Spanish Masons and the Occupation of the West Indies

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bill 711
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Spanish Masons and the Occupation of the West Indies

Post by bill 711 »

A document pertaining to the Spanish Masonic Government and the Jesuit Expulsion in 1767.

Nice evidence of the Spanish government's involvement in Masonry and the Jesuits possibly practicing the craft of advanced Masonry.


[page 51]

The Moquis—Franciscan Friars—Missions—Father Eusebio Francisco Kino—Nuestra Señora de los Dolores—Father Juan Maria de Salvatierra—Sobaipuris—Guevavi—Tumacacori—San Xavier del Bac—Pima Indians—Immaculate Conception—St. Andrew—San Pedro y San Pablo de Tubutama—Saric—Tucubabia—Santa Maria de Suamca—Cocospera—Casas Grandes—San Dionisio—Jesuits—Fr. Felipe Segesser—Fr. Juan Baptista Grasshoffer—Fr. Gaspar Steiger—Fr. Jose Carucho—Fr. Francisco Paver—Fr. Ignacio Keller—Fr. Jacob Sedelmair—Revolt of Pimas—Fr. Alonzo Espinosa—Fr. Ignacio Pfefferkorn—Fr. Jimeno—Fr. Pedro Rafael Diaz—Tucson—Santa Barbara—Buena Vista—Calabazas—Fr. Barera—Expulsion of Jesuits.

The first natives of Arizona to submit to Spanish authority were the Moquis, who occupied the territory which at that time was known as the province of Tusayan. These Indians had practically the same habits, customs and government as the Indians of Cibola. They were very intelligent and far advanced in civilization. Their houses were ordinarily three or four stories high, but some were seven stories. Of them, Casteñada says: ‘‘They cover their privy parts and all


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the immodest parts with cloths made like a sort of table napkin, with fringed edges and a tassel at each corner, which they tie over the hips. They wear long robes of feathers and of the skins of hares and cotton blankets. The women wear blankets, which they tie or knot over the left shoulder, leaving the right arm out. These serve to cover the body. They wear a neat, well-shaped outer garment of skin. They gather their hair over the two ears, making a frame which looks like an old-fashioned headdress.’’

‘‘This country is in a valley between mountains in the form of isolated cliffs. They cultivate the corn, which does not grow very high, in patches. There are three or four large fat ears, having each eight hundred grains, on every stalk, growing upward from the ground, something not seen before in these parts. There are large numbers of bears in this province, and lions, wild-cats, deer and otter. There are very fine turquoises, although not so many as was reported. They collect the pine nuts each year, and store them up in advance. A man does not have more than one wife. There are estufas, or hot rooms, in the village, which are the courtyards or places where they gather for consultations. They do not have chiefs as in New Spain, but are ruled by a council of the oldest men. They have priests who preach to them, whom they call papas (elder brothers). These are the elders. They go up on the highest roof of the village and preach to the village from there, like public criers, in the morning while the sun is rising, the whole village being silent and sitting in the galleries to listen. They tell them how they

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are to live, and I believe that they give certain commandments for them to keep, for there is no drunkenness among them nor sodomy nor sacrifice, neither do they eat human flesh or steal, but they are usually at work. The estufas belong to the whole village. It is a sacrilege for the women to go into the estufas to sleep. They make the cross as a sign of peace. They burn their dead, and throw the implements used in their work into the fire with the bodies.’’
As we shall see in the further progress of this work, they were great diplomats, intent upon preserving their independence as a tribe, bending their necks in submission to the religios when it was policy to do so, and renouncing the religion of the priests whenever a favorable opportunity presented itself. The records for eighty years after the expedition of Oñate, were destroyed by the revolution of the Pueblos, which occurred in 1680. During this time, the information which we have is only fragmentary, not only in reference to these Indians, but to those who inhabited the Gila, where the Franciscans were also endeavoring to bring the tribes under the control of the Church. As far as is known, there was never a permanent mission established among the Moquis, although priests were assigned to them from time to time, from whom they received religious instruction.

Bishop Salpointe, referring to the condition of the missions in New Mexico in 1626, says of the Moqui notion: ‘‘

This nation, as that of Zuni, from which it is separated by thirty leagues in the direction of the west, has a population of about 10,000 people


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distributed in several villages. The inhabitants at first joyfully received the religios, and listened to their instructions. But here, as elsewhere, the sorcerers got alarmed on seeing the confidence placed in the missionaries by the Indians, and tried to destroy it by ridiculing it either publicly or privately in all their speeches. As a consequence of this, and perhaps at the instigation of the sorcerers themselves, a large number of Indians, either Christians or infidels, presented themselves to the priest who oftentimes spoke to them on the power of the cross, and showing him a young man born blind, made him this proposition: ‘‘Padre, if your cross has as much power as you say, why do you not try to give by it his sight to this young man? If the trial proves successful, it will be for us the proof that what you say to us is the truth, and we will believe in your word.’’

The missionary thought it his duty to accept the challenge and relied on the grace of God for the result of what he was about to try for His greater glory. Having prayed a short time on his knees before the cross, he applied it to the eyes of the boy, who, at once, was by it made able to see. Struck by the miracle, the Indians kept their word, and applied to the religios for instruction, and for admission to baptism, those who had remained as yet in the state of infidelity.

’’

It is to be regretted that the worthy Bishop does not give us the name of the priest who performed this miracle, and its exact date.

Bancroft, in the History of Arizona and New Mexico, says: ‘‘At the beginning of the century


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(the 17th) the Moquis, like the other pueblos, accepted Christianity, were often visited by the friars from the first, and probably were under resident missionaries almost continuously for eight years; yet of all this period we know only that Fra Francisco Porras, who worked long in this field, converting some 800 souls at Aguatuvi, was killed by poison at his post in 1633; that Governor Penalosa is said to have visited the pueblos in 1661–4; and that in 1680, four Franciscans were serving the five towns, or three missions. These were Jose Figueroa at San Bernardino de Aguatuvi; Jose Trujillo at San Bartolome de Jougopavi, with the visita of Moxainavi, and Jose Espeleta, with Agustin de Santa Maria, at San Francisco de Oraibe and Gualpi, all of whom lost their lives in the great revolt. From that time the valiant Moquis maintained their independence of all Spanish or Christian control. It is not clear that they sent their warriors to take part in the wars of 1680–96 in New Mexico, but they probably did so, and certainly afforded protection to fugitives from the other pueblos, the Tehuas and others, even building a new town adjoining those of the Moquis, in which part of the tribe lived from that period. In 1692, they had, like the other nations, professed their willingness to submit to Governor Vargas; but in the following years, no attempt to compel their submission is recorded. In 1700, however, fearing an invasion, they affected penitence, permitted a friar to baptize a few children, and negotiated in vain with the Spaniards for a treaty that should permit each nation to retain its own religion.’’


