Cave With Gold Bars

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 11:02 pm

In the old forum a member asked for information on this story. My Uncle, Chuck Ribaudo and his partner Ernie Provence were both on that trip and it did not last thirty days. They entered the mountains at night and were out the next day. If anyone is interested I will be glad to relate the rest of the story. Al Morrow became involved and made an interesting comment concerning the cave. My information is directly from my uncle and Ernie Provence.

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:12 am

I'm very interested! Anything you're comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear.

S.C. · Post by **S.C.** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:31 am

That sounds very interesting. I would like to hear the details, too.

azmula · Post by **azmula** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 7:59 am

Deleted

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:17 am

I don't know the exact area they searched, but it was extensive. I belive Harry originally brought the story to Tracy, who was also a partner of my Uncle Chuck. I have not read the Ward book, so I don't know what details he related. Harry told them he wanted someone to bring a shotgun because while he was in the cave he felt air movement which made him believe there was an open entrance farther back in the cave. He was worried someone might come in on them while they were inside and he wanted to cover the back with a shotgun. They met for the trek in and no one had brought a shotgun. Harry had a fit and was very nervous.
As they walked in, pitch black by the way, he fell farther and farther back in the line. Eventually he was far behind the rest of them. Erine Provence went back to find him. He was sitting in the trail and refused to go any farther. He told Ernie he was to frightened to go any farther. He said they had enough information to find the cave without him. Ernie grabbed him and shook him hard, telling him, " If you brought us out here in the middle of the night, and lied to us, I will find you and kill you". Harry swore it was true and Ernie believed him. I don't believe they ever saw him again. The group searched all the next day without finding the cave. He had showed gold bars to someone, I think Tracy and possibley Ernie, so they believed his story. I will post the rest of this story later.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:30 pm

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the imput.

Ron

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 7:45 pm

Before my uncle left the mountains after searching all day for the cave, he stopped in at Al Morrows camp. They were friends and Chuck sent Al $50 every month to help with supplies. Chuck told Al the story and the area to search. Sometime later Al called Chucks house from Apache Jct. and talked to his wife, Maxine. He told her he had found the cave and it was just as Harry had described it. He said he had disarmed the dynamite
and gone into the cave. He told her their were three more gold bars missing which he could tell by the lack of dust where they were laying. After saying this much he suddenly got quiet. Later when Chuck went in to see Al, he denied ever making the call. I know this does not sound like a beliveable story, but my aunt confirmed, to me, that it happened just as I have described. Chuck Ribaudo died eighteen years ago in L.A. His wife died a few years ago in Phoenix. Dale Howard died many years ago.
I made one trip into Dale's area on the South side of Black Top close to thirty years ago. Anyone who has not heard the story of how he came to be on Black Top has missed a good yarn.

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 8:23 pm

I received an e-mail from Tracy Hawkins tonight. He set me straight on the cave story. Seems the story I related to the forum, although true, was tied to a perp named Bob Brady. The good news is we now have another cave with gold bars. My uncle mentioned Tracy many times thru the years and I know he can add a ton of information to this forum. If you are lucky, he may even have a better memory then I do.

Tracy,
Welcome to the Lost Dutchman Debating Society.
It ain't dull!!!

Tracy L Hawkins · Post by **Tracy L Hawkins** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 7:58 am

still having trouble getting the forum to accept my posts ---about ready to give up as a bad job
TLH

Tracy L Hawkins · Post by **Tracy L Hawkins** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:09 am

Well ! Happy new year !!! The darn thing decided to accept my last post .
Joe has two differant storys run together.
Chuck, Dale , and Ernie went into the mountains that night he refers to with a chap named Bob Brady---not Harry France .
Brady told them a story about finding this cave and had brought out three bars . I hever saw the bars personally but saw the pictures of them taken by , I believve Ernie, this cave was from what I understand , some where in Needle canyon not far from Al Morrows camp. Brady chickened out on them and dissapered.
Hope this clears up that part of the story---If anyone is intrested and I can get the forum to take my posts I will relate the Harry France tale.
TLH

S.C. · Post by **S.C.** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:37 pm

Tracy,

I am sure lots of us would like to hear what you know about Harry France. Many of us have probably read what Bob Ward wrote about regarding the tale told to you. It is always nice hearing things from the original source.

S.C.

Tracy L Hawkins · Post by **Tracy L Hawkins** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 4:15 pm

To set this story stright I may have to wander around a bit as it involves several other people and events--
The incident Joe refers to took place about two years before Harry France came into the picture. I was not involved directly with that episode but knew about it from Chuck, Ernie and Dale. Bob Brady had found a cave with gold bars as I understand it , someplace in Needle Canyon close to Al's camp. I saw pictures of the bars that Ernie took ,if I remember right--Joe may know for sure .

Harry Franc came into the picture with his tale of finding a cave that we took to be in West Bolder or ols West Boulder canyon. Harry was a long time friend of Bus Bonner and had shown Bus the bar he had and wanted Bus to find a group he trusted to take him back into the mountains to relocate the cave .

