Jesuits in the Superstitions?
Jesuits in the Superstitions?
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Last edited by Jan on Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ILoveJoeRibaudo
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You are mean!
Please don't be mean to Joe, Jan. He is the forums best poster by far ! He is smart, knowledgeable and good. SO many people hate him. I don't know why. I like him.
ILoveJoeRibaudo
Be nice to Joe. He trys hard to be good !
ILoveJoeRibaudo
Be nice to Joe. He trys hard to be good !
Excellent post, Jan!
I haven't pursued the stone maps much, but I can't help but notice that everyone who really looks into the subject comes away a believer. The naysayers seem to be in the same camp as those who say the LDM doesn't exist - that is, they haven't really looked into it.
I don't have any information to contribute to this thread at this time, but I'm all ears (eyes?) to see what comes next.
Thanks for starting a good thread.
I haven't pursued the stone maps much, but I can't help but notice that everyone who really looks into the subject comes away a believer. The naysayers seem to be in the same camp as those who say the LDM doesn't exist - that is, they haven't really looked into it.
I don't have any information to contribute to this thread at this time, but I'm all ears (eyes?) to see what comes next.
Thanks for starting a good thread.
Jesuits involved in Mining operations? Nah! They say.
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Last edited by Jan on Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dutch elm disease
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As the Graffiti strikes a new thread
Joe,
I guess it was just my way of uninviting you from trashing another serious thread.
Jan
I guess it was just my way of uninviting you from trashing another serious thread.
Jan
Last edited by Jan on Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Clean-Up
Jan,
You have addressed me a few times here, in the best way you can, so I will give a short response.
First of all, you are a LIAR. To prove me wrong you simply need to drag my words, where I insult the three people you mentioned, to your next reply.
Secondly, it is true that you are not Peter. What you don't realize, is that it is obvious who you are, especially to Peter. You are only hiding from yourself. That would be reddison/ward/Jan/Lone Wolfe.......etc. I am sure I left out many others, including at least one of my fan club IDs.
You do not know the meaning of the word "graffiti". That seems obvious from your posts.
You are the one who is dragging this forum down. The reason you can't see that, is because as a habitual liar, you even lie to yourself.
Joe Ribaudo
You have addressed me a few times here, in the best way you can, so I will give a short response.
First of all, you are a LIAR. To prove me wrong you simply need to drag my words, where I insult the three people you mentioned, to your next reply.
Secondly, it is true that you are not Peter. What you don't realize, is that it is obvious who you are, especially to Peter. You are only hiding from yourself. That would be reddison/ward/Jan/Lone Wolfe.......etc. I am sure I left out many others, including at least one of my fan club IDs.
You do not know the meaning of the word "graffiti". That seems obvious from your posts.
You are the one who is dragging this forum down. The reason you can't see that, is because as a habitual liar, you even lie to yourself.
Joe Ribaudo
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dutch elm disease
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jan,
as far as crap goes, you at present are the most obvious example on this forum at the moment.....not to say there arent 10r 2 two others.....you , your aliases and "partners in crime " are the shit that infest this forum right now.as for being "uninvited" i take that as a compliment coming from such as you. ill make you the same offer as i did peter....show your evidence to the forum showing how you "know" bill ded and joe are the same...if (like peter) you cant then its obvious to all that you are a malicious liar( same as the forementioned).
as far as crap goes, you at present are the most obvious example on this forum at the moment.....not to say there arent 10r 2 two others.....you , your aliases and "partners in crime " are the shit that infest this forum right now.as for being "uninvited" i take that as a compliment coming from such as you. ill make you the same offer as i did peter....show your evidence to the forum showing how you "know" bill ded and joe are the same...if (like peter) you cant then its obvious to all that you are a malicious liar( same as the forementioned).
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WyattWestwood
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Jan,
Excellent post. Dont mind poor Joe, he's just angry you know more about the Society of Jesus than he does. I am not a big Jesuit/Stone Map fan,
but you make some compelling points. Still dont think the Stone Maps will lead anyone to the Waltz/Deering mines, but Jesuit treasure is another story entirely.
Well done.
P
Excellent post. Dont mind poor Joe, he's just angry you know more about the Society of Jesus than he does. I am not a big Jesuit/Stone Map fan,
but you make some compelling points. Still dont think the Stone Maps will lead anyone to the Waltz/Deering mines, but Jesuit treasure is another story entirely.
Well done.