[page 56]

At intervals of every few years from 1700, there were visitas of Franciscan friars and military detachments, the first to attempt the spiritual reconquest, and the latter to force subjugation by threats of war, but nothing was effected, these proud chieftains maintaining their independence of Spanish or Christian control, which is preserved to a great extent up to this time.

To Father Kino, subsequently known as the Great Apostle to the Pimas, belongs the credit of establishing the first missions in Arizona. He was a Jesuit priest, and before accepting priestly orders, had acquired some reputation as a mathematician. He declined a professional chair in the college of Ingolstadt in Bavaria, because, believing that he had been restored to health from a dangerous sickness through the intervention of St. Francis Xavier, at the Throne of Grace, he determined to devote his life to the conversion of the heathen in America, adding Francisco to his name, which became Eusebio Francisco Quino, afterwards changed by the Spanish to Kino. The date of his birth is unknown, but is stated to have been somewhere about 1640. He was a native of Trent, in the Austrian Tyrol, and a near relative of Martin Martini, S. J., a notable missionary in Asia. He died in the year 1711, having devoted twenty-six years of his life to missionary work in Sonora and Arizona.

His first mission, that of Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, was founded on March 13th, 1687, near Ures, Sonora, Mexico, which mission thereafter, was the base from which his various expeditions into Sonora and elsewhere were started.


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In 1690, Father Kino, who had established several other missions was visited by Father Juan Maria de Salvatierra, who had been sent by his superiors as visitador general. These two missionaries, says Francisco Velasco, were followed by Indians, asking to be instructed and admitted as members of the Catholic religion. Among them were the Sobahpuris, who lived on the San Pedro, and had come over a distance of 200 miles to ask the priests to follow them to the place called Guevavi, where they had their villages. Their petition was granted. The missionaries followed them and founded for their tribe a mission which was given the name of the place. This mission, now abandoned for a long time, was the first established on the soil of Arizona. It is in the same region that the missions of Tumacacuri and San Xavier del Bac were subsequently founded, along the course of the Santa Cruz River. According to the Rt. Rev. Thomas O'Gorman, the church of Guevavi and that of San Xavier del Bac would have been built by Father Kino in 1687.

In 1694, Kino visited the Pima Indians in the neighborhood of the Casas Grandes, where he established two missions, the Immaculate Conception and St. Andrew.

The above is taken from Salpointe (Soldiers of the Cross), but in an appendix to Garces Diary, by Elliott Coues, I find the following:

‘‘In December of that year (1690), Father Juan Maria de Salvatierra, was appointed superior and visitador of Sinaloa and Sonora; he came to Dolores whence he went with Kino to the other places above named (San Jose de Himeris

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and San Ignacio); whence the two congenial spirits pushed further into Pimeria Alta, laying great plans for spiritual conquests to be extended to California and elsewhere. Ortega, pp. 248–252, names places visited on this entrada of 1691 as follows: From Dolores by way of Santa Maria Magdalena pueblo and a land called El Tupo to the mission of San Pedro y San Pablo de Tubutama (on Rio Altar); place still so called, and probably in 1691 not yet a regular mission, though Kino may have operated there; thence to Saric (still so called on the same river), and Tucubabia in the same vicinity. Here they were met by a delegation of Sobaipuris, from the region about the modern (San Cayetano de) Tumacacori in southern Arizona, begging for padres; the fathers determined to go to (acercares) the Sobaipuris, and did so, says Ortega, p. 249, reaching in 15 leagues the rancheria called Guevavi where, in Ortega's time (al presente—1752) there was a mission; but it does not appear that Guevavi was the place where the Sobaipuris were met or a mission was then founded; and all those who so state must have misread their Ortega. However, the latter clearly states that the priests pushed on to San Cayetano Tumacacori (sic); and this place being close to Tubac, Kino now makes his first entrada into Arizona, at or near our recent Fort Mason, on the Santa Cruz river. The fathers then went to Santa Maria de Suamca, a place almost on our boundary, east of Los Nogales; and thence to Cocospera, easily found on a modern map. There they separated, Kino tarrying

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awhile, and Salvatierra returning from his extended tour of inspection.’’
In 1692 Kino made his second entrada into Arizona, early in September, pushing on as far as San Xavier del Bac, and returning to Dolores on December 11, 1692.

In 1694 he was informed by some Indians from Bac of the Casas Grandes on the Gila, and went alone to examine them. This time he reached the Gila and said mass in the Casas Grandes, and he was, according to Dellenbaugh and other noted modern authorities, the first white man to view these ruins.

In November, 1697, was undertaken the first formal exploration into Arizona of which any detailed account survives. Of this expedition, Bancroft says: ‘‘Lieutenant Cristobal Martin Bernal, with Alferez Francisco Acuma, a sergeant, and twenty soldiers, marched from Fronteras via Terrenate and Suamca, while Kino and Mange with ten servants came from Dolores. The two parties united at Quiburi, not far from the site of the modern Tombstone; Coro, a Sobaipuri chief, with thirty warriors, joined the expedition, and all marched down the Rio Quiburi, since called the San Pedro, to its junction with the Gila, now so called in the records for the first time, though, as we have seen, the Gila province of New Mexico, was named as early as 1630. Down the main river went the explorers to and a little beyond the Casa Grande, which is, for the first time, described and pictured by simple drawings in the diaries. From the Gila they returned southward up the river, since called the Santa Cruz, by way of Bac and Guevavi,


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reaching Dolores at the beginning of December. They had marched 260 leagues, had been warmly welcomed everywhere, had registered 4,700 natives, and baptized 89, besides conferring badges of office on many chieftains.’’

Space does not permit me to follow all the wanderings of this tireless explorer, who made altogether thirteen entradas into Arizona. Concerning the last expeditions of Father Kino into Arizona, and the Jesuit administration in Arizona, Engelhardt says: ‘‘

In April and May, 1700, Fr. Kino was again at Bac and laid the foundation of a large church, which the natives were eager to build, but respecting the further progress of which nothing is known. In September Fr. Kino was in the Yuma country, and gave the name of San Dionisio to a Yuma rancheria at the junction of the Gila with the Colorado. In 1701 Fr. Kino and Fr. Salvatierra again appeared at Bac and Tumacacori. Some time after the venerable explorer passed from Sonoita to the Gila and the Colorado and visited the Yumas in their rancherias. Early in 1702, Fr. Kino made his last trip to the Gila and Colorado, and this was also, as far as known, the last time he crossed the Arizona line. ‘‘There is no satisfactory evidence,’’ said Bancroft, ‘‘that Arizona had either a regular mission or a resident Jesuit priest before Kino's death in 1711. A few rumors of padres stationed there can be traced to no definite source; and the whole tenor of such records as exist is against them.’’

After Fr. Kino's death, for more than twenty years, no Spaniard is known to have entered Arizona. It is not unlikely that a missionary


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may have visited the rancherias of the Santa Cruz valley, but there is no proof of such trips into Arizona. All communication gradually ceased; the Gila tribes forgot what Fr. Kino had taught them, and even the nearer Pimas and Sobaipuris lost much of their zeal for mission life. Only two or three Jesuits are known to have worked in the field of the Pimeria Alta near the Arizona line before 1730.

