Senor Ballesteros and Ruth's driver

[ArmchairHuntress]

A couple more questions have come to mind.

In Mitchell's "Lost Mines of the Great Southwest," in the tale of "Lost Mine of Don Miguel Peralta," it says: "The following information was given to the writer by Senor Jose Ballesteros de Madrid at his large cattle ranch in Southern Sonora in 1910. Ballesteros died in the year 1912 at the age of 93 years."

Granted, I haven't read every post here yet, but I don't believe I've seen any mention of this Ballesteros here in the forum. I did a quick Google, and there were lots of Jose Ballesteros', even a Jose Ballesteros Peralta, no less, but these are all mostly living here and now, and none a 'de Madrid.'

Mitchell goes on to say that "In the year 1849 Jose Ballesteros de Madrid with two Franciscan priests and fifteen Mexican adventurers sallied forth from the City of Mexico and headed for the California gold fields. This Mexican claims to have located the mine on the Comstock lode in Nevada a few years later, which is still called the Mexican Mine. After selling his mine for a few thousand dollars, Ballesteros came to the Rio Salado, or Salt River country, and joined a friend by the name of Don Miguel Peralta who was working a fabulously rich mine in the foothills of the rugged Supersition Mountains." Mitchell goes on to say that Ballesteros and Miguel hook up with Antonio Peralta, the father of Miguel. Mitchell says "After his (Ballesteros) experience in the roaring mining camps of California and Nevada and with the blood-thirsty Apaches in Arizona, Ballesteros now considered himself a tough hombre from the Rio Salado and shortly thereafter joined a Pirate ship operating near the Isthmus of Panama..."

The only Ballesteros I know of is pursuing golf, not gold. Has this Ballesteros been researched before? Do we know anything about him? Did he really exist? What about family members, descendants?

Next question:

Again, not having read every post here, I don't know if this has been discussed already, either.

I've read that Adoph Ruth was driven to Arizona by a young man, and was, as I understand it, to get a ride to Arizona in exchange for doing the driving. Apparently Ruth's daughter did not know who this person was? Did anyone? Was his identity ever discovered? I take it they drove Ruth's car? And drove to Phoenix? Was the young man still driving when Ruth arrived at the Quarter Circle U? When did he depart from Ruth? In Phoenix, or at the ranch? Did anyone in Arizona see this young man? Talk to him?

I was just thinking, what if it were me that had made arrangements to share a ride with someone, and later, I found out that person died shortly after, and in unusual circumstances? Being innocent of any crime, I would be freaked. I guess my first instinct would be to say "hey! I was with that person, I drove him to such and such a place!" "He was alive and well when I saw him!" I'd want to help figure out what happened. I'd want it to be known that I was innocent.

So I would think that the young person who drove Ruth, being innocent of any crime, would speak out and say hey! That was me who drove him, and he was fine and dandy when last I saw him!

Then, on a second think-through, I might not say anything. Even if I was purely innocent, had done nothing more than arrange a ride to the mutual satisfaction of both parties, I could see where keeping silent might be preferable to opening up your life for inspection by authorities, press, strangers, etc.

Anyway, those are my two questions for today ~ what do we know about Senor Ballesteros, and what, if anything, do we know about the young man who drove Ruth to Arizona?

By the way, my first name is Brenda.

[zentull]

The young man who shared the ride with Ruth was heading for Washington and shared the ride as far as Phoenix. He is reffered to as a student and a friend. He may have been looking for a ride home at the end of the school year. He went as far as a gas station where they got directions to the Bark ranch, now owned by Barkley. There the young man went his own way seeing that Ruth had come to his destination.

I seriously doubt that his identity was unknown after all was said and done. However, he was probably hundreds of miles away before Ruth entered the mountains. I can't remember where but I have read he was questioned about Ruths disappearance. Besides, there were too many good suspects closer by. Check out Ron Feldmans "Crooked Trail " for a different take on the Murder.

[ArmchairHuntress]

Thanks, Zentull, for the information. Yes, I understand that there are other suspects, but I'd just never heard anything about Ruth's driver, so my enquiring mind just wanted to know.

Thanks again!

[bill711]

Brenda balo was paralta,s cousin, NOW find out which paralta had a store close to the sup,s and had a mine, and did business " bought supply,s" from the GOLDWATER store in phinix??? look it up and tell us about it OKAY??? bill

[ArmchairHuntress]

look it up and tell us about it OKAY??? bill

Alright, I will. It's a busy day at work today, and my fiance's sister is coming up from Eugene for a visit today, so I might not get at this until later, but we shall see what I can find!

[TGH]

Oh boy, here we go again...................Pretty smart twist on being a female this time. You havent been a chick since you offed your buddy Jan.

