LOST OR.....FOUND?

Cubfan64 · Post by **Cubfan64** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:41 pm

for a week gave me so much time each day just to think about the history of where I was and who else had been there.

I thought of "dutch hunter" names I've become familiar with as well as the current "dutch hunters" I've met and imagined them exploring the same areas or just passing through to their camps. I thought of the different native americans who lived out there raising their families and trying to survive and the soldiers who pursued them and drove them out. I thought of the nameless and faceless prospectors and pioneers who may have sat on the same stone I was leaning on to rest.

I enjoyed spending time just imagining what things were like out there - it was a good escape for me and a part of my mind that I hadn't "exercised" in a long time.

I want to go back to some of the threads I've seen here and elsewhere talking about those first LDM hunters. Where did they first start looking and why did they start there? In my mind, the actions of some of those first searchers should speak volumes about where Waltz pointed them - if indeed he ever pointed them at all.

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:22 pm

Your outlook and attitude are a great way to approach the land and the legends. I have often talked about feeling the ghosts around the campfire......sharing the moment. I hope you felt my own spirit beside you as you made those hikes.

My own methods have always been to go back to the earliest accounts, and work your way forward from there. Each year that passes only tends to obscure the truth further. Here is something I wrote some time ago:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe Ribaudo
Expert

Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 3741

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject: Whom to Believe?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

S.C.,

The only way for your "twisted or..... blended.....elements" scenario to work, would be to discount Jim Bark's account of his conversation with Rhiney Petrasch. Bark's notes seem clear enough, so he either lied about what Rhiney told him, Rhiney lied to him, or one or the other had dementia.

While anything is possible, I will stick to the story of the guy who was actually there when Waltz told the tale. There seems to be little reason for Rhiney to lie to Bark. Although it is possible he made up the story of what happened in Mexico, for the life of me, I can see no motive for such an elaborate fabrication.

As we move away from the story of the man who actually knew the Dutchman, in time and detail, your "twisted" and "blended" theory gets legs.

Julia Thomas and Rhinehart Petrasch were the only two people who had a real chance to find Waltz's mine by design. They are the ones who dealt with "the man". Everyone else has dealt with the "story". As you watch the current authors change one word of that story at a time (sometimes huge chunks of words), imagine what it would have been like to hear it directly from Julia and Rhiney.

I will take Bark's account of what they said, as the closest to "pristine" that you can get. That does not mean that important information has not been presented over the years, it just keeps it all in perspective. In Search and Rescue, when we loose a track, we always go back to the last real track the person left. Don't want to end up following someone else's tracks.

Just rambling here, so pay no mind. I like the thread. Glad to see some of the "old timers" returning.

Respectfully,

Joe

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was a very nice post you just wrote. Thanks for sharing your private thoughts and moments with us.

Take care,

Joe

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:22 am

Nope,

that is not it. Good luck... keep trying.

Laz

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 pm

The pit mine was know about for many years before it was worked out in the late 90's. Here is an article from the late 50's:

That makes two times this mine has been worked by people who believed it was the LDM, in modern times. Reckon both parties were working it for silver.......or copper?

Joe Ribaudo

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:45 pm

I believe the mine was worked in the fifties and the article was from a later time.

Joe Ribaudo

djui5 · Post by **djui5** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:33 pm

Joe,
Do you have a bigger version of that article? It's hard to read being so small and all. What paper is it from?

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:24 am

Randy,

I will email you the article. I won't be giving out any more infromation than what you can read. Anyone who wants a copy will be sent one.

Take care,

Joe

djui5 · Post by **djui5** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:15 pm

Thanks though, I found the original article:
True West Magazine Vol. 7, No.1, Whole number 35, October 1959. "The Lost Dutchman Pops Up Again" by Quention T.Cox.

Interesting author.

Cubfan64 · Post by **Cubfan64** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:38 am

Joe or Randy - would either of you mind sending me a scanned copy via e-mail when you have a chance?

thanks

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:44 am

Paul,

I don't have the original, and I don't believe Randy does either. Your request can best be filled by emailing it to Greg Davis.