In 1731 there came a small re-enforcement of Jesuits; two of them were sent to the north and effected what may be regarded as the first Spanish settlement in southern Arizona. Fr. Felipe Segesser took charge of San Xavier del Bac, Fr. Juan Baptista Grasshoffer of San Miguel de Guevavi, which from this time may be regarded as regular missions, the other rancherias becoming visitas or missionary stations. It is probable that during the rest of the Jesuit period, the two missions were but rarely without priests. Fr. Grasshoffer died; Fr. Caspar Steiger was at Bac in 1773–1736; and in 1750 the missionaries were Fr. Jose Carucho at Guevavi, and Fr. Francisco Paver at San Xavier del Bac. In 1736–1737, Fr. Ignacio Keller of Suamca, in Sonora, made two trips to the Gila and visited the Casa Grande. He found that many of the rancherias of Kino's time had been broken up.

In 1743, Fr. Jacob Sedelmair of Tubutama reached the Gila and in the following year attempted to visit the Moquis in the north, but owing to the unwillingness of the Indians to guide him, he did not get beyond Bill Williams' Fork.


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In 1750 occurred the second revolt of the Pima tribes, in which two missionaries at Caborca and Sonoita, were killed, as were about 100 Spaniards. Bac and Guevavi were plundered and abandoned, but the two Jesuits escaped to Suamca. Peace was restored in 1752 and the missions reoccupied in 1754.

During the remaining years of the Jesuit period, 1754–1767, the missions of the Pimeria Alta barely maintained a precarious existence. ‘‘A few neophytes were induced to remain faithful, but the natives lived for the most part as they pleased, not openly rebellious, nor disposed to molest the padres, so long as the latter attempted no control of their actions, and were willing to take their part in quarrels with settlers or soldiers. Missionary work was at a standstill.’’ Exactly how long the missions had been abandoned after the revolt of 1750 is not known, but in 1763 Fr. Alonzo Espinosa was in charge of Bac, as he was still at the time of the Jesuit expulsion in 1767. At Guevavi the missionaries were Fr. Ignacio Pfefferkorn in 1763, Fr. Jimeno in 1764, and Fr. Pedro Rafael Diaz in 1767. The rancheria of Tucson was a visita of Bac in these years, and a few Spanish settlers seem to have lived there; but in 1763 it was, like the mission, abandoned by all except a few sick and infirm Indians. There were also nearly 200 Spanish settlers at Guevavi, Santa Barbara, and Buenavista. The missionary stations at Tumacacori and Calabazas were composed of Pima and Papago neophytes; but the latter had run away in 1763. Respecting the expulsion of the devoted Jesuit Fathers by the Free Mason government of Spain in 1767 nothing is known, except the names of the three Fathers Espinosa, Dias and Barera, the latter at Suamca. The whole number of neophytes in 1764–1767, seems to have been about 1,250.

From the Spanish names on early maps, the conclusion has been drawn that, up to the Gila Valley, Arizona was covered with prosperous Spanish missions and settlements which had to be abandoned later in consequence of Apache raids; but the truth is, there was no Spanish occupation beyond a narrow region of the Santa Cruz valley, and even there were only the two missions Bac and Guevavi, with a few rancherias de visita under resident missionaries from 1732, or possibly 1720, and protected in their precarious existence by the Tubac presidio from 1752. The Spanish names of saints were simply those applied by Kino and his associates to the rancherias visited on their exploring tours, whose inhabitants, in some instances, were induced to make preparations for the reception of the missionaries promised, but who never came. It has also been the fashion to regard Tucson as a more or less prosperous town from a very early time. Some writers even date its foundation in the sixteenth century, though, as a matter of fact, it is not heard of as an Indian rancheria till the middle of the eighteenth century, and was not properly a Spanish settlement till the presidio was moved there in later years.

After the Masonic government of Spain in 1767 had expelled the devoted Jesuits, all the mission property, since it was regarded as belonging to the missionaries and not to the Indians, was confiscated, and its care temporarily intrusted to royal comisionados. The result was that in 1793 the viceroy wrote: ‘‘There is no reason to doubt that they either wasted or embezzled the rich temporalities of all or most of the missions, and that these funds were lost, and decadence or ruin could not be prevented.’’ ’’
University of Arizona Southwest Archives

What do yo think?

Best,


Bill
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Post by Somehiker »

Free-Masonry was growing and extending itself throughout influential circles. In 1760 the Gran Logia española was organized and independence of London was established; in 1780 this was changed to a Grand Orient, symbolical Masonry being subordinated to the Scottish Rite. In this we are told that such men as Aranda, Campomanes, Rodríguez, Nava del Rio, Salazar y Valle, Jovellanos, the Duke of Alva, the Marquis of Valdelirias, the Count of Montijo and others were active; that the ministers of [303] Carlos III were mostly Masons and that to them was attributable the energetic action against Jesuitism and Ultramontanism. (14) To what extent this is true, it would be impossible to speak positively, but unquestionably Masonry afforded a refuge for the modern spirit in which to develop itself against the oppressive Obscurantism of the Inquisition.

A disturbing element was furnished by Cagliostro who, in his two visits to Spain, founded the lodge España, in competition with the Grand Orient. This attracted the more adventurous spirits and grew to be revolutionary in character. It was the centre of the foolish republican conspiracy of 1796, known as the conspiracy of San Bias, from the day selected for the outbreak. Arms were collected in the lodge, but the plot was betrayed to the police; three of the leaders were condemned to death but, at the intercession of the French ambassador, the sentence was commuted to imprisonment for life. The chiefs were deported to Laguayra where they captured the sympathies of their guards and were enabled to escape. In 1797 they organized a fresh conspiracy in Caraccas, but it was discovered and six of those implicated were executed. (15)

http://libro.uca.edu/lea4/8lea12.htm

From:A History of the Inquistion of Spain
Volume Four
Henry Charles Lea

Interesting that Masonic influence is thought to have played some part in the expulsion of the Jesuits.Once persecuted under the Inquisition, it is apparent that infiltration of Masons to the Royal Court helped to bring about the end of the Inquisition itself, as well.Could such infiltration have occured within the ranks of the Jesuits by the Masons,a society second only to the Knights Templar in duty to secrecy?Could Jesuit secrets have become Masonic secrets?
SH.
Joe Ribaudo
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Jesuit Masons?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

I doubt there is any evidence of Masonic involvement within the Jesuit Order. It is also unlikely that any of the Jesuits were Masons.

Can anyone supply a direct historical link?

As always, I could be wrong.

