bill 
Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest
Helen,s List
Joe; I seem to remember that the ship did not land at N/O but at another port instead. That someone played with the ship records... bill
bill Helen,s List
SC; WE have to use the names so we know WHICH waltz intery we are talking about. WE are not knocking the names just the info and if it could be true and where the auther obtained it. Bill
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Joe Ribaudo
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Voluptuous?
Novice,
Just to return to an earlier comment: "A sidelight; Martin Stephan who led the immigration was kicked out of the church four months after their arrival and was rowed across the Mississippi and dumped in Illinois. (Something about inappropriate behavior (they called it adultery) with some women in the party)"
Martin Stephan was "accused of voluptuous living and dictatorial conduct."
While that could include "inapropriate behavior (they called it adultery", unless you know that for a fact, it could just as easily been a rich man living life (very) well. Too much eating, drinking and finery.
Respectfully,
Joe
Just to return to an earlier comment: "A sidelight; Martin Stephan who led the immigration was kicked out of the church four months after their arrival and was rowed across the Mississippi and dumped in Illinois. (Something about inappropriate behavior (they called it adultery) with some women in the party)"
Martin Stephan was "accused of voluptuous living and dictatorial conduct."
While that could include "inapropriate behavior (they called it adultery", unless you know that for a fact, it could just as easily been a rich man living life (very) well. Too much eating, drinking and finery.
Respectfully,
Joe
Helen,s List
TO ALL; I have to beleive that Jacob came to AMERICA as a 30 year old man. A much older WALTZ would not have been able to have moved/gotten around as much as our Jacob Waltz did. If he was over 40 years old he would have been too settled and wore out to have moved around and lived as he " our jakcob" did. AN older Waltz would not have been up to the wear and tear of that sort of life... Bill
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Joe Ribaudo
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What?
Bill,
You have got to be kidding!
Respectfully,
Joe
You have got to be kidding!
Respectfully,
Joe
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Joe Ribaudo
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Try To Keep Up
Dave,
It's obvious that Bill (a man's got to know his limits) has never tried to keep up with the likes of Obie Stoker, (in his 80s) while taking a little stroll thru the Supes.
Respectfully,
Joe
It's obvious that Bill (a man's got to know his limits) has never tried to keep up with the likes of Obie Stoker, (in his 80s) while taking a little stroll thru the Supes.
Respectfully,
Joe
Helen,s List
JOE JO JOW; Az AZ AZZ; I knew someone would start something! If the Jake was an old fart when he came here; He would have been like the other germans, He would have fell in there with them an started making apple studdel ,lager dark beer, and stuffing sausages, O yes the dairy cows too. He wouldn,t have had the imagination to use the outdoor shitter. FACT IS that is why he missed his friend so much Weizzer was the brains of the two. Weizzer was the one to call the breaks for the dinner , beer in town, or whoring among the indian,s. Weizzer decided on what they would spend their money and so on!!! DID I tell you Jake was a leaner?? bill
bill 
I found this while searching for something else but thought it may be of interest. Helen Corbin was interviewed by Barbara Simpson on the radio show Coast to Coast AM on 10/19/02. http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guests/74.html
I'm not a member (you have to be to listen to the shows from the archive's there) so I haven't listened to it and I have no ideal what was said. Just thought it might be of interest to some of you as the interviews on this show have a tendency to go off the beaten path and may provide a tidbit of new new information.
Greg
I'm not a member (you have to be to listen to the shows from the archive's there) so I haven't listened to it and I have no ideal what was said. Just thought it might be of interest to some of you as the interviews on this show have a tendency to go off the beaten path and may provide a tidbit of new new information.
Greg
But hey.....Thats just Me....I could be wrong
I had previously posted a comment in which I credited the Helen Corbin book with providing the actual image of the passenger list for the Ship Cimbria on which the Petrasch family came to the U. S. Helen devoted three pages to images and then added text explaining the manifest.
Corbin wrote (Pages 122-126), "The Petrasch family, husband and wife, sailed to the United States from Hanover, an industrial city in Germany, on the ship Cimbria. After their exit from Hamburg, they landed in New York on April 10, 1871. The docket listed them as Gottfried and Helene. Ultimately, the family arrived in Colorado, where the father and sons went to work as hard-rock miners. The boys mother left to go back East, leaving the men to raise their new son Rheinhart."
That was great as far as it went but recently when I revisited the passenger list in some detail, I found the information confusing and probably irrelevant.
