LDM Mine Descriptions - Your Favorite Clue

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Joe Ribaudo
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Four Peaks

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

walker12,
I only threw that out to generate some discussion on Wiz's comment. I have no faith in any of the clues using the Four Peaks. That does not mean they are not authentic clues, as I am sure others have a different opinion. You have made some interesting observations for someone just out for a hike. :) It's a good idea for all of us to look up, around and behind us frequently.
Joe
Peter
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 7:47 am

Post by Peter »

Walker and Joe,

You both touch upon a very relevant and poignant aspect of "armchair" Dutch Hunting: that is..are the clues handed down from yesteryear able to be understood in the context of todays commonly known landmarks and place names? Was Dick Holmes' First Water, the Government trail to San Carlos and Four Peaks the SAME landmarks as commonly thought of today? Which was the REAL Black Mountain refered to by Ely and Bark?
What about the "window rock", "shadow of the needle", "monumented trail", Havalina Canyon...can any of these clues be looked at in the light of accepted theory today? Or have the real landmarks been lost over time?
Who can say....
Joe Ribaudo
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Not to Worry

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

Your point would be valid except for the fact that there are old timers alive today who knew, talked to, and took notes from the old timers of their youth. Those old timers told them, "Hell! I was there." They had no problems with names. Personally, I prefer to use descriptions, rather then names, to figure out where they were talking about. I am sure that you have used the same methods in your search. Probably not many names in the stories that have lead you to your area of interest, other then (perhaps) the Superstition Mountains and the Salt River. Names have been added to the original stories and may be wrong or purposely misleading. I doubt if Obie and Olive Stoker knew the names of many mountains or canyons when they first entered the Superstitions. I am sure you have talked to people like Al Morrow, Ed Piper, Chuck Aylor, Robert Jacobs, Al Reser, Brownie Holmes and others like them, or at least talked to those who knew them personally. They needed no names on the canyons, peaks and trails to find their way through the difficult maze of the Superstitions.

Joe
charlie
Part Timer
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:08 am
Location: Zachary, LA

Changing Names

Post by charlie »

For one, possibly two, generations I can see names remaining the same. However, names do change over time.

I have noted many Spanish names referenced in the Tubac area which have changed to English names or near variations. Indian names were changed to Spanish variations as the population mix changed.

Just noting the name "Jesus" can be "gees-us" or "hay-sus".

Living in Louisiana I know several Huberts (Oo-bears).

Therefore, as the population mix changed over the years the phonic pronounciation could change.

Also, areas, streets, rivers were often named after the family living there or for some outstanding fact about the area. These can change when a more unique name appears.

References among many and over hundreds of years are not expected to stay constant. Some constant needs to be used.
Charlie
Joe Ribaudo
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

No Language Barrier

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Charlie,
You are correct, which is why descriptions trump names.
Joe
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