Joe Ribaudo
bill 711
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Post by bill 711 »

Expulsion of the Jesuits
Despite its religious orthodoxy and the relative piety of its rulers, the eighteenth-century monarchy, ever jealous of its preeminent authority, was not infrequently involved in conflict with the church or elements thereof. During the feeble reign of Carlos II, the papacy had succeeded in reasserting control over a broad spectrum of Spanish church affairs and appointments. In the eighteenth century, there remained long-standing uncertainties about various areas of jurisdiction, and about such key issues as the extent of the church's liability to taxation and the pase regio, or royal right to regulate or veto publication of non-dogmatic papal pronouncements. Those both inside and outside the church who supported an increase in royal power for purposes of reform were known as regalistas. Local jurisdictional conflicts became so severe that the regalists were wont to say that any corregidor who had not been placed under excommunication for at least half of each year could hardly be discharging his administrative responsibilities zealously. The Concordat of 1753 resolved some of the main points at issue, restoring to the crown control over most major appointments, but other difficulties remained.

The major church controversy during the first years of Carlos III's reign concerned the power and loyalty of the Jesuit order. For two hundred years, the Jesuits had been the chief institutional representative of papal influence in western and central Europe. Their talent, their control of quality education, and their influence as confessors of aristocrats and royalty had made them a force to be reckoned with and had drawn the suspicion and envy of Catholic rulers in various countries. Some of the strongest opposition to the Jesuits in the 1760s came from within the church itself, for their wealth and influence had [362] also elicited keen rivalry from other orders. In turn, Jesuits called regalists among both government officials and church reformers "Jansenists," illogically applying to them the name of the Jesuits' earlier chief religious foe within French Catholicism. Yet the name stuck, and Spanish regalists have frequently been termed jansenistas.

The beginnings of secularization in Spanish culture and education were just making their appearance, as was Spanish Masonry. The first English-rite lodge had been established in Spain in 1727, followed by influential currents from French Masonry. After papal condemnation, Fernando VI banned Masonry from Spain in 1751 , but it returned to the l760s in a number of small lodges. One of the king's chief advisers, the deist grande Conde de Aranda, was the grand orient of the principal Masonic rite. Moreover, steps were being taken to further curb the powers of the Inquisition, which had become relatively inactive. To all this the Jesuits were strongly opposed.
The crown was determined to extend royal power and press positive reforms. In addition to all the common charges, D. Carlos was especially apprehensive of the Jesuits because of two recent developments. First, the Jesuits bad attempted to use the crisis provoked by the Lisbon earthquake to gain further leverage on the neighboring Portuguese monarchy. Second, they had strongly protested the 1763 treaty with England and Portugal (which had given Uruguay to Portugal and so provided further opportunity for Brazilian attacks against the Jesuit settlements in Paraguay).

The latent struggle came to a head after the "Motín de Esquilache" in 1766. The king's Italian finance minister, Squillaci ("Esquilache"), was extremely unpopular because of his enforcement of tax reforms and sumptuary edicts. There had been a long list of such endeavors in the past, but Squillaci was particularly resented as a foreigner and because harvests had been poor for six years in a row, raising the price of bread. A new decree of 1766 forbidding the citizens of Madrid to wear the traditional long cape and broad-brimmed round hat (in order to expose criminals more easily) provoked a popular riot in which Squillaci's house was sacked. The outburst was apparently encouraged by obscure elements drawn from the aristocracy, clergy, and middle classes of Madrid. This was, however, a bread riot as much or more than anything else, and was accompanied by similar disturbances in a number of provincial towns. The king was forced to dismiss his minister, but frightened by the riot and more jealous than ever of royal power, he determined to prevent such a thing from ever happening again.

The deist anti-Jesuit Conde de Aranda was appointed chief minister, and in the months that followed the Jesuits were made scapegoats for the whole affair. The contemporary movement to expel the Jesuits [363] from Portugal was strongly felt in Spain, and the enemies of the Jesuits in the church were eager to be rid of rivals. On the grounds of subversive agitation and plotting for a "universal government," the Jesuits were expelled from Spain in 1767, and after pressure from the crowns of France, Spain, and Portugal, the order was dissolved six years later by the papacy.


The Domestic Reforms of Carlos III
Though its achievements on the international plane were notable, the reign of Carlos III owes its fame chiefly to its many domestic reforms. These were predicated on the overriding authority of the crown, which was much more nearly absolute under the eighteenth-century Bourbons than under the Habsburgs. The glory of the monarchy and its concern for a strong, enlightened kingdom were held to require a program of basic reform that would make Spain more orderly, rational, educated, and productive. Monarchist reformism had little to do with representative government or the subsequent era of liberalism, for it functioned almost exclusively from the top downward. Carlos III always remained jealous in the extreme of the prerogatives and majesty of the Spanish monarchy
.

http://libro.uca.edu/payne2/payne16.htm

You may be right Joe.

But, lets take a close look at the Cloak and Hat Riots and the dates of the Expulsions of the Jesuits and Masonry being under attack by the Vatican and Kings. It's strange the dates coincide with the uprising of the Indians in 1751 in the West Indies.

Bill
bill 711
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Post by bill 711 »

Throughout Europe, Freemasonry was at the vanguard of the Enlightenment. The society's secret nature and its adherence to Deism put it into direct conflict with religious dogma. Freemasonry also had many members in the Americas and was a contributor to the independence movements there. In Brazil, Freemasonry was also a major player in independence. The major difference in Brazilian Masonry was its relationship with the church. Unlike European clergy, those in Brazil embraced and participated openly in Masonry until the nineteenth century. In order to understand the importance of Freemasonry it is necessary to examine the origins and the nature of the society. This secret society with ambiguous origins played an influential role in society, government, and even religion in the nineteenth century. It became a tool for intellectuals seeking to communicate the progressive ideas of the Enlightenment. Furthermore, Masonry was a symbol of anti-clericalism to many in the hierarchy of the nineteenth century church.

First, to establish the sweeping importance of Freemasonry, its history and its revolutionary nature must first be examined; however, the true roots of Freemasonry are tenuous to discern. Shrouded in mystery and mysticism, the secretive nature of Freemasonry seems to welcome wild speculation. Even today, Freemasonry retains its occult aura. The legendary origins of masonry can be traced back to the tower of Babel and the Druids. [32] The Knights Templer and the Crusades are other parts of the society's mythical past. Although the legendary origins of Freemasonry, as stated above, are highly entertaining, the historical origins of Freemasonry, as it existed in the nineteenth century, are somewhat less mystical and easier to trace and can be found in eighteenth century London. [33]

Membership into Masonry was once exclusive for professional stone masons, and during medieval times Freemasonry served as a guild devoted to keeping the secrets of masonry for the builders of cathedrals and castles. However, the organization that existed in the eighteenth century reached out to the intellectual. Men of all social positions were free to join the brotherhood. However, Freemasonry, because of the ideas disseminated in the lodges, was considered revolutionary, and the secrecy involved with those lodges helped augment its revolutionary image; as a result, Freemasonry was blamed for almost every conspiracy and intrigue in the latter half of the eighteenth century and the first half of the nineteenth century. Although Freemasonry's role in most conspiracies has been exaggerated by way of myth, the brotherhood did champion the ideas of liberalism in Europe.