Examining the image of the manifest we find that manifest records the age of Gottfreid as 65 and Helene as 63. We find none of the rest of their family. But from information elsewhere we find that Helene would have been over 60 when she gave birth to Rhiney, and since Gottfried ("Pete Petrasch") didn't die until 1918, he would have been 107 years old. Gottfried and Helene were perhaps the grandparents but this would certainly require additional research.
The Petrasch story is well documented in Dr. Glover's Book (Pages 176-181) and almost the only thing common with Corbin is the names of Gottfried and Helene.
Corbin's apparent error here is certainly not the same as the one regarding the Olber's manifest. The point I am trying to make is that many of the errors in Corbin (and they are numerous!) can be written off as extreme sloppiness while there are others that appear to be fabricated with the intent to change history.
I'm adding my name and I changed my LDM profile page so Joe won't have to continue to try and draw inferences as to who I am.
Garry Cundiff (Novice)
Corbin wrote (Pages 122-126), "The Petrasch family, husband and wife, sailed to the United States from Hanover, an industrial city in Germany, on the ship Cimbria. After their exit from Hamburg, they landed in New York on April 10, 1871. The docket listed them as Gottfried and Helene. Ultimately, the family arrived in Colorado, where the father and sons went to work as hard-rock miners. The boys mother left to go back East, leaving the men to raise their new son Rheinhart."
That was great as far as it went but recently when I revisited the passenger list in some detail, I found the information confusing and probably irrelevant.
Examining the image of the manifest we find that manifest records the age of Gottfreid as 65 and Helene as 63. We find none of the rest of their family. But from information elsewhere we find that Helene would have been over 60 when she gave birth to Rhiney, and since Gottfried ("Pete Petrasch") didn't die until 1918, he would have been 107 years old. Gottfried and Helene were perhaps the grandparents but this would certainly require additional research.
The Petrasch story is well documented in Dr. Glover's Book (Pages 176-181) and almost the only thing common with Corbin is the names of Gottfried and Helene.
Corbin's apparent error here is certainly not the same as the one regarding the Olber's manifest. The point I am trying to make is that many of the errors in Corbin (and they are numerous!) can be written off as extreme sloppiness while there are others that appear to be fabricated with the intent to change history.
I'm adding my name and I changed my LDM profile page so Joe won't have to continue to try and draw inferences as to who I am.
Garry Cundiff (Novice)
re: "
The Petrasch story is well documented in Dr. Glover's Book (Pages 176-181) and almost the only thing common with Corbin is the names of Gottfried and Helene. "
Nice piece of work Garry!
It's obvious that Dr. Glover did his OWN homework and that they don't hand those Phd's out to just anyone!
redison
The Petrasch story is well documented in Dr. Glover's Book (Pages 176-181) and almost the only thing common with Corbin is the names of Gottfried and Helene. "
Nice piece of work Garry!
It's obvious that Dr. Glover did his OWN homework and that they don't hand those Phd's out to just anyone!
redison
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Joe Ribaudo
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Who's Who
Garry,
"I'm adding my name and I changed my LDM profile page so Joe won't have to continue to try and draw inferences as to who I am. "
____________________________________________________________
"Just trying to find out who's who in the zoo. Mr. Kollenborn's name was brought into the conversation by someone else. There are a number of new members who join the conversation with a great deal of familiarity.
They seem to know the LDM players quite well.
My statement was designed to elicit the responses that Redison and Novice made. Just gives me a better idea where the "newbies" are coming from."
I assume you are referring to the above comment to S.C.
Since I have known who you are since Monday, March 28 at 7:24 P.M., you might want to consider the possibility that I was trying to elicit something other than your identity.
While I don't doubt that you are who you claim to be, your status as a "newbie" is suspect. Considering the brilliant research you have done, and the short time you say you have been involved in the LDM hunt, as I have mentioned before, you have misnamed yourself. I would suggest "Prodigy".
I don't believe I have questioned who you might be, since you first came on the site. I really think using your own name cuts down on the contentious posts. None of the people who have insulted me, have ever used their last name's and most, unlike Peter, don't even use their first names.
All of those folks have been "famous" or "notorious", so I can see why they are hiding from a multitude of the adoring puplic.
I am very, very glad you arrived on this site. We need the mental stimulation.
Respectfully,
Joe
"I'm adding my name and I changed my LDM profile page so Joe won't have to continue to try and draw inferences as to who I am.
