Magill mine
Magill mine
I am a bit curious in the fact that I never have seen any photograhic evidence of the Magill mine and tunnel. Supposedly the tunnel was unable to be photographed and what I have seen of the mine could be anyplace outside the Superstitions. Has anyone located those diggings to verify that claim or is there the possibility that it was a hoax. The only independent corroboration I have heard of is the radio broadcast done at the time. All in all I have always felt it was a good book , but not necessarily an accurate picture of real circumstances.
Magill
I have seen a picture of Bob Corbin at Magill's pit - a photo of him being interviewed by George Scott for a radio broadcast. (This might be in Glover's book... But, I am not sure...) I think Scoot interviewed many people during that time frame at the "pit."
I agree - there was little photo evidence. I think many have tried to find the pit and tunnel in question. Because the pit was supposedly buried, this would be hard to do. People have also looked and looked for the tunnel, all to no avail.
What is curious - and this has been brought up before - is that Magill admits that Barry Storm's and Sims Ely's books were major references for him. I forget the page now, but in Storm's "Thunder Gods Gold" there is a photo of Bluff Springs Mountain with a big arrow pointing to what Storm called the newly opened Peralta mine. It was a "mine" or prospect that Storm and his entourage thought could have been a Peralta working. Nothing became of it - it was probably played out. However, it is EXACTLY in the same spot Magil claim to have found HIS "mine." So, is it coincidence?
I do not know how much of the errors in "The Killer Mountains" was from Curt Gentry or Glen Magill. Remember - we think of "The Killer Mountains" as Magill's "book." But, Curt Gentry wrote it. I always wondered about the interpretation of the "Profile Map" considering the terrain hardly leads one to accept it. Also, the reference to a cave with a house being on Black Top???? That was casually thrown out with no back-up or follow up. To my knowledge, there is no such thing. So... who's to say where those originated. Magill? Or Gentry?
Another item to be found is the trail up the east side of Bluff Springs Magill was to have taken to get to the top. Many have tried to find that and it appears to be a mystery. It could be "washed out" now. Or simply never existed. I bet Magill used what we call the Ely-Anderson Trail that starts at the southeast corner of Bluff Springs and heads up in a northwestly direction. Fellow "registered member" to this forum - fritzski - has hiked that area extensively - see the "Hike Arizona" web site for more about hikes in the Superstition Wilderness, and in particular fritzski's hike up the Ely-Anderson Trail.
So, anyway, who's to say at any particular time what one persons motives may have been.
I agree - there was little photo evidence. I think many have tried to find the pit and tunnel in question. Because the pit was supposedly buried, this would be hard to do. People have also looked and looked for the tunnel, all to no avail.
What is curious - and this has been brought up before - is that Magill admits that Barry Storm's and Sims Ely's books were major references for him. I forget the page now, but in Storm's "Thunder Gods Gold" there is a photo of Bluff Springs Mountain with a big arrow pointing to what Storm called the newly opened Peralta mine. It was a "mine" or prospect that Storm and his entourage thought could have been a Peralta working. Nothing became of it - it was probably played out. However, it is EXACTLY in the same spot Magil claim to have found HIS "mine." So, is it coincidence?
I do not know how much of the errors in "The Killer Mountains" was from Curt Gentry or Glen Magill. Remember - we think of "The Killer Mountains" as Magill's "book." But, Curt Gentry wrote it. I always wondered about the interpretation of the "Profile Map" considering the terrain hardly leads one to accept it. Also, the reference to a cave with a house being on Black Top???? That was casually thrown out with no back-up or follow up. To my knowledge, there is no such thing. So... who's to say where those originated. Magill? Or Gentry?
Another item to be found is the trail up the east side of Bluff Springs Magill was to have taken to get to the top. Many have tried to find that and it appears to be a mystery. It could be "washed out" now. Or simply never existed. I bet Magill used what we call the Ely-Anderson Trail that starts at the southeast corner of Bluff Springs and heads up in a northwestly direction. Fellow "registered member" to this forum - fritzski - has hiked that area extensively - see the "Hike Arizona" web site for more about hikes in the Superstition Wilderness, and in particular fritzski's hike up the Ely-Anderson Trail.
So, anyway, who's to say at any particular time what one persons motives may have been.