Bus came to Dale Howard , Doc LaFave and myself with his story and gold bar ---here I digress a bit but Dale and I recognized the bar as being exactly like the bars Brady had brought out ---this ,of course , gave his story a BIG boost in creditability. Doc LaFave was a medical doctor from back east --around Boston I think--at the time he was on an extended leave and had a place in Whittman Az where he was working some gols ore from a mine north of New River. He was trucking it to his place and working it there--had quite a bit of success too----anyway --Doc had a couple friends back east that he called and they flew out here to hear the story for themselves and to question Harry .

They were so impressed with what they saw and heard they joined with us and put up quite a bit of the money for the expodition--iI do not remember their names but they were both in the medical profession .

The people involved were Harry , Bus Bonner , Dale Howard, Ernie Province, Chuck Rabaudo,Doc LaFave, his two friends and a contractor from Phoenix that Bus knew and three of his workers----I do not at this late date remember their names --its hell to get old

Bob Ward wrote a small version of this tale in his book that I think most of you have read --it is very close to the facts

We spent 90 days out there lookin in the areas Harry could lead us to but had no luck--I do not mean to imply we all spent 90 days continous in the mountains but some of us were in the camp most of the summer --we came out at differant times for supplies and to rest up ----As a writer one said " We found no gold but found the next best thing ---a beautiful place to look for it "

Hope this clears up part of the tale

TLH

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 6:25 pm

Tracy,
Thanks for clearing up the caves. I will add what I remember, or at least close to it. Your statement that the Brady cave was close to Al's camp is correct. Chuck spent a day on his horse, Joe, looking for that cave. It was very rough riding, and Chuck did not have the hammer loop on his Colt. Somewhere on that ride his .45 parted company with his holster. Chuck tried to backtrack and find it without luck. He came back to Al's and explained the loss. He pointed to the mountain he was riding on and told Al, "if you can find it I will give you fifty bucks". Two weeks later, Al called him and told him he had found the gun. It had rained and the gun had a bit of rust on it. Chuck took steel wool to his second generation SAA
and took off all the rust, with the case hardining and bluing as well. I have restored that .45 and it looks brand new. Al's call to Maxine is related in a previous post. Tracy, you may have heard that story from Chuck. Of course the real tidbit I am giving you all, is the fact that Chuck pointed out the mountain he was searching from Al's camp.
Tracy, it would be interesting to hear both of the cave stories as you remember them being told. Exactly as you remember Harry and Bob telling how they found the caves. That may be more then you want to divulge, and you could just blink.

S.C. · Post by **S.C.** » Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:06 pm

I think an interesting aspect to this whole topic is that Bob Brady found a cave with gold bars - took some out - and there were photos of them. THEN Harry France found a cave - took a bar out - and that gold bar (or photos of it) matched the gold bar photos of Bob Brady. First: there WERE photos. Second: the two MATCHED. That is very interesting. Do these photos still exist?

Tracy L Hawkins · Post by **Tracy L Hawkins** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:17 am

SC
in answer to your questions----The bar Harry France had , I personally held in my hands and examined--Doc LaVave ran a spectrograph on it and determained it was 86& gold with silver and lead. This bar was apx 3inches wide, 3/4 inch rhick and about 5 inches long ---very rough cast in what appeared to be a stone mold ---the top serface was rough and had a black film over it ----in the upper left corner was 5 dots and a groupe of faint lines that had been pressed into it forming a faint outline of a crown --THIS SAME MARK WAS ON THE BARS b BRADY HAD . ( as I said , I never saw Bradys bars personally but saw the pictures.)
To the best of my knowledge the pictures were distroyed in a fire in New River.
TLH

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 5:55 pm

The question that these stories bring up, is, are there two caves with gold bars? Since the original finders were involved in both searches, Brady to a lesser degree, you would think one or the other would have been located. Since Brady backed out of the search for his cave, I would have to guess he was not being truthful, at least as to location. That leaves Harry as probably leading his search in the correct area, since he stuck with the searchers so long. I lean towards only one cave for both men. Tracy is now the second person who has said he held the gold bar in his hands. Ernie Provence being the other, that I know of. I don't remember if Chuck saw it himself. To many years ago. Now I might have made a trip into the mountains with Ernie behind one of his stories, but I wouldn't have spent much money. The man had a lot of stories.....and he was very convincing in the telling. Chuck believed this one, and that is good enough for me. As for the cave being close to Al's camp. A few years ago, we were camped in an out of the way location. Around three in the morning a helicopter flew up a nearby canyon below us. He went around Weavers Needle and landed somewhere northeast of it. He made six or eight trips and hovered over our camp once. We had turned on a light thinking at first he might be trying to locate us. Family emergency or something like that. He would have been landing somewhere east of Al's camp or on the south end of Bluff Spring Mt. It was a small white heliocopter.