You obviously have this deep psychological need to try and fool folks.

Man you are a wacko..........

[ArmchairHuntress]

Excuse me, but I am who I say I am. I am a female, first name of Brenda, living in Oregon. Like I said, because of a kid's novel (Sherriff) I read back when I was around 10 or so, along with a wacky science teacher in 7th and 8th grade, my interest in the Dutchman mine was fostered.

If you like, I can post a photo of my Jack Russell terrier, my '66 Datsun Roadster, a photo of my fiance, my son, and yes, even a photo of myself. Born and raised in Portland, and lasted only 3 weeks in Houston when I moved there at the age of 18. I fared better at Ft. Stewart, Georgia, when my ex-husband was stationed there in the Army during the 80's. I lasted 14 months in Georgia.

I have lots of shoes and clothes, but spend a minimal amount of time on hair and makeup. Jackson Browne is Everyman, and Little Feat rocks.

Or should I just have my son give you a call?

[TGH]

lol

Well if you are who you say you are, my apologies, ma'am. We have a forum nutbag who likes to pose as different personalities, and his posts resemble yours at times....gives details about his new "persona" etc.... When most newbies join the forum, they dont go into much detail about their location, their families etc etc.

And sure you can shoot me an email at [email protected] Always happy to chitchat with a pretty girl.....hope its not from a hotmail account tho....

Peter

[ArmchairHuntress]

lol

When most newbies join the forum, they dont go into much detail about their location, their families etc etc.

And sure you can shoot me an email at [email protected] Always happy to chitchat with a pretty girl.....hope its not from a hotmail account tho....

Peter

LOL, I suspect thats because most of your forum members are male, and most males don't go into a lot of detail about personal stuff. Besides, I had to prove that I'm not your "wacko persona changer!" I have nothing to hide, and while I might say "try and find me," thinking that it would be pretty hard to pinpoint "Brenda, female, age undisclosed (lol, you will notice that I did NOT volunteer that information), lives in Portland, OR, has Jack Russell terrier, '66 Datsun roadster," I'll bet it might not be as hard as I think!

Not that you'll find anything, except that my credit rating sucks, and that my last traffic infraction was almost 7 or so years ago...

I like to chitchat too, but mostly with my fiance, lol. I'm sure you'll be able to find lots of pretty girls to chat with though! I will, however, look forward to your continued posting here at the forum!

[TGH]

OK. Interesting response.

P

[Joe Ribaudo]

A.H.,

I figure early sixties, give or take a couple of years. That would place your D.O.B. in the 1960-65 era.

Is your son still living at home, or are you living with him?

Just trying to narrow down the possibilities.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[ArmchairHuntress]

Of course. I'm always interesting.

Actually, I'm quite a rockhound, but I just don't know much about 'em. I've spent a lot of time at the Oregon coast, and streams and rivers, poking around and picking up interesting rocks and shells. I don't know half of what I've picked up, I should sort them all someday and try to identify them.

I can blame being a rockhound on my dad. He was born and raised in Monte Vista, CO. When he was a young boy, he found some Moqui marbles buried in the dirt near their farm. He had no idea what they were, but hung on to them and a few years ago he gave them to me. I had no idea what they were either, until I walked into the Fossil Cartel in downtown and saw some on display. I have ten of them, the biggest about the size of a racquetball, and the rest are each just a size smaller than the one before it, with the last one being two marbles that did not seperate, it looks like a peanut. Anyway, when he showed me those rocks back when I was a kid, that started me looking at, and picking up rocks.

So, that's it, again, no I'm not a wacko personality changer, but I may have rocks in my head...

[ArmchairHuntress]

A.H.,

I figure early sixties, give or take a couple of years. That would place your D.O.B. in the 1960-65 era.

Is your son still living at home, or are you living with him?

Joe Ribaudo

Not bad, not bad at all.

No, thank goodness, son is not living at home, and I'm far, far away from living with him in my dotage.

It must have been my reference to Jackson Browne that gave my age away...

[Joe Ribaudo]

A.H.,

Not at all. It was your reference to when your ex-husband was stationed at Ft. Stewert. A few assumptions as to 21 being the prevalent age, your being close to that, and......

You should be very careful as to how much information you give out on this site. There are some folks here who are really good at taking a little information and turning it into your life story.

Some, like myself, are very open and don't mind folks knowing who they are or where they live. That is seen as pretty foolish by many here, but I have never had a problem from having that information available.

I am not good at trying to use another ID, as Peter will vouch for.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[ArmchairHuntress]

A.H.,

You should be very careful as to how much information you give out on this site. There are some folks here who are really good at taking a little information and turning it into your life story.