From its beginnings Freemasonry received the cold shoulder from the Catholic Church. The church resented the use of the bible in Masonic rituals and believed the organization, partly because of its secretive nature, to be sacrilegious. The church was also fully aware that Freemasonry fostered the ideas of liberalism which were by nature anticlerical. Furthermore, Freemasonry, in many places, was beginning to take on some of the church's duties. Thus, several popes took stands against Masonry and issued decrees renouncing the organization.

Despite the church's efforts to discredit Freemasonry, membership in lodges grew prodigiously during the Enlightenment. In England, Scotland, France, Spain, and Portugal, Masonic lodges attracted the elite intellectuals of the day. In the Americas, Masonic influences appeared in the United States and can be seen in the Latin American neighbors as well. Many of the founding fathers, including George Washington, were members of Masonic lodges. In fact many portraits of Washington depict him in his Masonic regalia, and he dedicated the capital building wearing his Masonic apron and carrying a silver trowel, a Masonic symbol. The legacy of Freemasonry in the United States can still be seen; for example, the Washington Monument is inscribed with Masonic symbolism and paper currency contains Masonic imagery. This was all due to the devotion to Masonry of many men who were central figures in the struggle for independence in North America. [34]

Likewise, in Latin America, Freemasonry came to the forefront of the independence movements. Simón Bolívar and other leaders of independence had been inducted into Freemasonry and were fully aware of Masonry's liberal teachings. [35] Even in latter times Latin American leaders like Mexico's Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna used Freemasonry as a political tool. [36]

In Portugal, the first Masonic lodge was established by French delegates in 1727. [37] Freemasonry made its way to Brazil in the nineteenth century, where, from its onset was of a revolutionary nature. Although Freemasonry was not officially established in Brazil until 1807, secret societies, which preceded Masonry, appeared several years earlier. At the end of the eighteenth century, botanist Manuel de Arruda Câmara, who had been educated at the Universities of Coimbra and Montpellier and who had participated in revolutionary movements in France, returned to Brazil and founded a secret society in Pernambuco known as the Areópago. [38] Many prominent Brazilians joined the Areópago including Antônio Carlos Ribeiro de Andrada, brother of José Bonifácio de Andrada. [39] Members of the clergy also frequented the society. It was in the Areópago where conspirators formulated a plan to establish Pernambuco as a republic under the leadership of Napoleon in 1801; the discovery of the plot led to the demise of the Areópago. Soon, however, other societies appeared on the scene, and the first Masonic lodge was founded in Bahia in 1807.

The number of Masonic lodges in Brazil proliferated in the nineteenth century. From scattered beginnings, lodges could now be found throughout the country. Father Ribeiro Pessoa founded the Academia do Paraiso which played a part in the failed Pernambucan Revolt of 1817, an attempt to establish an independent republic in the north. Under the auspices of the Grand Orient Lodge of Portugal, the Grand Orient Lodge of France, or independent lodges, new lodges were established in Rio de Janeiro, Baía, and other regions. [40]

The composition of Masonry in Brazil was an odd mix. Most of its members were, however, those men who, for one reason or another, considered themselves Brazil's intellectuals. They were businessmen, statesmen, lawyers, and other prominent members of society. However, in Brazil, many members of the clergy joined Masonry, despite the contradiction with church teachings. The members of the lodges had sworn to defend liberal and constitutional principles that Freemasonry in Europe advocated. [41]

Freemasonry has been both justly and unjustly accused for its participation in revolutionary activity. The fear of Freemasonry and the societies' leanings toward a rebellious nature prompted Portuguese officials to abolish Freemasonry and declare all secret societies criminal. [42] The Pernambucan Revolt of 1817 led to persecution of the lodges and the law of 1818 that prohibited secret societies; however, the law was not rigorously enforced, despite the fact that it remained on the books throughout the century. [43] Thornton observed, "the plans for independence germinated during this period of governmental suppression." [44] Manoel Cardozo reiterates this point by stating, "it is clear that revolutionary movements were centered in the Masonic lodges." [45] The Comércio e Artes lodge was established by patriots seeking independence, and the lodge had to be divided into three lodges in 1822 due to increases in membership, along with the Comércio e Artes, the Cenião e Tranquilidade and the Esperança de Niteró. Finally, a Brazilian Grand Orient was founded with José Bonifácio de Andrada as Grand Master.

The revolutionary-prone Masons did manage to establish themselves in the good graces of most Brazilian clergy, despite the fact that Masonry was contrary to Catholic dogma. In Salvador, as early as 1813, the Archbishop, a Mason himself, had a portrait of George IV, the Prince Regent of England, dressed in full Masonic regalia displayed publicly in a local church. [46] Throughout Brazil many priests were accused of using the church to spread anti-Portuguese ideas, of being Masons, or being guerrilla leaders. [47] In fact, the priests were assigned the greatest blame for the Pernambucan Revolt of 1817, which has been dubbed the "Revolution of the Priest" by historians. The precursor to the revolt was Bishop Azevedo Coutinho, the founder of the Seminario de Olinda. Priests, numbering fifty-seven, were imprisoned alongside other patriots after the revolt was suppressed. [48] Although a number of priests favored independence from Brazil, few accepted the establishment of a republican form of government. The liberals went so far as to cheer for revolution and religion, giving the impression that they were committed to the church; however, this, as we shall observe, was simply a façade. [49] In fact, the relationship between the clergy, liberals, and Masons in nineteenth century Brazil could be classified as paradoxical. Although the clergy's ideology was in direct opposition to that of the liberals and Masons, each side had reached an unspoken, conciliatory agreement in order to achieve a common goal; independence.

For the church's part, its representatives resented, above all else, the grant of Royal Patronage to the Portuguese kings. [50] The church was displeased with the crown's use of the tithes and the pay of clerics, it is important to remember that the crown was in charge of paying the clergy and for the upkeep of holy edifices. Unfortunately, the crown, despite increased collection of the tithe due to the growth in population, failed to compensate the clerics adequately; in fact, priestly wages had not increased at all, leaving the majority of priests to either live in a state of penury or take on work responsibilities which fell outside of their priestly duties. Costa contends that it was the church's hostility toward the system that forced them to commit to liberal ideas, and as a result, anticlericalism and secular tendencies inherent to European liberalism did not exist in the liberalism of early nineteenth century Brazil. [51] In addition to their part in the Pernambucan Revolt of 1817, revolutionary clergy members also took part in the Inconfidencia Mineira and in the Confederation of the Equator in 1824. [52] George Boehrer observed that the isolated clergy in Brazil did not, as European clergy did, retreat into ultramontanism, which was brought on by the fear of the events of the French Revolution; instead, the Brazilian Church embraced a liberal attitude not found in other Catholic countries. [53] Be that as it may, the political marriage between the liberal camp and the religious camp was one of convenience and did not stand the test of time.