Tracy L Hawkins · Post by **Tracy L Hawkins** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:19 pm

Joe
You bring up an intresting point about the caves --were ther one or two ---I don't know for sure but I believe old Harry was telling the truth as well as he could . I don't find it to hard to believe there are two stashes in the mountains . It is my beliefe that the mexican miners when the Apache were after them would have stashed the gold when their mules were picked off . I think they took the packs from the wounded mules and overloaded the remainder and when they camped at night hid what they could not carry. It would be reasonable to assume they woluld have unloaded the least valuable loads first and I feel this stash may be what the dutchman may have found . I think the miners stashed the more valuable gold --the bars --last in the cave Harry France found ----from the location he lead us to it would be only a short run to the massacure grounds . I think the gold found there was what they had in their saddle bags.

Chuck did see the bar Harry had at my house in Wittman . I was there when Harry showed it to him .

As far as the stash Brady "found " if I remember righ he claimed there were several leather bags of gold ore in the cave .

Joe , do you remember if Chuck ever mentioned that Brady claimed there was an old wooden bed inside the cave???

I am sure someone will question my conclusions about the stashes but I have always read and heard there was a three day running fight with the Apaches before the massacure . Apache did not like to fight at night and would have given the mexicans time to hide the gold .

The area I was told by Chuck and Ernie that Brady claimed was on the west side od Bluff Springs about half way up . Does this fit with what you remember Joe ???
TLH

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:17 pm

Tracy,
I don't remember Chuck mentioning a wooden bed or sacks of ore. That, of course, does not mean he didn't tell me about them. He did say something about a gold sunburst and a gold statue of a priest. Can't remember which cave they were associated with. As for the gold in either cave story being placed there by mexican miners, I would doubt that possibility. Both stories have the bars marked for the Kings Royal Fifth. That would rule out the Peraltas being involved. I think we are talking Jesuit treasure here. The reason for the expulsion of the Jesuits in 1767, as I understand it, is that the Franciscan Order, wanting to replace them in the new world, told King Carlos that the Jesuits were not sending him the full share of the gold they were mining. Since the bars in both caves were marked with a crown, I believe they would be the Kings share. If these caves are ever located, it could lift the story of Jesuit mining out of legend and into reality. I do remember that West Boulder was the conclusion for Harrys cave. I think, north end, east side. In one of the stories it was a pig cave, he saw pigs coming out and crawled inside for shelter. You are correct as to the stated location of Bradys cave. In spite of Al's call to Maxine, I don't believe it's there. If any of you who are listening in, rush up there and fall into a pig cave, remember the two guys who gave you this information.
Tracy, do you have any pictures of your trips into the Supes with Chuck? He was a little camera shy.

Tracy L Hawkins · Post by **Tracy L Hawkins** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:05 pm

Joe
I simply don't know --all I can relate is what I personally saw ---anything that I say that iis hearsay I will try to indicate that it is .

If you can find them in a library some where I wouls suguest you read " The Religious Quest of the Americas"---Ernie and I found them in the Phoenix main library and there are some intresting storys with maps about the Jesiu treasure .

I don't know anything about pigs being in Harrys cave ---he claimed to have met a cougar coming in as he was going out -----he went one way and the cat went another but it scared him so bad he lost track of where he was .

Joe , I don't know if I have pics of Chuck or not --back then I carried a super 8 movie camera with me and I have several hundred feet of film taken at differant time in the Supes and over them --unfortunatly, my projector is broxen and I can't find parts for it so I have no way to check.

TLH

Tracy L Hawkins · Post by **Tracy L Hawkins** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:25 pm

I believe you said you read the forum
You ask for my Email address and I think I made a mistake when I gave it to you -- I have several Email accounts and I think I got them mixed -
The one I should have given you is -----[email protected]------
sorry sir it was an honest mistake ( its hell getting old )
Tracy Hawkins

Old Boy Scout · Post by **Old Boy Scout** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:56 pm

Well I just came back from a nice week of camping in the mountains.
And I do mean nice! My son and I set up camp near the Salt River at an existing camp site. That night it was cold so we gathered as much wood so we could find and sat by the fire. OK.....that night my son saw a very shiny gold reflection in the camp fire rock ring........after inspecting it we found 7 poorly rapped and almost deteriated, fire burned cotton bundles (2.5x1.5 FT).
We found GOLD!!!! Some nugets most still stuck in its matrix....but mostly gold! Now I don't know if this is the lost treasure but I am ever so glad we were never looking for it! We probably would have never found it! If this is not the lost treasure where is it supose to be? I think I have been bit by the gold bug and I want to find more!

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:48 am

Our first "Boy Scout",

Welcome to the forum. You will find many scouts and no Cheifs here.

Sounds like you should have kept the "cotton" and thrown the "gold" away.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:42 am

Peter,

I should think this topic will answer many of your questions concerning the cave of gold bars.

Joe Ribaudo

TGH · Post by **TGH** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:10 am

>>I know you are angry because I declined your sexual advances......blah blah blah<<

Little Joe Ribado

Always a CLASS act.

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:42 am

Peter,

Thanks for the constant reminders of your focus in life, as well as what Peter is really all about.

Joe Ribaudo

Lost Dutchman Goldmine