Actually, I believe Magill said some unknown parties blew up a rock shelf
above the place of the supposed mine site and covered it up completely...this after Magill and his partners abandoned the area after they decided that the shaft was played out.
To my knowledge, no one has found the tunnel or the lookout posts on either side of the tunnel area..and I know some have gone looking.
From other parts of the story that I find suspect (the entire Apache episode for instance) I wonder how much of the book was "dramatized"
in order to sell copies.
Literary "dramatization" of the LDM story seems to go part and parcel with the Dutchman story. And I am not just talking about Storm, Arnold and Barnard. Even some supposedly factual books like Conatser's of Corbin's
play up the "curse", "Indian" or "dramatic" angle in order to tell a better story. And the truth is, one doesnt have to as the real story is just as interesting as any of the dramatic stuff.
So far, the only books that went in for more fact than fiction to date is Tom Glover's books. To his credit, he kept things low key and factual as well as he was able and didnt seem to club the reader over the head with phantoms, dangers or Apache curse mularkey
above the place of the supposed mine site and covered it up completely...this after Magill and his partners abandoned the area after they decided that the shaft was played out.
To my knowledge, no one has found the tunnel or the lookout posts on either side of the tunnel area..and I know some have gone looking.
From other parts of the story that I find suspect (the entire Apache episode for instance) I wonder how much of the book was "dramatized"
in order to sell copies.
Literary "dramatization" of the LDM story seems to go part and parcel with the Dutchman story. And I am not just talking about Storm, Arnold and Barnard. Even some supposedly factual books like Conatser's of Corbin's
play up the "curse", "Indian" or "dramatic" angle in order to tell a better story. And the truth is, one doesnt have to as the real story is just as interesting as any of the dramatic stuff.
So far, the only books that went in for more fact than fiction to date is Tom Glover's books. To his credit, he kept things low key and factual as well as he was able and didnt seem to club the reader over the head with phantoms, dangers or Apache curse mularkey
Magill
Without doubt, Magill's story (by Gentry) and other such books often play up the dangers of the mountains. There are some dangers - but not as depicted in most books. Peter is right. There are others besides Arnold, Barnard, and Storm that "exaggerate" the "dangers." Glover's book is well balanced in that regard - as well as displaying good taste and common decency when presenting information. Some things must go unsaid - and if things do need to be brought up, then sometimes they have to be guarded and presented vaguely. Glover makes this clear in his story of Monty Edwards letting the Cave of the Bornze Cross story "slip." There are places in the mountains that just don't need to be discussed. Nor have their locations revealed. This is necessary so as not to break a trust - or at the very least not to give the Forest "Service" a new opportunity to destroy something. Glover used the Cave of the Bronze Cross anecdote as example of this. I hate to admit it, but wiz is probably right. The Forest "Service" could have covered things up. If they did that to Magill's prospect - even after being blasted - to finish the job, then think of other things they'd like to get their hands on.
It makes me shudder...
It makes me shudder...
"Another item to be found is the trail up the east side of Bluff Springs Magill was to have taken to get to the top. Many have tried to find that and it appears to be a mystery. It could be "washed out" now. Or simply never existed. I bet Magill used what we call the Ely-Anderson Trail that starts at the southeast corner of Bluff Springs and heads up in a northwestly direction."
I have taken an old trail on the northeast corner of Bluff Springs several times. In fact, it is part of a good loop over the top of the mountain. You go up the old trail on the southwest corner of the mountain (just before the Dutchman/Bluff Spring intersection). When you get to the top you take the small drainage down to the big center canyon and follow that north. Just as you are getting to the north end of the mountain the canyon turns west. If you veer east and down that drainage you will be following an old trail down the northeast corner of the mountain. As you get close to the bottom there are all sorts of side trails. These meandering side trails make it more difficult to find the trail from the bottom.
I don't know if this was the Magill route but it is definitely a known way.
I have taken an old trail on the northeast corner of Bluff Springs several times. In fact, it is part of a good loop over the top of the mountain. You go up the old trail on the southwest corner of the mountain (just before the Dutchman/Bluff Spring intersection). When you get to the top you take the small drainage down to the big center canyon and follow that north. Just as you are getting to the north end of the mountain the canyon turns west. If you veer east and down that drainage you will be following an old trail down the northeast corner of the mountain. As you get close to the bottom there are all sorts of side trails. These meandering side trails make it more difficult to find the trail from the bottom.