Unfortunately for the nascent Kingdom of Brazil, troubles brewing on the Iberian peninsula disturbed the harmony that had accompanied the arrival of the Portuguese court. Sparked by a liberal coup in Spain, Portuguese liberals revolted in 1820 and demanded the return of King João VI to Portugal and the implementation of a constitution. The mother country, which had taken a backseat to its colony, rallied for a return to preeminence in the empire. Under pressure from the revolutionary junta in Portugal, King João agreed to return and rule Portugal. However, João realized the precarious situation that Brazil would be placed in upon his departure; thus, he impressed upon his son, Dom Pedro, the importance of his role in Brazil.

Biography:

Melvin Davis is a PhD Candidate at the University of Alabama. He earned a BA from the University of North Alabama in History, a MA in Latin American Studies from the University of Alabama, and a MLIS from the University of Alabama. Currently his research interest is 19th and 20th century Mexico.

http://www.la.utexas.edu/research/paisa ... Dtext.html

Looks like the Brazilians and Mexicans were practicing Masonry in the Churches during the time of the Jesuit's influences in the West Indies.

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Re: Jesuit Masons?

Post by Somehiker »

Joe Ribaudo wrote:I doubt there is any evidence of Masonic involvement within the Jesuit Order. It is also unlikely that any of the Jesuits were Masons.

Can anyone supply a direct historical link?

As always, I could be wrong.

Joe Ribaudo
Not sure if this provides any Illumination on the topic Joe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Weishaupt
--most opinion re: Jesuit/Masonic links is best read while wearing a tinfoil hat. :lol: but history shows a bitter rivalry between two groups with similar goals.
SH.
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Post by bill 711 »

The sad facts of the matter are that the Vatican has been THE major player in the geopolitical arena for many centuries. And, for the past four centuries, the Jesuit Order (operating from within the Vatican) has been THE major player in both the geopolitical arena and the theological arena – and a very big player (through its Knights of Malta) in the financial arena and in the international intelligence community! The more I study history and the more ‘I turn over stones’, the more I find the ‘footsteps and fingerprints’ of the Vatican – and, again, more specifically, its Jesuit Order – involved in the most sinister and evil activities!

Indeed, the Jesuit Order (i.e., The Society of Jesus, ‘The Company’), headed by the Jesuit Superior General (i.e., the ‘Black Pope’), is the most formidable enemy to religious and civil liberty that the world has probably ever seen. The Jesuits became so infamous in Europe for fomenting wars and revolutions, and for assassinating heads of State, that they were expelled from 83 countries, city-states, and cities by 1931 – quite often by Roman Catholic monarchs!

The Jesuit Superior General, the Black Pope, not only controls his powerful Jesuit Order, but also controls the powerful Knights of Malta, top-level Knights of Columbus, and the top-levels of Freemasonry. Through his control of the top levels of Secret Societies (especially Knights of Malta and high-level Freemasons), he controls the top intelligence agencies of the world. A good example of this occurred in World War II: the top intelligence man in the OSS (later CIA) was Knight of Malta William “Wild Bill” Donovan; the top intelligence man in Nazi Germany on the eastern front was German Knight of Malta General Reinhard Gehlen; and the top intelligence man in the Soviet Union was Knight of Malta Prince Anton Turkul (who used Jesuit priests for his couriers). Thus, the Jesuit Order was in control of the major combatants, and able to ‘steer’ the war in the directions they wanted – and in the process to slaughter millions of their favorite targets (Jews, Protestants, and Orthodox Christians).
Additionally, because of his control of the Vatican hierarchy (through his Jesuit Order and P-2 Masonry), the Jesuit Superior General also has control and use of the ‘Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’ (i.e., the Office of Inquisition), the Roman Curia, and Vatican finances (which are substantial)! If all this does not make the ‘Black Pope’ the most powerful man on the face of the earth, I do not know what would.
Secret societies – most particularly the Jesuit Order with its Knights of Malta were top-level Freemasons.
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Opposing Factions.

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

In the period we are interested in, the Jesuits and the Masons were diametrically opposed. The Jesuits were forbidden to become Masons and the Masons would not be caught dead in Jesuit robes.

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Post by djui5 »

Wonder if Dutchie knew this Adam character. He would have been 20 when Adam died...

Just a thought. Carry on.
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The Papal Ban.....

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"For this reason, Clement XII (1730 - 1740) condemned Freemasonry as incompatible with Catholicism and penalized with excommunication all Catholics who joined the Lodges."

That ban was in force until it was lifted by Papal decree on Jan. 25, 1983.

Throughout that time, and even earlier, the Jesuits and the Masons were bitter enemies.

The above quote can be found on page 214 of, "The Jesuits....The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Cathlic Church" by, Malachi Martin.

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Post by bill 711 »

How did Mr Chuck Kenworthy find so much evidence of Masonry to publish in his books?

All of what Mr Kenworthy found is related to Masonry and of course the Kings would supply the Jesuit "Priest" to set up these highly masonic monuments and sites all similar to what the Knights Templar used.
The Horse symbol, the Witch or Priest, the Circle with a dot in the center and a circle with in circle from the Stone Maps all possible masonry.

It may be true that the Jesuit Archives are not open to the public to prove this theory but the evidence it is far from being "Tin Hat" (Wizard of OZ).

The slanted cross the heart and the triangle all Templar Masonics.

Kircher, Molina are but a few Jesuits that used secret codes also used in Masonry.

The ancient Atbash Code (Gematria) is one that was used by the Templars and Masons.

I will supply some more evidence down the road a bit as it comes in that just might make you remove your Foil Hats. Straight from the Archives of Spain.

Like I said for now it's just a possiblity.

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Post by Mike McChesney »

Not only is there no evidence to show any Jesuit connection to Freemasonry, there is ample evidence to show that the Church forbade it's members from being Freemasons. The following is thetext of a speech given to a Freemason Lodge in 1871. In it, the speaker says that until the early 1960s, the church would not allow any of it's members to be Freemasons.

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/roman_cat ... emason.htm


Best,

Mike
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Kenworthy

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Bill,

Chuck Kenworthy could find masonic signs in a fried egg.

Can you make an informed argument against the possibility of there being any Jesuit treasure?

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Post by Mike McChesney »

"bill 711"]How did Mr Chuck Kenworthy find so much evidence of Masonry to publish in his books?

All of what Mr Kenworthy found is related to Masonry and of course the Kings would supply the Jesuit "Priest" to set up these highly masonic monuments and sites all similar to what the Knights Templar used.
The Horse symbol, the Witch or Priest, the Circle with a dot in the center and a circle with in circle from the Stone Maps all possible masonry.

It may be true that the Jesuit Archives are not open to the public to prove this theory but the evidence it is far from being "Tin Hat" (Wizard of OZ).

