Walter Gassler mystery.

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Post Reply
Roger
Part Timer
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Mr. X and the Gassler Notes

Post by Roger »

Let's go back to a very fundamental question:

"How did Mr. X know that Tom Kollenborn/Bob Corbin had Gassler's notes?"

I will give two possible trains of events that could be answers to this question:

1. A person associated with the Sheriff's department found the gold in Gassler's backpack and abscounded with it. During the investigation of Gassler's death, "someone" interviewed Gassler's wife and learned from her that he had visited and had multiple conversations with Bob Corbin and Tom Kollenborn and had given them a copy of his manuscript on the LDM. This "someone" may have been the one that took the backpack gold or could have told that individual and with the knowledge of the manuscript, the person with the gold preciptated the ruse with Tom K. to get the manuscript. He may have used an unknown person to do the actual meeting with Tom to make sure no one recognized him or that person.

2. A person may have met Gassler in the Superstitions or even helped him get into the mountains after his wife let him off at First Water. It could also be that after Gassler had his heart attack, but was still alive that this person came upon him. In either case, Gassler shared what he was doing in the mountains and that he had left his manuscript with Bob Corbin/Tom Kollenborn. The person found the gold in the backpack after Gassler died and then made the attempt to get the manuscript through Tom. Don Shade seeing and KNOWING the individual he saw among the rocks when he found Gassler would make this a more likely version of what happened.

These are about the only two scenario's that I can think of about how someone would have GOLD from Gassler PLUS know about the MANUSCRIPT with Tom/Bob.

Just speculation, but possible events.

Roger
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Question

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

Does anyone who knew Don Shade, know why he did not mention the Walt Gassler episode in his book? Considering some of the things the man did share, it seems a little strange that he did not put this little adventure in the book.

You have to admit, it's a pretty good story.....Too good to be left out. :?

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Obvious Problems

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

If we are going to use Don Shade for a source here, should we also believe his story that Barry Storm invented the story of the Two Soldiers, from another story involving skeletons found in the Mazatzell Mountains?

He was, after all, very good friends with Storm and admired his story telling abilities. Did Storm laugh with Shade while setting around a campfire and explaining how countless Dutch Hunters would follow this story for countless years? 8O

It's a know fact that folks have been making up stories, maps and "artifacts" about the LDM and the Superstitions since Waltz died.
While I love to argue and discuss the "facts" surrounding the LDM, I have never spent any time looking for it.

On the other hand, I know for a fact, that gold ingots bearing the mark of the kings royal fifth were taken out of the Superstitions on more than one ocassion. :lol:

For me, the real problem with the Superstitions is not what is in there, but what has been made up as being there.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Post by djui5 »

Maybe this has been said in the past pages.

As I understand it: Don saw a backpack at the discovery of Gassler. Roland's imposter told Tom that he acquired the backpack from the sheriff's office, but later, when this was checked, the sheriff's office said that there was no backpack.

Also, isn't it true that the imposter believed that Corbin was the only one that had the notes and maps? And that the imposter only came to Tom to ask him if he would get them from Corbin?

Jesse

It's my understanding that the imposter asked Tom for the notes, implying to me that said person THOUGHT Tom had the notes, and Tom told this imposter to ask Bob for the notes, then imposter left never to be heard from again. Maybe Bob knew this person, and would reconize them, and that's why said person never asked Bob for the notes?


RE: the notes, I like the way Rogers #1 theory plays out. Seems quite likely to me, personally.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Truth

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Let me see if I have this right. Are you all saying that you are taking the word of the "imposter" that the gold ore he had, was actually from Walt Gassler's pack?

For a start, you should probably reread what is found on page 240 of
"The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz" by, Dr. Glover. 8O

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

Changed page to 240,7-21-06 Thanks Zen :)
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
buscar
Part Timer
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Mohawk Valley

Post by buscar »

According to Helen Corbin, Gassler’s son told Bob Corbin, that the backpack was listed on the paper which recorded his dad’s effects, but when he picked them up, the backpack was not there.

