Lost Dutchman Goldmine

Aurum wrote: “The SMHS should give credit to John and his family for any original information which derived from Jim Bark's collection, regardless of whom may have given the Society a copy of the Bark notes. Without the original hand written work, the complete accuracy of the copied notes will alway...

Here are some examples of postings in the SMJ section that might have received a wider response? Greg Davis wrote in reply to a posting by Azmula: “Azmula: I must confess that I have deliberately avoided stories pertaining to the Stone Map controversy. There are so many theorizes developing as to wh...

Right now this forum is divided into LDM Discussions, Superstition Mountain Journal and Info About New Forum. I wonder how other members might feel about combining the Superstition Mountain Journal part with the main forum – LDM Discussions? I don’t know about others, but I tend to miss items not po...

Zentull, Good to have new ideas, a different take on things. Not to take sides in this century old dispute, just a few thoughts. RE: “Thomas's purse which supposedly includes Waltzs naturalization papers, a Map and a deed for the mine from Peralta are stolen. The map possibly turns up in the form as...

Ron, I do not know if this what you mean, but in a book I have there is a story of a cave in the Superstition Mountains that becomes a tunnel with cut stones. Then there seems to have been a room with some artifacts and a spiral staircase. One man went down the staircase and came to a room with a gi...

In this discussion let’s not forget that there are those who respect the mountains and what they hold: men who have carried the ashes of their friends in for a private burial, men who respect the beliefs of others, men who love and carefor the those mountains, men who have tried to preserve their hi...

In Granger's Arizona Place Names under La Barge Canyon it says La Barge was reported to have been “a companion of Waltz of the Lost Dutchman Mine.” This is the only reference I have seen linking LaBarge and Waltz. I wonder if there is any substance to it?

I am not one to engage in back-and-forths. Laundry list-postings of such become boring reading quickly and I believe that the forum is better served and enjoyed when we address issues – history, clues, sources, etc., and not each other. And there is a serious issue raised by this topic. You know, it...

I have heard a bit about this trip too. Seems to me a couple of important issues are raised. First, it says a lot about who is and who is not a Dutch Hunter and to what end their information may be put. Second, on this one Peter I would be careful about trying to take the moral high ground as you co...

I am not sure I should post anymore, as after my last posting the discussion seemed to shut down for a week. It is not my intent to stifle discussion. I thought that I might try one last posting. It seems to me that there is a wild card in play, and that is what happened to the mines Waltz claimed i...

I do not want to get entangled in a mares nest. However, having said that I will wade in again. After all, its raining today (finally?) and this is a pleasant way to stay dry. Joe, first you have to consider that Apaches were only part of the problem two young men would face on their journey. They a...

I have not digested all the comments on this topic, so please pardon any omissions. However, from the postings I have read a couple of things strike me. First, about the possible crossing places of the Salt River. Interesting info, but I am not sure of its relevance. Where they could have crossed th...

Why is it we always remember the men of the Alamo, but forget Goliad? One of histories quirks? Or, is it something else?

A few notes on Julia and her search: she did not commit everything and quit when she ran out of money. She did sell her business and personally search until that money was gone. But, she had other assets she never invested in the search. Assets – including property – that, for whatever reason, she d...

Charlie, To the best of my understanding the distance traveled by wagon back in the late 1800s ranged from 6 to 20 miles a day. This is based on pioneer accounts for travel in a “covered wagon”. The distance depended on the condition of the horses/mules/oxen and the terrain. Six miles (sometimes les...

Charlie, Before striking out on the details of a story by Dobie, you would do well to check out the details from another source. Or, possibly from the sources Dobie used if they are available in the Dobie collections in Texas. J. Frank Dobie was a great preserver of lore, and he is a good read. But,...

Where the stone maps were found and who found them is a good question. There are several versions for each. Bob Ward seems to have had at least two himself. Compare “a spot east of highway60 between Apache Junction and Florence Jct by an iron bridge” with the location Bob told others on page 336 of ...

Heidi, There is a lot of romance and mis-information associated with the Jesuits in relation to mines and treasure. But, Aurum is right on the mark. In may be the Jesuits did not do mining, or even in some instances opposed it. However, the facts of the matter are that they did supply and support th...

Tracy, I agree it sort of depends on your perspective in looking at the mountains as to which is the first gorge on south side from the western end. Literally it IS what is known as Hog Canyon. But, is this the one they meant? I know of two ways trails were monumented. In the Bark Notes they are des...

Tracy, One of the few clues coming from different sources is the one about: "... the first gorge on the south side from the west end of the range the found a monumented trail…" (or a similar phrase). For example, it is found in the Ruth/Bicknell directions and in the Ortiz Map directions, ...

Tracy, My understanding is that the Twin Buttes were the start of the trail to the Superstitions. That is, that Spanish or Mexican parties coming up from Mexico headed for the Twin Buttes where they picked up a marked trail that lead them into the Superstitions. Which brings up an interesting questi...

Azmula wrote: “How can we confirm the story that Bob Corbin had the FBI authenticate the age of the Maps. Did he have the Maps classified as antiquities of the State of Arizona and placed in the Dept. of Minerals and Mining Museum?” Azmula, to pursue the story that Bob Corbin had the FBI authenticat...

Roger, Good points, but I wonder about some things, like the Apache threat keeping people out of the mountains back in the late 1870s/early 1880s. I don’t play down the Indian threat, but when I read newspapers from that time period there are stories of prospectors spending weeks deep in Apache coun...

I know of at least three different descriptions of the mine. The Bark Notes speak repeatedly of two funnel like pits with a tunnel below. Ely and, as I recall, Bicknell speak of a single pit with a tunnel below. While George Holmes and John D. Mitchell speak of a small shaft with a tunnel below. Non...

The question for me is why the LDM was not found before the First World War. Trails were fresh (more of less) and there were signs of the Mexican camps, fire beds, etc. Returning to an earlier thought, for me an even more curious question is why the mine was not discovered before 1885 when it was be...