P
WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan,
Very nice! Beats anything I’ve ever seen in support of the argument that the Jesuits were involved in mining and that they did make it as far north as the Superstitions!
I have read your post several times and will probably read it several more before I absorb it all. Where did you find those books, are they available at a library? I would love to read them.
Ignore the Joe and his self formed fan club. You have done a great job with your research .
Keep up the good work, I look forward to your future posts.
redison
Very nice! Beats anything I’ve ever seen in support of the argument that the Jesuits were involved in mining and that they did make it as far north as the Superstitions!
I have read your post several times and will probably read it several more before I absorb it all. Where did you find those books, are they available at a library? I would love to read them.
Ignore the Joe and his self formed fan club. You have done a great job with your research .
Keep up the good work, I look forward to your future posts.
redison
Source Material
Thank You Redison,
The Mowery book can be read online at the University of Michigan's Website. The link is below. I am still looking for where I downloaded the others.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/tex ... 1.0001.001
Jan
Title: Arizona and Sonora: the geography, history, and resources of the silver region of North America.
Author: Mowry, Sylvester.
Print Source: Arizona and Sonora: the geography, history, and resources of the silver region of North America.
Mowry, Sylvester.
3d ed., rev. and enl.: p. cm.
New York,
Harper & brothers, c 1864.
URL: http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/tex ... 1.0001.001
The Mowery book can be read online at the University of Michigan's Website. The link is below. I am still looking for where I downloaded the others.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/tex ... 1.0001.001
Jan
Title: Arizona and Sonora: the geography, history, and resources of the silver region of North America.
Author: Mowry, Sylvester.
Print Source: Arizona and Sonora: the geography, history, and resources of the silver region of North America.
Mowry, Sylvester.
3d ed., rev. and enl.: p. cm.
New York,
Harper & brothers, c 1864.
URL: http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/tex ... 1.0001.001
For those of you interested in such things, the Mowry Mines were targeted by Apache in the mid 1860s. It is said that Cochise himself lead a raid on the Mowry Mines in February of 1867 in the hopes of capturing rifles and ammunition. The raid was thwarted by the arrival of a fellow named Oscar Hutton. Hutton made his presence known and then high-tailed it out of there, chased by the Chiricahua. Once he escaped Cochise broke off the fight, knowing that Hutton would be bringing back the Siladah...the Soldiers.
This is the same Oscar Hutton that lead a detachment of the 1st AZ Vol Cavalry a year before that campaigned in and near the Superstitions ...two of his troopers names were Joseph Green and one William Edwards.....
P
This is the same Oscar Hutton that lead a detachment of the 1st AZ Vol Cavalry a year before that campaigned in and near the Superstitions ...two of his troopers names were Joseph Green and one William Edwards.....
P
Excellent Post
Jan,
What a great post!
I find it amazing that Mowry was able to publish a book in the 1864 timeframe considering what was going on with his mine at the time.
Mr. Mowry also was the owner of a map which supposedly originated with Father Kino (Ref. History of Arizona).
Was the Patagonia Mine discovered based on this map which was of Jesuit origin?
The web of key Superstition players in the 1860-1880 time frame must provide clues for us today. Hutton, Green, Edwards, Waltz, Mowry and, as Peter pointed out, Cochise.
What a great post!
I find it amazing that Mowry was able to publish a book in the 1864 timeframe considering what was going on with his mine at the time.
Mr. Mowry also was the owner of a map which supposedly originated with Father Kino (Ref. History of Arizona).
Was the Patagonia Mine discovered based on this map which was of Jesuit origin?
The web of key Superstition players in the 1860-1880 time frame must provide clues for us today. Hutton, Green, Edwards, Waltz, Mowry and, as Peter pointed out, Cochise.
For those interested....
The white man has a notion that Amerindian names often denote the person as a fierce warrior, gifted shaman etc....This is true in some cases such as the true meaning of Geronimos Apache name (Goyathlay). But in most cases their names come from some event earlier in life, case in point: Cochise. What does the great warriors name really mean?
Firewood.
The Apache word for firewood is "chizh". The "Co" may have been added because the Apache word for fire is "ko" (nazalize that "o" on "ko"). So we have "ko-chizh". Cochise. As a boy Cochise loved to collect firewood for the camp..hence the moniker.
P
The white man has a notion that Amerindian names often denote the person as a fierce warrior, gifted shaman etc....This is true in some cases such as the true meaning of Geronimos Apache name (Goyathlay). But in most cases their names come from some event earlier in life, case in point: Cochise. What does the great warriors name really mean?