" ____________________________________________________________
"Just trying to find out who's who in the zoo. Mr. Kollenborn's name was brought into the conversation by someone else. There are a number of new members who join the conversation with a great deal of familiarity.
They seem to know the LDM players quite well.
My statement was designed to elicit the responses that Redison and Novice made. Just gives me a better idea where the "newbies" are coming from."
I assume you are referring to the above comment to S.C.
Since I have known who you are since Monday, March 28 at 7:24 P.M., you might want to consider the possibility that I was trying to elicit something other than your identity.
While I don't doubt that you are who you claim to be, your status as a "newbie" is suspect. Considering the brilliant research you have done, and the short time you say you have been involved in the LDM hunt, as I have mentioned before, you have misnamed yourself. I would suggest "Prodigy".
I don't believe I have questioned who you might be, since you first came on the site. I really think using your own name cuts down on the contentious posts. None of the people who have insulted me, have ever used their last name's and most, unlike Peter, don't even use their first names.
All of those folks have been "famous" or "notorious", so I can see why they are hiding from a multitude of the adoring puplic.
I am very, very glad you arrived on this site. We need the mental stimulation.
Respectfully,
Joe
I chided Corbin for her sloppiness and then I turned around and calculated Gotfried Petrasch's age as 107 in 1918. If he was 65 in 1871 he would have been about 112 when he died. I used to be able to do these things in my head but it is apparent that I should be using a pencil and paper for calculations.
Joe,
I don't know where you get your adjectives but after you have put up with me for a while I suspect that you will have a completely different set.
Garry
Joe,
I don't know where you get your adjectives but after you have put up with me for a while I suspect that you will have a completely different set.
Garry
Re: Who's Who
Nobody gets to be be "famous" or "notorious" by hiding Joe.Joe Ribaudo wrote:All of those folks have been "famous" or "notorious", so I can see why they are hiding from a multitude of the adoring puplic.
Joe
The fact that the folks to which you seem to be refering, do not lower themselves to your level of childs play exemplifies why they are "famous" and you are "notorious". While they spend their time in the field doing their own homework, and you spend your time just trying to figure out who they are so you can attempt to get close enough to them to copy their homework and put it to your own use.
You've made your mark on the wall in the dutchman community Joe. Everyone knows who you are, there's no doubt about that!
redison
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Joe Ribaudo
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Good Point?
Redison,
No doubt you are correct.
Respectfully,
Joe
No doubt you are correct.
Respectfully,
Joe
Re: Good Point?
You bet I'm correct, It’s too bad your mark on the wall is little more than the adult version of the neighborhood kid with a can of spray paint splashing his graffiti all over with his name on it and thinking he is making himself famous.Joe Ribaudo wrote:Redison,
No doubt you are correct.
Respectfully,
Joe
No respect intended,
redison
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Joe Ribaudo
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Marks On The Wall
Redison,
Why don't you tell us just how much you have contributed to this site?
What's your "mark"? Tell us which one of your posts was a personal best.
So far, the only accolades I have heard came from Peter.
Not to worry, as I am still trying to "get over" myself. Hard job, but I am trying.
Respectfully,
Joe
Why don't you tell us just how much you have contributed to this site?
What's your "mark"? Tell us which one of your posts was a personal best.
So far, the only accolades I have heard came from Peter.
Not to worry, as I am still trying to "get over" myself. Hard job, but I am trying.
Respectfully,
Joe
Helen,s List
TO ALL; I first bought Ms Corbin,s book and I remember her giving a disclaimer in it. She admits that she is using other people,s material that she/bob had collected over the years. So she picked out what made the most sense as her story about the Jake progressed to it,s conclusion. She admited that she had a ton of material to choose from. I think I remember that she admits that she had not researched the material herself and that the material was the commonally acepted fact,s up to the time of her book. She readly admited that she was using other peoples material too. She never made a CLAIM to researching the material herself. AFTER she published her book THEN several more people RAN to publish their book and then begain spitting and hissing at her and her sloppy unresearched book/work. SHE never claimed that it was proven fact. She did claim that this it,s what we have out of a ton of material and this is what makes the best sense of it all! SHE published her book 1st and she gets the gravy right or wrong. Somebody else might have had a scientifitly proven FACT book BUT they sat on it TOOOO LOOONG. I,m sorry boys BUT that,s life deal with it. MS CORBIN,S book was the 1st to give any real fact,s on the lost dutchman gold mine other than a couple of lines in some magazine somewhere sometime. SO quite knocking the woman,s work... bill
bill Helen,s List
Joe are you going to slice and dice redison or make summer sausage out of his ... NO I didn,t say that...bill
NO I didn,t say that...bill Re: Marks On The Wall
I'm not on the wall at all Joe, never claimed to be, the difference is I am not trying to fool myself or anyone else into believing that I am.Joe Ribaudo wrote:Redison,
Why don't you tell us just how much you have contributed to this site?
