Mine Deity

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:57 pm

I have posted a few new pictures at the Members Archive, including two photos of a small mine deity I recently found near an old Spanish dig.
I haven't been able to learn much about him, as there's not much to be found on the net related to the subject. He looks Spanish from the front, but he looks like Christ from the right side. He has a serpant on his head looking to his left.
I'm hoping one of you might recognize him from a milk carton or what not.
He needs a proper name. If any of you have any info about this little guy, please let me know.
Now...
It's someone else's turn to show and tell!

Laz

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:58 pm

You found that at a dig in the Superstitions? No matter: THAT is the darndest thing I've seen on this site! Does it definitely look old, that is, it's not some weird thing someone bought at a novelty store and then lost out there? What's it made of, do you think?
I have a couple of neat pictures I'd like to post, but I don't have the technology to do it. But my pics are open to interpretation, like most of them here, and could well be just natural formations. Yours doesn't leave any room for doubt that it's man made.

Nice post, Laz! Thanks.

azdave35 · Post by **azdave35** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:35 pm

that is definatly a bad little dude .......you should take him over to ASU and find out how old and what he is

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:49 pm

All good questions.
I suppose some clever cad could have carried him out there and left him for one of us to someday find, but under the circumstance, I doubt it. He is made of stone, and he appears to be real.
I agree that he is one bad little dude. I also agree that he needs to be examined by someone at ASU. Thanks for checking out my pictures.

Laz

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:36 pm

But beware! In the movies, when people find something like that, something supernatural and unpleasant ends up happening. Like a mummy coming after you or something.

bill711 · Post by **bill711** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 pm

Laz. That,s a real good find, It is made like a cross between an aztec and a christian god. I thought it was carved from wood. I,m thinking aztexian. Bill

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:14 am

Wiz,
I know what you mean...I hate when that happens! Mummies...ick!
Bill,
my experts tell me he is too old to be Mexican, but so far no-one has been able to identify his origin. He looks Spanish to me, but what do I know? Aztec? Mayan?
To me, he looks alot like the drawings of the little miners in the De Re Metallica, (a book about Spanish mining). This would almost make sense, if he wasn't wearing a snake on his head.

Aurum · Post by **Aurum** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:25 am

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:18 am

Good to see you back, Aurum. You've been missed.

The ruler of the underworld! I'll bet there's a mummy in all this somewhere!
Seriously, that's a heck of a find. Of course, since you obviously didn't find it anywhere in the Superstition Wilderness, you would be perfectly safe taking it in to be analyzed or dated by some authority.

Laz, at this point I'd say you're the champ for having found (and proven that you've found) the most outstanding thing shown so far on this site.

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:26 pm

Aurum,
thank you for the information. This little guy really appears to have been carved out of solid stone. He weighs 117 grams...just a little over a quarter of a pound. The dirt brings out the detail.

Wiz,
no mummies yet.

Laz

bill711 · Post by **bill711** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:28 pm

Laz. The snake on it,s head is what is the fooler?? The mexican,s usually worked or carved in the wood. Not much stone.. The old indian used the stone carving alot. The snake places him very old I think Aztec or older. The only way a modern or spanish worker would have a snake on it was if it was to guard him from snakes in the mine?? Lazarus look and think the placement of the object over was it really placed there in relation to the mine or ??? Could the old mine actually predate the spanish?? was it an old indian mine before the spanish came??? The old indians of mexico would make these object,s out of clay and then put them in their gardens or whatever to give them a goods harvest and protect them from eveil..They would have a personal saint they kept on selves to pray to. I have some pieces of clay made deity,s to help them in their harvest. When they made these they would never keep them they would bury or hide them in relation to what they had dedicated the piece to... These are some real good finds Laz. YOU should be real proud of them... Wish you welll Bill

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:06 pm

Lazarus,

That's a nice piece.

The snake's shape looks Mayan. The features look Spanish in origin.
I doubt it is an underworld diety of ancient Mesoamerican design, not grotesque enough.

If you would like some expert opinion, I have several sources who are well known (famous) in this field. I will only send them the picture with your permission.

