Rendezvous and Ely's Book

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ThomasG
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Rendezvous and Ely's Book

Post by ThomasG »

We all know the Dutchman has a great deal of misinformation associated with it. At the 2019 Rendezvous I gave a talk about Sims Ely’s book.

Allow me a bit of review from that talk. After multiple rejections by New York publishers Ely’s submitted his manuscript to William Morrow and Co. who passed the manuscript to John Willey for his assessment. Willey, too, thought the manuscript was not publishable. However, he saw something other book publishers had missed — the subject of the story would make a good book. Willey took control, writing/rewriting the book. In the end he produced a very successful book.

Sunday morning as I was leaving the 2019 Rendezvous I stopped at Greg Davis’ camp to visit with Greg. Matthew Roberts was also there. Matthew informed me that I had it wrong! Ely’s book was not written by Willey, but by another person.

Matthew said he had tracked down the records/information of William Morrow & Co. after their demise. He also had came to the conclusion that Ely did not write the book. However, he stated that it was not Willey who created Sim’s book, but someone else.

Matthew informed me that Willey was the treasurer at William Morrow and Co. Why would a manuscript be given to the treasurer, and not an editor or writer? Why would Willey have had anything to do with a manuscript? We disagreed and left it at that. The below addresses the “book/treasurer issue”.

Willey’s New York Times obituary (May 3, 1990) addresses the above: “After his discharge as a captain in 1946, Mr. Willey joined William Morrow as assistant to the president. He served as treasurer from 1952 to 1957 before becoming editor in chief. In 1979 he became a consulting editor, and he retired from the company in April 1980.” (For those who may want to check this out, all I did was go to Google and type in: "John Wiley William Morrow" -- It came up as the first
information entry.)

Note, Willey did not become treasure in 1952, but he joined William Morrow circa 1946.

When what was a rather hot potato landed thart William Morrow & Co circa 1948 – 1950 the manuscript was given to Willey for his assessment. He was then assistant to the president of William Morrow and Co. The writing/creation of Ely’s book started years before Willey was appointed treasurer.

The below items are from the Ely collection. They illustrate that it was William Morrow and Co. who published the book, that it was John Willey who produced the book as it is today, and that he was working on the book years before he became treasurer.

Much/Some of Ely’s original manuscript survives, and it is obvious why so many publishers turned it down. Ely had spent almost his entire career with and writing government reports. His original manuscript is written much like a government report … detailed, thorough and, pedantic.

One of the most poignant letters to Willey from the Elys is the dedication to Jim Bark. As the book progressed Ely wanted to pay direct homage to Bark. He wrote the dedication to Bark and sent it to Willey at all most the 11th hour. The family was hoping there was still time to include the dedication – Willey assured them it would be included!

Attached are three missives between the Elys and Willey.
Willey.1950.pdf
(384.76 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
Willey.1950.pdf
(384.76 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
Ely.1953..pdf
(50 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
Attachments
Willey.3.1953.pdf
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don
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Re: Rendezvous and Ely's Book

Post by don »

hi thomas,
do you know how many copies of Elys book were sold? because basically we could get an example of what constituted a "successful book" in those days of long ago..if its simply a matter of numbers sold,then id hazard a guess that barnards book would have been successful too,judging by the number of times it was reprinted...be that as it may ,my opinion of barnards book/pamphlet is that it was full of half truths-quarter truths and downright lies,same as Elys book was..so ,again in my opinion it matters little who wrote it,who amended it, who edited it,or how successfull it was ..all that is important is whether or not it was a factual account or "truth in fictional form" ,or untruths stated as factid say it fell between all 3 footstools for whatever reason. kind regards
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ThomasG
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Re: Rendezvous and Ely's Book

Post by ThomasG »

Don,

Pardon the late reply. A verity of techie issues, and life have delayed me getting back to you. You wrote:

“… be that as it may, my opinion of barnards book/pamphlet is that it was full of half truths-quarter truths and downright lies, same as Elys book was.. so ,again in my opinion it matters little who wrote it, who amended it, who edited it,, or how successful it was ..all that is important is whether or not it was a factual account or "truth in fictional form", or untruths stated as facts say it fell between all 3 footstools for whatever reason. kind regards.“

I am pretty much of the same mind. That is, just what’s what with any particular book or article (or Internet posting) – is it an honest attempt to get at the facts, or is it a fiction book or posting based on facts, or is it simply made from whole-cloth … perhaps a good read, or a posting to impress others, but nothing more.