If true, then why, did the sheriff’s office say, “ there was no backpack.” :?:

Did Roland ask why the backpack was on the list but not there?

Having worked as an undercover police officer, I see a number of pieces to the “gold/backpack” puzzle, that are missing on purpose.

Another missing piece to the whole chaotic state, are those who watch attentively, and sit back in the shadows, while not saying a single word.

And, if we were to ask, they would say, “We are most definitely not running away from you. And we are not hiding from you either. We just don’t want to get involved even though we helped instigate this entire gold/backpack thing.”

buscar :)
eldorado
Part Timer
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:48 pm

Walt Gassler

Post by eldorado »

LDM,

My first post gave you the what. The how and why directly follow from that.

Look at the phenomena without the worn out paradigms. What is it that happened and what were the results.


Could be Walt just wanted the last laugh.




EK
Last edited by eldorado on Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:56 pm, edited 6 times in total.
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LDMFAN
Greenhorn
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 11:44 am

Post by LDMFAN »

<<You have not posted in a long, long time. It's a shame you choose this petty bickering as the only thing important enough to comment on.

I will try not to get in your way here, and look forward to your posting on something important.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo>>

Evidently, you have to have the last word on every posting on here. Sorry, I don't have that much LDM hunting experience to provide "important enough" information to comment on. I did enjoy reading the posts on here as I can relate to some of the places in the Supers that I have been able to hike to and see first hand. But I guess this site is for "experts" only. Evidently Mr. Ribaudo is the only "expert" on this site and is the only one who has anything "important" to comment on. I guess if you don't post in a long time, you don't have any right to make a "comment". Even though I haven't posted anything in long time, there are some of you here that I've had pleasant conversations with over the past several years, thanks. I'll be going now, never to return Mr. Ribaudo. I guess I'm not worthy.
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Re: Truth

Post by djui5 »

Let me see if I have this right. Are you all saying that you are taking the word of the "imposter" that the gold ore he had, was actually from Walt Gassler's pack?

That's what Tom said, correct? How wold Tom know if it was from the backpack or not? Or did said person present a backpack, that looked like, or was the backpack found at the scene, with some gold in it saying said gold was in the backpack.

Maybe Tom made an assumption. Wouldn't be the first time in history.

BTW, I hope LDMFAN dosen't run off on Joe's account. That would be a shame.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Post by djui5 »

you betcha :)

A little beginners luck never hurt anyone either :D
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Nice Effort Going On Here

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

"LDMFAN,

You have not posted in a long, long time. It's a shame you choose this petty bickering as the only thing important enough to comment on.

Having said that, I agree with what you have said, just don't see the need to create another Forum for silliness. I have felt it proper to give some kind of response where it is needed.

I feel it is needed because the constant, unwarranted, personal attacks
are insulting in nature. Left unanswered they become a sign of weakness that will foster attacks by the other like minded or mindless members.

I try to expose how foolish Peter's comments are. Quoting his foolishness and exposing his lies, are done in an effort to turn him to another endeavour.

It don't work!

I have called for a "cease fire" so many times, I am beginning to sound like the U.N. Peter agrees, on occasion, but eventually makes his insulting comments, always of a personal nature.

I understand I have the option of just ignoring him, but that gets harder and harder to do, as he feeds on the silence also.

I will, once again, try to ignore him but feel it is of little consequence to the members to ignore our mindless banter. It takes less than a second to scroll down to the next reply. If you see my name as the poster, or Peters, just ignore the post.

I will try not to get in your way here, and look forward to your posting on something important.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like I said, if I ingore them, they just keep up the insults. If LDMFAN, whoever he is, was offended by the above post......Good Riddence. The only other person I know of, who runs away when someone says something he doesn't like, finally bit the folks (like Peter) who were sucking-up to him. You all knew who he was, just couldn't help yourselves.

I will say my piece on any conversation taking place on this open forum.
In most cases, it will be an opinion. I don't know more than most of the other "old timers". Never claimed I did, unlike Peter.