Respectfully,

Joe

bill711 · Post by **bill711** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:37 pm

Laz; Are you sure that a reptoid or two didn,t come up out of the ground at you ?? Maybe you were looking the other way and just didn,t see them??? Bill

P · Post by P » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:16 pm

>>Laz, at this point I'd say you're the champ for having found (and proven that you've found) the most outstanding thing shown so far on this site.<<

I agree with Wiz on this one. I vote that we bestow the title "Legendary and Famous" upon Lazarus...until someone else does something even more "Legendary and Famouser"

P

bill711 · Post by **bill711** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:14 pm

YEP Lazarus; Unless someone comes up with something quick You will be the LAST MAN STANDING....Bill

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:51 am

Laz,
Any progress on analyzing the deity?
(Has the mummy shown up yet?)

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:20 am

Wiz,
no mummies yet, but I am still not discounting the possibility.
As for the little guy, I've made some calls, but so far no one has called me back.
I'll be sure to keep you updated.

Laz

bill711 · Post by **bill711** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:42 am

Lazarus;I beleive the little man is indian made because Mexi,s could carve wood real good, BUT the indi,s were the ones who could carve the stone plus the snake. I,m beleiving inca.. Bill Of course there is all ways the chance that some one picked it up at one place and dropped it some where else you always have that...

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:55 pm

Laz,

I have sent your picture to four experts that have helped me in the past.
I believe they will know at a glance what your carving is supposed to be.
It is doubtful that they will venture a guess as to it's authenicity without seeing it in person.

There are a few factors which might stop them from replying. Propably the major one would be that they are out of the country on a dig. Even if they are, they usually look in on their emails. Two others would be, that it is an obvious fake that they would not want to be involved with, and a concern as to how you came by it.

My own amateur opinion is that it is not (ancient) Mesoamerican nor Peruvian as Bill has suggested. The snake looks Mayan while the features of the face look Spanish in origin.

I hope to hear back from them soon.

Respectfully,

Joe

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:09 pm

Joe,
thank you for your assistance. As of this evening, I have yet to hear back from anyone, although I am in no hurry. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to draw any final conclusions based on a photo. I agree with you entirely about the Spanish features with the Mayan snake, but I'm not an expert by any means. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks again,
Laz

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:18 pm

Lazarus,

There is a problem with the snake. Although I have seen the snakes head
on Mayan drawings, You have given us, what appears to be the snakes body. If the Maya were carving a snake, it's skin would be immediately recognizable as a specific member of the rattlesnake family. While that might not always hold true, I believe it would in most cases, and particularly in this one. No need to bore anyone, but if asked, I will send a private message concerning said snake.

Respectfully,

Joe

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:08 am

Joe,
I don't really see a snake body, so to speak. The head itself is shaped like a cobra, not a rattlesnake. The snake does not look like anything I have ever seen in the Arizona desert. If you have comments you can add concerning the snake, please do so.

Thanks again,

Laz

bill711 · Post by **bill711** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:45 am

Lazarus; The snake bady is the frame to out line the face....Bill

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:10 am

Bill,
I believe the right side of his head may be wrapped by the snake's body, but there is not much detail. With all due respect to Joe, I am certain it wasn't intended to be a rattlesnake. I think if it were a rattlesnake, it would be coiled up on top of his head. Once again, I'm only guessing.

I have the greatest respect for Joe and his opinions. Joe has always been known for his conflicting observations and conclusions. I welcome his observations, and I believe he is a real bonus to the regular serious readers on this forum. I think it would be irresponsible to simply assume the little guy is authentic until we have confirmation from an expert. Until then, who knows? I'll keep you posted.

Laz

bill711 · Post by **bill711** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:34 am

LAZ; I have to agree with Joe it,s head does look like the cobra, I was looking at the little cut marks that start near the head and seem to circle the face or frame most of it.. I agree it doen,t look like a rattler....I think of the egeptian snake the rular has on his turban...Bill

Lost Dutchman Goldmine

Mine Deity

Mine Deity

bad little dude

Deity

deity

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mine deity, possible explanation.

Deity

Lazarus

What It Be?

Deity

Deity

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deity

Searching in all the right places

Searching in all the right places

Snake Skin

Snake skin

deity

Snake

deity