Firewood.
The Apache word for firewood is "chizh". The "Co" may have been added because the Apache word for fire is "ko" (nazalize that "o" on "ko"). So we have "ko-chizh". Cochise. As a boy Cochise loved to collect firewood for the camp..hence the moniker.
P
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Joe Ribaudo
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You Think I don't Know Jesuit History?
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject: Toothsome Topic!
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I thought the "First Amendment" topic was getting a little stale (no pun intended) and decided to take a peek at where the LDM Forum was making such a long stand.
It is good to see that Peter has gotten settled into his new state, and has finally turned his mind to all things Dutchman.
While "Spam" seems to be a topic we can all sink our mental teeth into, it seems to have strayed a bit from the topic, which I believe was "Pigs in the Mountains", or something like that. I could be wrong there, since Spam is made with pork, but I don't think Peter had peccary-like animals in mind as the general thrust of his topic.
No doubt Peter will jump in here and straighten out any confusion. There could be an arguement made that "Spam" is relevant and not off topic at all. It will be interesting to see if he can get to the root of this (possible)
dilemma.
With a slight amount of manipulation, Kino glasses and the correct time and angle of the sun, "Spam" could become Sp. Am.
Now some of you may scoff at this theory, but the early Jesuits used just such "codes" in all of the maps they made while hiding their loot from the King of Spain, which, by coincidence, is very close to "SPAM". Using the King's Code Book (which they all had) they followed his rules religiously.
I believe, even the dullest of you, can see the obvious connection that follows: "Spam" = Sp. Am. which means Spanish American, which could be construed as JESUIT! It just don't get any better than that.
OK! How can we use this in the field? I knew you would ask.
Lets say you are walking along a trail in the Superstitions, and kick-up a rusted old "Spam" can. You could just say: Damn those "Pigs"!, or if you are a legendary treasure hunter, you might immediately say JESUIT!
You are now on the trail to TREASURE and I mean that with a capital "T",
my friends. I know, I may be presuming a bit much there.
Considering the long legs of "Spam", what with no one eating it, and thus a great deal of the stuff must be laying about the landscape, you must remember that repetition is the "hallmark" sign of authentic JESUIT treasure maps, or if you prefer, "Spam"/Sp. Am./Spanish American.
We are now getting to the meat of the subject, so to speak.
I would continue, but I have forgotten where I was going with all of this.
Sorry......
Respectfully,
Joe Hidloh
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"Jan,
Excellent post. Dont mind poor Joe, he's just angry you know more about the Society of Jesus than he does."
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I don't know how anyone could think such a thing after I had established my "Jesuit" credentials with the above post.
Joe Ribaudo
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I thought the "First Amendment" topic was getting a little stale (no pun intended) and decided to take a peek at where the LDM Forum was making such a long stand.
It is good to see that Peter has gotten settled into his new state, and has finally turned his mind to all things Dutchman.
While "Spam" seems to be a topic we can all sink our mental teeth into, it seems to have strayed a bit from the topic, which I believe was "Pigs in the Mountains", or something like that. I could be wrong there, since Spam is made with pork, but I don't think Peter had peccary-like animals in mind as the general thrust of his topic.
No doubt Peter will jump in here and straighten out any confusion. There could be an arguement made that "Spam" is relevant and not off topic at all. It will be interesting to see if he can get to the root of this (possible)
dilemma.
With a slight amount of manipulation, Kino glasses and the correct time and angle of the sun, "Spam" could become Sp. Am.
Now some of you may scoff at this theory, but the early Jesuits used just such "codes" in all of the maps they made while hiding their loot from the King of Spain, which, by coincidence, is very close to "SPAM". Using the King's Code Book (which they all had) they followed his rules religiously.
I believe, even the dullest of you, can see the obvious connection that follows: "Spam" = Sp. Am. which means Spanish American, which could be construed as JESUIT! It just don't get any better than that.
OK! How can we use this in the field? I knew you would ask.
Lets say you are walking along a trail in the Superstitions, and kick-up a rusted old "Spam" can. You could just say: Damn those "Pigs"!, or if you are a legendary treasure hunter, you might immediately say JESUIT!
You are now on the trail to TREASURE and I mean that with a capital "T",
my friends. I know, I may be presuming a bit much there.