I am not good at trying to use another ID, as Peter will vouch for.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

Yeah, this is not my first forum, but it is my first Dutchman Forum. I thank you for your words of caution, and appreciate it. However, I have nothing to hide, and nothing to steal either (see below regarding my credit rating, lol).

All right. You know my city and state of residence, my approximate age, what car I drive, what dog I have, where my dad was born, where my ex was stationed once, where I tried to move to once, that my fiance's sister is coming up from Eugene for a visit, which Dutchman books I've read, the fact that I had a wacky science teacher in 7th and 8th grade, that I like shoes and clothes but don't spend a lot of time with hair or makeup, that I have Moqui marbles, that I have a son, my music tastes, and that my credit sucks and that I have no outstanding traffic tickets (oh, wait, no outstanding moving violations, lol, there is one parking ticket).

Now, if someone can take that information, and come back and tell me my last name, what my street address is, and where I work, I'll be impressed.

Hmmmm, it'd be kind of like taking a bunch of clues:

From my mine you can see the Military trail, but you can't see the mine from the trail.
Standing at the mine's entrance Weaver's Needle is at 4 O'Clock
The afternoon sun shines through a split (or hole) in a rock formation and falls directly into the mine (the mine's opening faces west).
There is a rock face on the trail to my mine

And seeing where you end up!

Again, if someone can take that information, and come back and tell me my last name (not to mention my maiden name and my mother's maiden name, lol), what my street address is, and where I work, I'll be impressed. Of course, if someone here could do that, why, I'd imagine the mystery of the LDM would truly be no mystery!

[Joe Ribaudo]

A.H.,

There is a tendency to tease a little, and offer a bit of information here and a touch there, just to see how brilliant or stupid this crowd really is.

My warning was: "You should be very careful as to how much information you give out on this site." That still stands as the truth. The things you have said, so far, are hardly "TMI". The warning was for future revelations.

Anyone who would try to trace you from the information you have given, so far, would truly be an idiot. Some would swear I qualify for that label, and I would never argue the point.

Like Peter, I have some reservations about you, but I won't let that change the tone of my posts. I have noticed a few of Jim's old IDs looking in on the Forum lately and we have a small flood of new members, like you, coming on line. Usually a sure indication he is back.

I urged the last "suspect" to find someone he trusts and get in touch with that person. Just to clear the air, some personal information exchanged, and they could vouch for you. The only reason for doing that, would be to open dialog without any reservations.

This is the point where our old friend would go off the deep end and leave in a huff. This Forum is worth participating in for anyone interested in the history of the LDM and Arizona in general. If that seems like too much effort, you may find the flow of information less than what you may very well deserve.

From my perspective, you will find this a warm and fuzzy place to spend some leisure time.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[djui5]

Standing at the mine's entrance Weaver's Needle is at 4 O'Clock

That's interesting. I haven't seen that version of that clue before.

[ArmchairHuntress]

[quote="Joe Ribaudo"]
Like Peter, I have some reservations about you, but I won't let that change the tone of my posts...

I urged the last "suspect" to find someone he trusts and get in touch with that person. Just to clear the air, some personal information exchanged, and they could vouch for you. The only reason for doing that, would be to open dialog without any reservations.

This is the point where our old friend would go off the deep end and leave in a huff. This Forum is worth participating in for anyone interested in the history of the LDM and Arizona in general. If that seems like too much effort, you may find the flow of information less than what you may very well deserve.


Huff? I knew a Huff once...

I see. I'm still suspect.

Well, I'm so new here that I don't really know if there is anyone I would "trust." I mean, what kind of "trust" are we talkin' here? I trust you with my life? I trust you to remember the dry cleaning?

I don't mean to be a smart ass, I am having fun with the banter, if you will.

However, an exchange of hostages seems acceptable. You want some personal information? I can reveal one of my most embarassing moments, in fair exchange for someone else's (your choice) most embarassing moment: the telling of which neither party shall divulge until death or the trump sound.

I can be reached at: [email protected]

[ArmchairHuntress]

Standing at the mine's entrance Weaver's Needle is at 4 O'Clock

That's interesting. I haven't seen that version of that clue before.

Hmmm, interesting. I've read the clues about Weaver's Needle, and I thought they all said the same thing, perhaps I should pay more attention to what they are actually saying!

This came from John Ramses site:

http://www.ghostradiox.com/qfg/ksmith/w ... dmark.html

and scroll down a bit to "Waltz's Clues."

[djui5]

Who knows.

That link is very interesting. I haven't seen that stuff before. I like the stone maps page

The 4 O'Clock "clue" I'm familiar with is that "the mine is at the tip of the weavers needle shadow at 4PM"

[ArmchairHuntress]

[quote="djui5"]Who knows.