The slanted cross the heart and the triangle all Templar Masonics.

Kircher, Molina are but a few Jesuits that used secret codes also used in Masonry.

The ancient Atbash Code (Gematria) is one that was used by the Templars and Masons.

I will supply some more evidence down the road a bit as it comes in that just might make you remove your Foil Hats. Straight from the Archives of Spain.

Like I said for now it's just a possiblity.

Bill
Which Molina are you talking about? If you are talking about the Molina of the Molina Document, that is a woman (Sister Michaela Molina), and thusly not a Mason.

Did Kenworthy ever mention Masons. or is that what you determine his findings meant? I have most of his books, and I have not found any Masonic References.

The Slanted Cross, Heart, and Triangle, are all well known Spanish markers.

Anything Masonic would most likely have used their most common symbols: The columns of Boaz and Jachin, The Compass, The Square, The Pyramid (Not the triangle), The Beehive, or The All-Seeing Eye. Anything Masonic would almost HAVE to have at least one or more of those symbols.

Best.

Mike
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Papal Ban

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Mike,

As I said in an earlier post, the Papal Ban was lifted in 1983. That fact will not convince the convinced. :lol:

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Post by Mike McChesney »

The origin of the Heart as a marker that means gold was taken from Cortez' 1519 first visit to Tenotchtitlan.

When they were talking, Moctezuma asked Cortez what was this Spanish preoccupation with gold? Cortez replied that the Spanish had a disease of the heart, that only gold could cure.

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Post by bill 711 »

An Article from Catholic Insight of the Catholic Chruch about Paul Fishers Book:


[Note: Catholic Insight does not share Mr. Fisher's position that the Novus Ordo Church is the Catholic Church or that any of the "Popes" since 1958 have been true Popes, since the Catholic Church cannot teach or universally legislate any error; the essay nevertheless is here reproduced for the important facts and findings about the infiltration of the Freemasons into the Catholic Church, making it the Novus Ordo Church. --M.D.]


In his article regarding Vatican II in the February 28th issue of The Remnant, Michael Matt refers to Michael Davies article in which he seems to suggest that "Masonic conspiracies" are part of "paranoid Traditional Catholic fantasies." With that in mind, allow me to offer a bit of history of prior Papal concern regarding Freemasonry and similar secret societies.

In his 1832 Encyclical "Mirari Vos," Pope Gregory XVI referenced a then current effort to make the Church relevant to society, so that "a foundation may be laid for a new human institution, and what Cyprian detested may come to pass, that is: what was a divine thing 'may become a human church.'"

His Holiness went on to list a few problems he faced, including "the abominable conspiracy against clerical celibacy, demands to relax the indissolubility of marriage, indifferentism, by which it is claimed eternal salvation is available to everyone regardless of their religious affiliations."

Some years later, in 1884, Pope Leo XIII, in Humanum Genus, his detailed encyclical against Freemasonry, identified "the perverse influence of Masonic opinions" as the source of the problems encountered by Gregory XVI. Humanum Genus is particularly important, because Leo stated precisely how he knew about the Fraternity by: its activities; various investigations of the Craft; its laws and commentaries; and knowledge provided by personal testimony of those who were in on the secret.

In an 1892 Encyclical to the Bishops of Italy, titled, Inimica Vis, he expressed particular concern regarding penetration of Masonry among the clergy, and Masonry's plans "to soften the opposition of the lower clergy with their promises." Masons, he continued, "wish to win over the clergy by cajolery; once the novelties have confused them, they will withdraw their obedience to legitimate authority.

"Far too many of our compatriots, driven by hope of their personal advantage, or by perverse ambition, have given their names or support to the sect.." He then cited the following remark of Pope Felix III [383 A.D.]: "An error which is not resisted is approved; a truth which is not defended is suppressed; and he who does not oppose an evident crime is open to the suspicion of secret complicity."

That letter to the Bishops of Italy was accompanied by another Encyclical, addressed to the people of Italy, titled: Custodi Di Quella Fede, This, too, was a fulsome exposure of Masonry's diabolical secret attacks on Church and State, and prompted him to warn: "The war against Freemasonry is so sinister," that it is urgent for Christians to use "all the prudence of the serpent while keeping in your heart the simplicity of the dove." He added further: That the people of Italy should avoid not only those who openly promote the Masons, but also "those who hide under the mask of universal tolerance, respect for all religions, and the craving to reconcile the maxims of the Gospel with those of the Revolution. These men seek to reconcile Christ and Belial, the Church of God and the State without God.

Pope Pius X stated in Pascendi Dominici Gregis, 1907, that those in "the ranks of the priesthood itself, who . . . thoroughly imbued with the poisonous doctrines taught by the enemies of the Church . . . who vaunt themselves as reformers of the Church; and . . . assail all that is most sacred in the work of Christ, not sparing even the person of the Divine Redeemer, whom, with sacrilegious daring, they reduce to simple man."

Pius X, in his 1906 Encyclical Letter, Pieni L'Animo, concerning the clergy of Italy, deplored "the spirit of insubordination and independence" among the clergy.

On May 23, 1958, Pius XII addressed the Seventh Week Pastoral Adaptation Conference in Italy, and observed: ". . . the roots of modern apostasy lay in scientific atheism, dialectical materialism, rationalism, illuminism, laicism, and Freemasonry - which is the mother of them all."

In summary, of the Vatican's 53 condemnations of Freemasonry and related secret societies during the 246-year period 1738-1984, one appeared once every four and one-half years, on average. Of the number, 21 specifically condemn Freemasonry.

With further reference to Michael Davies' position, I believe it was in the early 1970s, when I was Washington Correspondent for the National Catholic Register, that the editor showed me a letter sent by Michael Davies concerning the dangers of Masonry. The letter included either an article by Hamish Fraser, or a definite statement attributed to him, in which he stated that the Vatican had, at that time, issued some 200 documents condemning Freemasonry. However, the Register's editor did not choose to print the material.

In this connection, Henry C. Clausen, 33rd Degree, Sovereign Grand Commander of Scottish Rite Masonry of the Southern Jurisdiction makes the following remarks in his book, Clausen's Commentaries On Morals and Dogma (1974):

".. . . Many of our friends who are members [of the Catholic Church] reject as foreign to America the medieval fulminations against our Fraternity, realize how very much we have in common, accept the standards of American democracy, recognize we have a pluralistic system in a new and permanent form of relationship between religion and government, and call upon their church leaders to stop attacks upon Masonry and upon Masonic ceremonies. . ..

"Actually, a start, at least, has been made right in the Vatican. There have been discussions for liberalization of the restrictive provisions of canon laws. It has been said that since the codification of the canonic laws in the Codes Juris Canonici, the papal Bulls and Briefs are only the expressions of personal opinions."

And, of course, Canon Law was changed regarding Freemasonry. Further, a careful comparison of the changes in the words between the old and new canons are clearly significant.