Considering the long legs of "Spam", what with no one eating it, and thus a great deal of the stuff must be laying about the landscape, you must remember that repetition is the "hallmark" sign of authentic JESUIT treasure maps, or if you prefer, "Spam"/Sp. Am./Spanish American.
We are now getting to the meat of the subject, so to speak.
I would continue, but I have forgotten where I was going with all of this.
Sorry......
Respectfully,
Joe Hidloh
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"Jan,
Excellent post. Dont mind poor Joe, he's just angry you know more about the Society of Jesus than he does."
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I don't know how anyone could think such a thing after I had established my "Jesuit" credentials with the above post.
Joe Ribaudo
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ILoveJoeRibaudo
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Awesome !
Great great post , Joe. Just awesome ! I am not quite sure what you are talking about, but as you know, all your posts are a joy to read. Thank you. You really taught him a lesson in that one ! You showed him who's boss ! Hip hip hooray !
ILoveJoeRibaudo
ILoveJoeRibaudo
J,s in the sup,s?
Jan; A good interesting piece BUT it would have been better if you had left Joe out of it! Bill 
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Joe Ribaudo
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Seems Clear Enough To Me
ILJR,
"I am not quite sure what you are talking about...."
Really......Whoda thunk it?
Joe Ribaudo
"I am not quite sure what you are talking about...."
Really......Whoda thunk it?
Joe Ribaudo
J,s in the Sup,s
WELL JAN; YOU are backed up by the GREAT-ONE www. I envy you for your supporters. Bill
Bill A ltittle house cleaning
In response to a personal request I have edited all of my posts that contained argumentative remarks.
Now that I know that this is NOT an OPEN forum where you can say what you believe is true any more. This will be my last post on this website.
redison
Now that I know that this is NOT an OPEN forum where you can say what you believe is true any more. This will be my last post on this website.
redison
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dutch elm disease
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Just ignore them
redison,
It sounds like you received the same email that I did. No need to get your shorts all in a bind over it. It was only a request. Nobody insisted that you had to do anything. If you considered the request to be unreasonable, you could have just ignored it. I suspect that like myself you found the request to be reasonable and appropriate under the circumstances. Otherwise you would have ignored it. You did the right thing, how can that be so hard to live with?
Now toss your marbles back in the circle and sit back down here with the rest of us. You have much to offer to the forum, as you have known a lot of people that some of us have only read stories about. There is a lot more to the legends of the Superstitions than just the hunt for the gold. Tell us some more of your first hand stories and just ignore the comments from the less experienced and jealous members of this forum.
Jan
It sounds like you received the same email that I did. No need to get your shorts all in a bind over it. It was only a request. Nobody insisted that you had to do anything. If you considered the request to be unreasonable, you could have just ignored it. I suspect that like myself you found the request to be reasonable and appropriate under the circumstances. Otherwise you would have ignored it. You did the right thing, how can that be so hard to live with?
Now toss your marbles back in the circle and sit back down here with the rest of us. You have much to offer to the forum, as you have known a lot of people that some of us have only read stories about. There is a lot more to the legends of the Superstitions than just the hunt for the gold. Tell us some more of your first hand stories and just ignore the comments from the less experienced and jealous members of this forum.
Jan
"Now toss your marbles back in the circle and sit back down here with the rest of us."
What a neat attitude! Now let's accomplish something. What do you
think the Jesuits left behind? The possibiliities would include a
played out mine, a productive mine, a treasure from somewhere
else. Maybe something I haven't thought about.
We expect to get the electronics together to look for a closed
off tunnel. When this website settles down a bit we will post an update
about Team Fever.
We prefer to not spend the six thousand dollars or so for a magnetometer.
We would spend a percentage of that for the use of one. Anybody
have one of the Accurate Locater magnetometers? Can anyone show
us that it can show a void in the earth thirty feet below the surface.?
Harry
What a neat attitude! Now let's accomplish something. What do you
think the Jesuits left behind? The possibiliities would include a
played out mine, a productive mine, a treasure from somewhere
else. Maybe something I haven't thought about.
We expect to get the electronics together to look for a closed
off tunnel. When this website settles down a bit we will post an update
about Team Fever.
We prefer to not spend the six thousand dollars or so for a magnetometer.
We would spend a percentage of that for the use of one. Anybody
have one of the Accurate Locater magnetometers? Can anyone show
us that it can show a void in the earth thirty feet below the surface.?
Harry
J,s in the Sp,s
RG; You might ask Bob Corbit about his try. I think he and some others just tried something like that! Bill