That link is very interesting. I haven't seen that stuff before. I like the stone maps page

One of the first things that I read was that the stone maps were fake, and ever since then, I can't seem to get that out of my mind, even though I'm trying to keep it open to other possibilities.

What's really freaking me out lately is that the state of Washington seems to keep popping up in little sidebars all over the stuff I'm reading. Let's see, the Mitchell book I have originally belonged to some guy from Snowquamish (or something like that), Washington, then I read something about someone connected with the LDM and they were either from Centralia, Washington, or went back to Centralia after their gold fever abated, or something like that. Then, I think a couple of folks found dead in the Superstitions were from Washington, or something like that. I can't remember it all (guess I should open a Word document and start grouping all the stuff that hits me funny in one place so I can be more precise). Anyway, I went off on the Washington tangent because I was thinking Pacific Northwest because wasn't the guy who found the stone tablets from Hood River, Oregon?

Yeah, Ramsey's site is interesting, but some of his other stuff is a bit odd. Anyway, I think he might have figured out the Peralta-Ruth map.

[zentull]

Go to the Maricopa county assessors website. You can get good airphotos of the area in question from the past few years. You could just drive up to the recreation area and hike, but Ramses was right about the snakes. Of course you can believe in Ramses, but then you have to discount the Fish map as a fake from the Peraltas, the locater map from Erwin Ruth and the fact that whoever drew the profile map forget to pencil in the river( of course that is why Ramses discounts the lower section of the profile map I suppose), which would be a wee bit helpful. Lets also factor in that the 2 soldiers and Deering were taking the scenic route or had found different mines that met Waltzs description pretty well to a tee. Let us not forget the Peraltas set up camp and hung out well over 25 miles away so no one would know where the mine was and decided to run up the Salt, down into the Superstitions and out massacre canyon trying to confuse the Apaches. This would be well over 30 miles. Of course I could be wrong and the Peraltas were running into the Superstitions to escape which would be another good idea. Also let us throw out the information passed down by the Petrasches, Holmes and other eyewitness accounts. Toss out everyone elses research cause a guy from Australia found the LDM, but can't prove it because he is not allowed to. He pretty much tosses everything that does not fit aside or labels them as fakes or lies, while accepting some rather flimsy stuff as fact. While not as successful as "Chariots of the Gods" it is a similar job as he continues to make his dime off anyone who buys the book. Pro wrestlers actually do get hurt and there are very real consequences to what they do as performers, but you will not find the results in the sports section.

"Daniken's view of ancient legends as explainable if interpreted through the lens of science fiction was celebrated with a series of best-selling books, only to be undermined as fraud later when it was shown that he had actually faked important evidence."

Of course if you think I am wrong then for hundred dollars I have a map that shows where Senners cache really was at Squaw Peak .....or is it Piestawa peak again/still ?

[djui5]

It seems to me that he did find something, though I'm inclined to believe he did not find the "lost dutchman mine". He found a mine, and what looks like a sunken "pit", and ancient carvings. It's pretty hard to deny that.

I truely believe all the maps in relation to this legend DO NOT point to the same place. I also believe all of the maps in public consumption were either modified or fakes.


So many holes, so many maps, so little time

[ArmchairHuntress]

Of course if you think I am wrong then for hundred dollars I have a map that shows where Senners cache really was at Squaw Peak .....or is it Piestawa peak again/still ?

I can't think whether you are right or wrong. Although I've known about the LDM ever since I was around 12 years old, I'm only just learning about it now. I have no idea about which way folks would have went at a dead clip being pursued by angry native americans, I don't know the lay of the land.

So perhaps I can't really say "oh yes, I think Ramses figured out the Peralta-Ruth map," but I did and all it is, is my current opinion, which may or may not change the further I read and the more I learn.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Randy,

I believe you are "spot on".....almost.

Anyone who has spent any time in the Arizona desert has found lots of old mines and markings. Most of the markings are Native American, and a good deal of the "others" are likely modern-day.

You can expect to find "holes" everywhere. This is especially true in the Superstitions. Claims, monuments sealed mines are all over the place.
Natural markings can be found wherever you are looking for "clues". They may be the exact thing you are looking for. Move over into the next canyon or onto the next mountain and I can guarantee you will find the same kind of markings or landmarks.

"I truely believe all the maps in relation to this legend DO NOT point to the same place. I also believe all of the maps in public consumption were either modified or fakes."

What is amazing, is how many of the maps do point to the same area and in many cases, to the same place in that area. Perhaps that is a good reason to believe that they are "fakes". It could also be used to indicate that they are all legitimate, with the exception of some minor changes which you refer to as "modified".

I believe the truth is close to being unearthed, no pun intended, and look forward to living long enough to see that day.

Take care,

Joe