I don't know if this was the Magill route but it is definitely a known way.
Bluff Springs Mtn. Trail
I wonder if the trail walker12 describes is the old "Spanish" trail described by Bark. Supposedly it came up over Superstition Mountain. Then Bark lost it but found another trail on Bluff Springs Mountain that led down to Marsh Valley.
No telling what trail that Magill described. It could be anything discussed so far.
No telling what trail that Magill described. It could be anything discussed so far.
From talking to Jack Carlson, he's told me that there is basically nothing left at the Magill site worth seeing - all covered over. For those interested, he gave me the GPS coordinates and if you email me I may be able to dig them up (no pun intended:).
The route walker12 describes and the Ely-And Tr. are two of very few routes ever described to access the mountain top. Another would be to go up through the break in the west face adjacent to Weavers Needle. This is the route I took down following Carlson's advice and is possibly the closest access to Magill's site. It is described in detail in my "Ely-Anderson Trail" description on HikeArizona.COM.
The route walker12 describes and the Ely-And Tr. are two of very few routes ever described to access the mountain top. Another would be to go up through the break in the west face adjacent to Weavers Needle. This is the route I took down following Carlson's advice and is possibly the closest access to Magill's site. It is described in detail in my "Ely-Anderson Trail" description on HikeArizona.COM.
Magill mine
Hello,
Just got back from vacation. Going back to what S.C. stated about nothing being left at Magill's site, because of what the Forest Service had done is true. Not only that but they hauled off and covered over anything up there that Al Reiser had done. Some may know of him. He had spent 40 years or more and in his late 80's could still outhike most. He died recently, and any sign of him being there is gone. It amazes me , that in my travel I visited the Custer Battlefield and other such historic places, and the whole mindset in these places , by the managing government agencies is to preserve history , not to destroy it. What seems to be the problem with the Forest Service , when it comes to the Dutchman? Sure it's wilderness, but that does not cancel the history of the Superstitions , which is very rich. When Custer was slain in 1876, history and in fact probaly the Dutchman himself was active out in the Superstitions. What gives the government the right to choose which we keep alive?
Just got back from vacation. Going back to what S.C. stated about nothing being left at Magill's site, because of what the Forest Service had done is true. Not only that but they hauled off and covered over anything up there that Al Reiser had done. Some may know of him. He had spent 40 years or more and in his late 80's could still outhike most. He died recently, and any sign of him being there is gone. It amazes me , that in my travel I visited the Custer Battlefield and other such historic places, and the whole mindset in these places , by the managing government agencies is to preserve history , not to destroy it. What seems to be the problem with the Forest Service , when it comes to the Dutchman? Sure it's wilderness, but that does not cancel the history of the Superstitions , which is very rich. When Custer was slain in 1876, history and in fact probaly the Dutchman himself was active out in the Superstitions. What gives the government the right to choose which we keep alive?
Re: Magill mine
They don't have the right, Ron. They just do it anyway. What will we do, arrest the Forest Service?Ron wrote:What gives the government the right to choose which we keep alive?
I ACTUALLY ENJOYED THE BOOK, AS IT WAS PREFERABLY FACTUAL AND KEPT A LOT OF THE INNUENDOS AND FABRICATED STORIES TO A MINIMUM. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A COMPANION PIECE TO THE "CURSE", BUT IT IS MORE OF A REVISION WITH ADDITIONAL MATERIAL. I TOO EXPECTED SOMETHING MORE FROM BOB CORBIN ON HIS THOUGHTS PERTAINING TO MUCH OF THE INFO AS WELL AS TOM KOLLENBORN. IT IS SOMEWHAT HAPHAZARD AND WANDERS OFF SIDELINES OCCASIONALLY,BUT I ACTUALLY ENJOYED MUCH OF THE BACKGROUND INFO AND THE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVES. IT DOES SEEM TO PUT A LOT OF REFERENCE AT EASY ACCESS BUT STILL WORKS AS A COMPANION PIECE WITH THE PRIOR WORK.