Take care,

Joe

Cubfan64 · Post by **Cubfan64** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:00 am

k - thanks

AquaLung · Post by **AquaLung** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:43 am

Good day everyone ! ,
I stumbled across this thread from a link from another forum and find it quite fascinating !
Randy ,
That is the most I have seen you write ever , wow

I noticed that some of you are a bit un aware as to how gold is formed in veins , I'm a prospector and have been to a couple of years of school in geology , and with out getting all stuffy and long winded I thought I would put this up
http://earthsci.org/mineral/mindep/depfile/vei_dep.htm
Yours truly ,
AL

AquaLung · Post by **AquaLung** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:48 am

I did not notice an edit button , so I wanted to add a bit ,
The people that worked the pit , did so only in the summer I have read..
Now that would give me some sort of a clue as the only folks that I know that have all summer off would have to have some sort of a job with the school system , Hmmm.....................................
It looks like to me that they took someting out of there of some value as one must be a bit mental to work in the kind of heat we have around here , and I don't think they were doing it for practice

A L

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:35 am

AL,

excellent posting.

Laz

Cubfan64 · Post by **Cubfan64** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:37 am

Thanks for that link! Very good information for me as I'm not a geologist or mining person at all - that information is concise and easy to read and understand.

I'm more of a visual person, so hopefully one of these days I'll get a chance to go out with an expert and have some things shown to me so I have a better idea of what to look for when I'm on my own.

AquaLung · Post by **AquaLung** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:45 pm

Laz ,
Thank you !
Cubfan , I am glad the link helped , I am the same way , I learn better with my eyes than my ears

A L

djui5 · Post by **djui5** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:53 pm

Well ok. Now I know Joe is going to blow a gasket, but I'm posting this anyway.

In the letter Joe posted on the other page, the one you can't read, Ted (Quentin) Cox speaks of an article in a previous True West magazine. Here is that article in it entirety. You might take an interest in the article even though it's not from Arizona because the writer denounces the LDM as even existing. This got ole Cox all fired up and he wrote the letter that Joe posted. I'll post that letter after this. Oh Joe, I got this article on my own, it wasn't "handed" to me like you think. If anyone has trouble reading this I have full resolution scans I can send, but the files are very large:

Ok, now that you've read all that, there is a readable version of the Tex Cox letter. enjoy!:

Cubfan64 · Post by **Cubfan64** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:18 am

My first thought was...

I wonder if Tom Bailey ever followed up with an article debunking the LDM in a future issue or if it never ended up happening.

djui5 · Post by **djui5** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:55 am

That was my first thought too. I don't think he ever did, but I'm going to look.

pippinwhitepaws · Post by **pippinwhitepaws** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:44 pm

in reference to the cox letter. did djui5 follow this trail, or did the trail you followed lead to this place?
did you see the human remains?

seems like mr cox wished to halt any mining operation in the area...human remains do put a stop to any legal digging.

pippinwhitepaws · Post by **pippinwhitepaws** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:43 pm

...the cox article states the dutchmans working was above the peralta diggings...hummmm. people passing off disinformation?
i really did not expect a response...don't allow facts to upset the mythology. or...can any information found in a pulp mag be called fact?

djui5 · Post by **djui5** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:31 pm

What? You got no answer because your post is very confusing.

pippinwhitepaws · Post by **pippinwhitepaws** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:48 pm

djui5 wrote:What? You got no answer because your post is very confusing.

i beg your pardon....you have stated you walked to the ldm in question...
i asked if you followed the trail described in the cox letter.
i also asked if you saw the human remains cox described.
i also suggested that after reading the cox letter posted above, that the entire description of the mine site is backwards....everything i have read from the 'experts' has the dutchmans 'pit mine' downslope from the peralta pit.

what do i know...i just was speculating on the cox letter....it does not seem to describe the site posted in this thread as the new found dutchman.
...cox states clearly that the mineralization in this area is predomantly silver.

good thing i make no sense.

pippinwhitepaws · Post by **pippinwhitepaws** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:46 pm

so...if the mine described in this thread is the location cox described, then, the people who spent so much time digging, then they dug the wrong hole.

no breastworks were described with this thread....until the cox letter...
no human remains, and bone does not decompose quickly in the desert.

i guess this should start a stampeed to the site to dig in the correct mine.
tisk.

Cubfan64 · Post by **Cubfan64** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:25 pm

I'm still digesting everything, so can't really comment - especially as I never visited the site in question.

I do wonder however how many of Cox's descriptions would still be "in tact" 50 years after his article.

Looking forward to seeing some more discussion on all this.

Lost Dutchman Goldmine

LOST OR.....FOUND?

IS THIS THE LDM?

Hiking alone out there...

Kindred Spirits.......

Nope

EARLY IDENTIFIACTION.....

Correction.....

Email

Copies......

AL

Thanks for posting those...