IMHO Ely’s book owes a great deal to not only to Whiley, but also the movie Lust for Gold. The movie was a major film produced by Columbia Pictures starring Glen Ford Ida Lupino -- both of whom were major actors on their way up at the time. Ford’s carrier had started to take of in the mid-1940s.

William Morrow and Co. would have received Sim’s manuscript at roughly the time Columbia had started on the movie version of Storm’s book Thundergods Gold. The movie was released in early 1949, about the same time as Whilley would have started in Ely’s manuscript.

Ely’s book was likely one, if not the only one, to make it in the major markets. I do know that it had multiple printings in the States, and there was at least one printing in Britain.

Interestingly, Storms book set a standard that is rarely matched this day, his Notes of Authenticity.

T
don
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Re: Rendezvous and Ely's Book

Post by don »

Thomas,
I had Ely's book (the u.k printing) published by eyre & spottiswoode..funnily enough i sold it to someone on this very forum through ebay..i remember the buyer thanking 2 other prospective buyers on here for standing down on the bidding so he could get it cheaper,which i thought then was a tad childish. he plainly knew he was buying it from me and wanted me to know ..but i got the better deal because i got the money back it cost me ,and he got a book sized dollop of basically nonsense lol. interesting possible connection to the "lust for gold" movie,goes to show that "all that glistens isnt gold".Im a born cynic of course anyway, but regret deeply the amount of time and effort ,not to mention the money spent on researching,buying books etc on a subject which thro the years did very little but highlight my gullibility. i think i wrote this before ,but i dont really know why parts of the legend still fascinate me...maybe im hoping that circs will appear which will show me that i wasnt quite as gullible as i think i was. Give storm his due ,his first books fair swung along at a great pace..id say his book was far more influential in promoting the legend ,than any book or pamphlet before,or indeed after..not in a factual way ,but in a kind of "king solomons mine" rip roaring adventure way. but with very few exceptions that is the way of book publishing,newspaper reporting and today internet headlines. being economical with the truth never hurt either ely or storm.dIDnt storm get involved with a law suit against the lust for gold film makers..i remember vaguely him accusing them of being part of a communist conspiracy against him and his "literary masterpieces" (dunno whether to laugh or cry at that)..anyhow tks for replying ..kind regards
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cuzzinjack
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Re: Rendezvous and Ely's Book

Post by cuzzinjack »

Hello don and Thomas,

I too had a 1952 copy of “The Lost Dutchman Mine”, and it’s surprising that Sims Ely has come under scrutiny here. From what I’ve read, Sims wrote the manuscript while near-deathbed. He had no axes to grind, no fortune to be made. He admitted that the only real physical evidence that he and Bark found was the stumped area at Soldier Camp and the trail to the top of Bluff Springs Mountain. Regardless of how the manuscript was massaged, these facts remained in the published book. It was the first book I read on the subject, and was very inspiring to me. Ely and Bark spent their entire lives looking for the mines, off and on, and were true believers.

Immediately after I gave my presentation last February at the SME convention in Phoenix about the Molly Marie Prospect, a person approached me from a medium-sized mining company and said, “Yes, you’ve got an IOCG deposit, and it’s a little spotty. Do you want to sell it?” I told him, “Not at this time.”

Having this person approach me with this statement, is quite honestly, the greatest accomplishment of my life, and it’s the fruition of almost 20 years of study and searching. I wish Sims and Jim were here to see the enormity of the mining that took place.

This was right before the Wuhan virus hit, and who would have known the chain of events that would take place. The relentless creation of fiat money worldwide, including crypto, will cause great inflation, and gold and copper will stand very, very tall.

cuzzinjack
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