The Grand Commander went on to note that Johann Cardinal Willebrands, President of the Secretariat for Christian Unity, addressed representative of the DeMolay Order on the occasion of the 50th Anniversary of the Orders' founding. The Cardinal noted that he was there at the direction of the Vatican Secretary of State.

DeMolay is a Masonic affiliate for young potential Masons, and honors Jacques de Molay, the first Grand Master of the Knights Templar. De Molay was burned at the stake in 1314, following an extensive trial which lasted from 1307 to 1314, under the authority of King Phillip the Fair of France and Pope Clement V.

The Scottish Rite's Knight Kadosh Degree (30th), honors de Molay. In that Degree's initiation ceremony, the candidate faces a table on which are three skulls. One is adorned with a papal tiara, a second has a regal crown, and the third skull is festooned with a laurel wreath, representing Jacques de Molay. The Grand Master of the Degree stabs the skull with the papal tiara as the candidate shouts "Down with Imposture! Down with crime!" The same procedure occurs regarding the skull with the royal crown. Finally, the candidate and the Master kneel before the skull adorned with the laurel leaf and say: "Everlasting glory to the immortal martyr of virtue." [i.e., de Molay].

The candidates then take a second oath to "strive unceasingly... for the overthrow of superstition, fanaticism, imposture and intolerance." There are two other oaths, and, finally, in the fourth oath the focus is on the "cruel and cowardly Pontiff, who sacrificed to his ambition the illustrious order of those Knights Templar of whom we are the true successors." Then all present trample on the papal tiara as they jointly shout: "Down with imposture.["]

Candidates in the 31st degree agree that the Masonic ideal of justice "is more lofty than the actualities of God. The 32nd Degree teache[s] that "Masonry will eventually rule the world."

Look on the back of a U.S. dollar bill and see the Masonic symbolism, and the words under the Masonic pyramid and the "All Seeing Eye": "Novus Ordo Seclorum, which means: "A New Order for the Ages, or, as we say: "A New World Order."

Also, in connection with Freemasonry and the Church, the following appears to be of significant interest.
A National Catholic News Service (NCNS) dispatch from Vatican City, dated August 4, 1976, written by Father Thomas Donlan, O.P., and forwarded to NCNS subscribers highlighted some parts of a 4,500-word article by Dominican Father Georges Cottier, which appeared at that time in the Vatican daily, L'Osservatore Romano. Father Cottier was then a consultant to the Vatican's Secretariat for Nonbelievers, although today he has a position that is considerably higher.

The article defended the Vatican's excommunication of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and Father Cottier expressed a mantra so common today among defenders of Freemasonry: "The traditionalist political ideology," he observed, "sees in the moto of the French Revolution, 'Liberty, Equality, Fraternity,' the essence of all the evils of the modern world and the expression of its apostasy."


Such people, he continued, "seem unaware that these three terms have become a part of the Church's agenda. In three important conciliar documents (on religious liberty, ecumenism, and the Church) the concepts of liberty, equality and fraternity are endorsed."


It is worth recalling that those three words also have long been the motto of International Freemasonry.
Fr. Cottier suggested that the Archbishop's political outlook harks back to the 18th century and the time of the monarchy and of the traditionalist political party, L'Accion Francaise, which was condemned by Pope Pius XI before World War II, colors his theological and liturgical positions.





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Paul A. Fisher is author of Behind the Lodge Door. Please click here for more information on this book.


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Post by bill 711 »

If there was no Jesuit Masons in the West Indies hiding Treasures and Mines then who was it?
Possibly the Spanish Government itself or Masonic organizations hired by the King to hide the Mines?

If it's true the Jesuits were not Masons how did a set of Stone Maps relating to Masonry and the Horse of the Templars get here?

Maybe we are all the victoms of a early Mason's Hoax.

I believe in Chuck Kenworthy's work. I have spoke his son Tiger Kenworthy on the phone and E-Mailed him numerous times about his Fathers work. This I did while discussing my Gold Mine Claim and property. He's a good man. But, he's also a Lawyer and wouldn't talk to much about anything related to his fathers work or the true meaning of the signs and symbols in his (Tiger's) books.
He informed me that the books were written by him (Tiger) after his father died and not written by Chuck himself.

He also said they are purposely made up of some disinformation and falsehoods.

This was done for obvious reasons. Some of it's good and some of it's bad. Tiger has the rest of the good information and isn't about to write another book. I know because I asked him. He has the rest of the signs and symbols his father found with the help of the "Duke" (John Wayne).

His next book would have been about the Stone Mapping Systems.
(Not the Stone Maps we talk about on here.)

So if it's true then their may be no Jesuit Treasures at all. Only the Kings of Spain and ordinary Spaniards Mines.

We have all been duped!

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Post by djui5 »

Any Mason signs here?

Image
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Duped Again.....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Bill,

"He informed me that the books were written by him (Tiger) after his father died and not written by Chuck himself."

Don't know how to break this to you, but Chuck Kenworthy died on
Sept. 10, 1998. You might want to take a look at some of the publish dates on his books. 8O

Looks like someone has been "duped" all right, and you get one guess as to who that might be. :lol:

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Post by Mike McChesney »

Oh, and I just noticed that my previous post said the speech was given in 1871. It was 1971, sorry.

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Post by djui5 »

Mike McChesney wrote:Oh, and I just noticed that my previous post said the speech was given in 1871. It was 1971, sorry.

Mike

I thought about calling you out on that, making a big deal, but opted to post a funny picture instead...

:lol: :lol:
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The Point....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Bill,

It seems to me, that the point of this topic is to bolster the idea that the Jesuits were involved in the creation of the Stone Maps. All the peripheral
theories that are being presented add little to the original supposition.

The long quotes that have been copied here, are an interesting historical read, but seem far afield from the core thesis of Jesuit Treasure.

In other words.....I don't see the connection.

Just my opinion, so I could be wrong.

Mike,

"The origin of the Heart as a marker that means gold was taken from Cortez' 1519 first visit to Tenotchtitlan.

When they were talking, Moctezuma asked Cortez what was this Spanish preoccupation with gold? Cortez replied that the Spanish had a disease of the heart, that only gold could cure."

Bernal Diaz does not mention this conversation, that I recall. Is there a historical source for it? What is the source for "the Heart as a marker that means gold....?

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Post by djui5 »

Well I can connect the Jesuits to Tumacacori, to them being Mexicans, to Father Kino of course, to the late 1700's, to the Pima's, but to the stone maps...well...

Connecting anyone to the creation of the stone maps is going to require some serious work. More than just someone's "ideas", or "masonic symbols".
Randy Wright
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Joe Ribaudo
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Historical Quote

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mike,

The "disease of the heart" quote, which is widely attributed to have been said directly to Montezuma, was actually from a conversation with the Aztec noble, Teuhtlile.

I believe the first English language source for this information was:
History of the Conquest of Mexico by, William H. Prescott in 1891.

Joe Ribaudo
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