some kind of duress. I also believe they were left there in 1847.
As for which thread has the most views/replies, despite what some people have stated on this forum, there is no doubt that the Stone Maps are the most popular and most discussed topic on the site. If you add up all of the "Stone Map" topics, it would be staggering. The Stone Maps are the Kings here, by a landslide.
What happened to ASUgrad? He was just starting to be a real.....
er.
No doubt this reply falls into the "nuttier" category.
Respectfully,
Joe
You are in good company in believing that the 1847 on the Stone Maps is a code, rather than a date. It has been said many times on this thread, and I believe Azmula subscribes to that theory.
I also believe the maps are much older than the 1847 date. I don't think you would have to read back very far in this thread to find me mentioning that.
I don't think the maps were left where they were found, with a purpose.
I believe they were left there under some kind of duress. I also believe they were left there in 1847.
As for which thread has the most views/replies, despite what some people have stated on this forum, there is no doubt that the Stone Maps are the most popular and most discussed topic on the site. If you add up all of the "Stone Map" topics, it would be staggering. The Stone Maps are the Kings here, by a landslide.
What happened to ASUgrad? He was just starting to be a real.....
er. No doubt this reply falls into the "nuttier" category.
Respectfully,
Joe
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
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- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
Peralta Stone Maps
No News is Good News!
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
KGC?
Billy,
When did I ever say that this was a KGC stash? I have always felt this is a Jesuit stash. So, Billy you discovered all this one day while eating lunch!!! You live and own a company in Tucson. You have told and showed us all that you have found the Lost Dutchman’s Tools, speaking of tools. How do you know they were Jacob Waltz’s, was there a “ JW “ inscribed on them? And yet you found all this while utilizing the stone maps and your ingenuity. So you have found nothing in the Superstitions cause you have not looked there. Care to explain how Jacob Waltz got to Tucson, or in the vicinity they’re of? You have side stepped this question many times, why don’t you just answer it and be done with it. Or is that information not “ declassified “?
Rochha
When did I ever say that this was a KGC stash? I have always felt this is a Jesuit stash. So, Billy you discovered all this one day while eating lunch!!! You live and own a company in Tucson. You have told and showed us all that you have found the Lost Dutchman’s Tools, speaking of tools. How do you know they were Jacob Waltz’s, was there a “ JW “ inscribed on them? And yet you found all this while utilizing the stone maps and your ingenuity. So you have found nothing in the Superstitions cause you have not looked there. Care to explain how Jacob Waltz got to Tucson, or in the vicinity they’re of? You have side stepped this question many times, why don’t you just answer it and be done with it. Or is that information not “ declassified “?
Rochha
Last edited by rochha on Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Bad Quote!
P,
Hey, you left out my .
Respectfully,
Joe
Hey, you left out my
.Respectfully,
Joe
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
No News is Good News
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
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- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
No News is Good News
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Dutchman's Treasures
Wyatt,
What are the "Dutchman Treasures"??? We are so out of touch here on the forum.
What do you consider "recently"?
Can you convince ASUgrad to come out again? He was a lot more fun.
Wouldn't it be something if the Dutchman was in there with the gang, and was just waiting for the right time to manifest himself? Ya never know.
Joe
What are the "Dutchman Treasures"??? We are so out of touch here on the forum.
What do you consider "recently"?
Can you convince ASUgrad to come out again? He was a lot more fun.
Wouldn't it be something if the Dutchman was in there with the gang, and was just waiting for the right time to manifest himself? Ya never know.
Joe
Billy,
Let me see if I have this right, Jacob Waltz made the Peralta Stones, which you believe are associated with Dutchman Treasures? He played this huge joke on everyone letting all believe that he was in the Superstitions when in reality he was somewhere outside of Tucson. I guess all of the eyewitness accounts of people seeing him in the Superstition Mountains and him living in Phoenix were all part of this joke as well.
You say the stones are associated with the Dutchman Treasures and you used those to locate his tools, and the stones are symbolic. You have also hinted that The Kings Coded Method is on them. You have praised yourself because of your “ Teachings “ in this area, who taught Jacob Waltz all this stuff? Where would he have gotten the knowledge to use “ Egyptian Hieroglyphics, Latin Bible, Gematria, Arabic, and Hebrew Languages, Neometria, Signati and Crucisignati “? Who would have helped Jacob Waltz with all of these carvings and boulders and things to leave monuments markers and trail markers to his Dutchman Treasures? That would have been an enormous undertaking for him all by himself!
Did he have a par of “ Kino Shades “ that were made out of church stained glass that show's the infrared spectrum with him as well?
Wow, that is an amazing theory, one that will leave Dutch Hunters scratching their heads for quite sometime!
Rochha
Let me see if I have this right, Jacob Waltz made the Peralta Stones, which you believe are associated with Dutchman Treasures? He played this huge joke on everyone letting all believe that he was in the Superstitions when in reality he was somewhere outside of Tucson. I guess all of the eyewitness accounts of people seeing him in the Superstition Mountains and him living in Phoenix were all part of this joke as well.
You say the stones are associated with the Dutchman Treasures and you used those to locate his tools, and the stones are symbolic. You have also hinted that The Kings Coded Method is on them. You have praised yourself because of your “ Teachings “ in this area, who taught Jacob Waltz all this stuff? Where would he have gotten the knowledge to use “ Egyptian Hieroglyphics, Latin Bible, Gematria, Arabic, and Hebrew Languages, Neometria, Signati and Crucisignati “? Who would have helped Jacob Waltz with all of these carvings and boulders and things to leave monuments markers and trail markers to his Dutchman Treasures? That would have been an enormous undertaking for him all by himself!
Did he have a par of “ Kino Shades “ that were made out of church stained glass that show's the infrared spectrum with him as well?
Wow, that is an amazing theory, one that will leave Dutch Hunters scratching their heads for quite sometime!
Rochha