What's your "mark"? Tell us which one of your posts was a personal best.
So far, the only accolades I have heard came from Peter.
Not to worry, as I am still trying to "get over" myself. Hard job, but I am trying.
Respectfully,
Joe
redison
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Joe Ribaudo
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Right On
Bill,
Your post concerning Helen Corbin was right on, as far as I'm concerned.
We still need to research the evidence she placed in her book. If it seems to be bogus, that needs to be said. If her evidence turns out to be factual, that also needs to be said.
As for L.W., I am at a loss for words. He has hung in here much longer than usual.
Respectfully,
Joe
Your post concerning Helen Corbin was right on, as far as I'm concerned.
We still need to research the evidence she placed in her book. If it seems to be bogus, that needs to be said. If her evidence turns out to be factual, that also needs to be said.
As for L.W., I am at a loss for words. He has hung in here much longer than usual.
Respectfully,
Joe
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dutch elm disease
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Joe Ribaudo
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Off To Grandmaw's Circus
DED,
Grandmaw, what big ears you have.
Grandmaw, what big teeth you have.
Damn! Those are really, really big shoes.
This clown/wolf has a lot of hats.
Respectfully,
Joe
Grandmaw, what big ears you have.
Grandmaw, what big teeth you have.
Damn! Those are really, really big shoes.
This clown/wolf has a lot of hats.
Respectfully,
Joe
Welcome to another Joe Ribaudo Graffiti Wall.
Welcome to another Joe Ribaudo Graffiti Wall.
Kick your shoes off and get comfortable, bring a pen and paper in case you want to take notes.
Joe went to all the trouble to share this information with us and the least we can do is treat it with the sincerity and respect it deserves. The more you read it, the more you will begin to realize that it really is some of Joe’s best work.
Don’t let the names of Bill & DED confuse you. It’s just that these thoughts are so deep, personal, inspirational, informing and scholarly that Joe is too modest to put his real name on them.
“Making the “Contribution” WAY TO GO JOE !!!!! Keep up the good work!
YOU ARE A LEGEND IN YOUR OWN MIND!
Kick your shoes off and get comfortable, bring a pen and paper in case you want to take notes.
Joe went to all the trouble to share this information with us and the least we can do is treat it with the sincerity and respect it deserves. The more you read it, the more you will begin to realize that it really is some of Joe’s best work.
Don’t let the names of Bill & DED confuse you. It’s just that these thoughts are so deep, personal, inspirational, informing and scholarly that Joe is too modest to put his real name on them.
“Making the “Contribution” WAY TO GO JOE !!!!! Keep up the good work!
YOU ARE A LEGEND IN YOUR OWN MIND!
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dutch elm disease
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it seems joe has upset someone...its almost becoming ....personal it seems do i suspect that someone is trying convince the forum that joe,ded,bill are one and the same? im sure this was suggested before....just cant recall who it was hmmm.....maybe i should edit the word clowns to clown?bills awful silent on this issue hope he hasnt been intimidated by it.
joe,
my wquestion is should anything corbin writes be taken with anything but the merest grain of salt? i still recall with amusement 2(tho there are many more) of her utterances, one where she stated blithely "that indians never lied" and of course the"only authenticated picture of waltz" baloney.i would say her books are mainly aimed at the juvenile audience, not that theres anything wrong with being a juvenile of course.but of course its only my opinion.....
do i suspect that someone is trying convince the forum that joe,ded,bill are one and the same? im sure this was suggested before....just cant recall who it was hmmm.....maybe i should edit the word clowns to clown?bills awful silent on this issue hope he hasnt been intimidated by it.joe,
my wquestion is should anything corbin writes be taken with anything but the merest grain of salt? i still recall with amusement 2(tho there are many more) of her utterances, one where she stated blithely "that indians never lied" and of course the"only authenticated picture of waltz" baloney.i would say her books are mainly aimed at the juvenile audience, not that theres anything wrong with being a juvenile of course.but of course its only my opinion.....