Peter,

If you want a private conversation, take it to a private media. This is not your private playground.

This will be my last post addressing the stupidity of those who are trying to destroy the Forum. The intense effort that was made to do the same to the Rendezvous, both last year and this year, should be obvious to anyone.

While difficult not to respond, I will make every effort to let your vile crap continue.....unabated.

Joe Ribaudo
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

In or Out?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Seems likely that Gassler died on his way into the mountains, not coming out. Looks like someone is trying to make a story where, other than the man's tragic death, there was none.

Joe Ribaudo
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Right or Wrong?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

Don't believe I have ever claimed to know more than Matthew, actually quite the opposite is the truth. I believe I have said that Matthew may be the most intelligent and knowledgeable person on this site.

I appreciate your compliment, but must repeat that there are many folks here, that know more than I do.

Having said that, and wanting to get back to the mystery surrounding the death of Walter Gassler, I would like to clear up my definition of "lividity"
as it relates to a "POST MORTEM" examination.

I believe "lividity" was the proper terminology to use, where I did, because:

"Lividity is a darkk purple discolouration of the skin resulting from the gravitational pooling of blood in the veins and capillary beds of the dependent parts of the body following cessation of the circulation."
(emphasis in bold by Joe)

There is a good deal more to be said on the subject, but this makes a point.

Matthew was not wrong in his own definition of "lividity" but we were discussing what happened to Walt after his death, not something that might occur before death.

My personal opinion, not worth much I admit, is that the "evidence" that is known is worth more than the rumors and stories that followed his death in determining the circumstances that surrounded his last few days on earth.

Perhaps Matthew can divulge a bit more of his personal knowledge of this matter. On the other hand, he may feel he has already said too much.
In either case, I respect his judgement here.

Thanks for your reply,

Joe Ribaudo
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Re: In or Out?

Post by djui5 »

Seems likely that Gassler died on his way into the mountains, not coming out. Looks like someone is trying to make a story where, other than the man's tragic death, there was none.

Joe Ribaudo

In order to know Walt was on his way into the mountains, you'd have to know where he was headed, and exactly where he was during the time before his death, neither of which I think anyone knows for a verifiable fact. If they do, they know why and where he died also.....or were with him up until the last few min's of his life...

If he was found heeled over at First Water, it would be different, but he wasen't. Just my thought.

re livitity: I'd still like to see the ME's report....
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Not So Warm and Fuzzy

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Matthew,

You are misreading what I am saying. You have the inside story here, not me. I have no idea what took place and I don't have any "warm and fuzzy feeling".

What I do have, is a natural curiosity about what took place. It is a bit of Superstition history that arouses questions in a number of people, not just Joe.

One of the questions that comes to mind is: Did the official reports mention that Walt's camp had been set up and lived in?

Joe Ribaudo
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

>>You have the inside story here, not me. I have no idea what took place and I don't have any "warm and fuzzy feeling". <<

Well, that being the case .....that you have NO IDEA what took place........
then why do you INSIST that the whole mystery surrounding Gassler is someone "just making a story?"
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Insist?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

Thank you for trying to tell me what I have said.

I don't believe I have insisted that it is just a story. I have, on the other hand, suggested that it "seemed" like another good story. I see a slight difference, but I could be wrong.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you KNOW that Gassler died going into the mountains? We have an intelligent, first-hand account that found EVIDENCE (your very favorite word)
on the ground that Gassler was in his camp on Peters Mesa shortly before his death.............but you INSIST on calling this "trying to make a story."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not my favorite word, but I do have a fondness for it.

What is the "evidence" that "Gassler was in his camp on Peters Mesa shortly before his death". (emphasis in bold by Joe)

Joe Ribaudo
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

Oops.

You are correct. Gassler wasnt in Gasslers hidden camp.

Bingo the Chimp was.


What is the LIKELIHOOD of Gassler being in Gasslers hidden camp?

Probably alot more likely than Bingo.

But what do I know?
Post Reply