Geronimos grave and remains
Geronimos grave and remains
Dr Glovers post reminded of something I read earlier this summer concerning Geronimos relatives looking for permission to move his remains to New Mexico and that they were asking President Bush to get involved because supposedly the skull and bones group have the actual remains. Has there been any further developments and is this just an urbam legend or does it have some fact behind the claims?
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Joe Ribaudo
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Geronimo's bones
Zen,
As you know, this story has been around for a long time. If the Apache pressed the Government, it seems likely they would be allowed to exhume Geronimo's grave.
If you read the "description" of the grave being robbed, you will find that there is some doubt as to its truthfulness.
Here is part of an article dealing with that doubt:
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But here's the thing: There's no good reason to believe Geronimo's remains ever left Oklahoma, and plenty of reasons to think they didn't. One obvious problem is the description of the theft in the S&B history: "The ring of pick on stone and thud of earth on earth alone disturbs the peace of the prairie. An axe pried open the iron door of the tomb, and Pat [short for 'patriarch,' the honorific used among S&B alums] Bush entered and started to dig. . . . At the exact bottom of the small round hole, Pat James dug deep and pried out the trophy itself. . . . We quickly closed the grave, shut the door and sped home."
What a hoot, eh? Trouble is, the description bears no relationship to the actual burial place, which wasn't a mausoleum with a door, as the account suggests, but rather a conventional grave in the ground. An S&B representative has described the "crook" account as a hoax, and no less than celebrity biographer Kitty Kelley, in The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty (2004), writes that the whole thing was a tall tale cooked up by Prescott Bush and friends that made its way into S&B lore. OK, so Kelley isn't a sterling source, but most accounts agree that stories of Geronimo's bones having been moved were circulating before 1918--put in play, perhaps, by the local Apache in hopes of discouraging thieves. (Today the grave is covered by a concrete slab and marked with a pyramid of stones, but these were added after 1918.) A Fort Sill spokesman tells me, "There is no evidence to indicate the bones are anywhere but in the grave site."
One never knows, of course. Conceivably if the various Apache factions got together and demanded that the grave be exhumed, the feds would cave and we could settle the matter once and for all. As it stands, I'm betting what's left of Geronimo is still at Fort Sill.
--CECIL ADAMS
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That's one man's opinion on the matter, but it has no bearing on what is or is not the truth.
Joe Ribaudo
As you know, this story has been around for a long time. If the Apache pressed the Government, it seems likely they would be allowed to exhume Geronimo's grave.
If you read the "description" of the grave being robbed, you will find that there is some doubt as to its truthfulness.
Here is part of an article dealing with that doubt:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But here's the thing: There's no good reason to believe Geronimo's remains ever left Oklahoma, and plenty of reasons to think they didn't. One obvious problem is the description of the theft in the S&B history: "The ring of pick on stone and thud of earth on earth alone disturbs the peace of the prairie. An axe pried open the iron door of the tomb, and Pat [short for 'patriarch,' the honorific used among S&B alums] Bush entered and started to dig. . . . At the exact bottom of the small round hole, Pat James dug deep and pried out the trophy itself. . . . We quickly closed the grave, shut the door and sped home."
What a hoot, eh? Trouble is, the description bears no relationship to the actual burial place, which wasn't a mausoleum with a door, as the account suggests, but rather a conventional grave in the ground. An S&B representative has described the "crook" account as a hoax, and no less than celebrity biographer Kitty Kelley, in The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty (2004), writes that the whole thing was a tall tale cooked up by Prescott Bush and friends that made its way into S&B lore. OK, so Kelley isn't a sterling source, but most accounts agree that stories of Geronimo's bones having been moved were circulating before 1918--put in play, perhaps, by the local Apache in hopes of discouraging thieves. (Today the grave is covered by a concrete slab and marked with a pyramid of stones, but these were added after 1918.) A Fort Sill spokesman tells me, "There is no evidence to indicate the bones are anywhere but in the grave site."
One never knows, of course. Conceivably if the various Apache factions got together and demanded that the grave be exhumed, the feds would cave and we could settle the matter once and for all. As it stands, I'm betting what's left of Geronimo is still at Fort Sill.
--CECIL ADAMS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's one man's opinion on the matter, but it has no bearing on what is or is not the truth.
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Bones
Zen,
Sorry.....Guess I only picked up on this part:
"...and is this just an urbam legend or does it have some fact behind the claims?"
I have no idea as to what is happening now. The story has been around a good many years. You would think, if something was going to happen, it would already have taken place.
Joe Ribaudo
Sorry.....Guess I only picked up on this part:
"...and is this just an urbam legend or does it have some fact behind the claims?"
I have no idea as to what is happening now. The story has been around a good many years. You would think, if something was going to happen, it would already have taken place.
Joe Ribaudo