Park
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BlackBeard
- Greenhorn
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:02 pm
Re: Lost Dutchman Gold
Hi Blackbeard, welcome to the insanity.BlackBeard wrote:Hello all,
I'm new to this list and just wanted to say houdy.
I'm just starting to go Treasure Hunting looking for the lost dutchman Gold Mine. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on an area to start hiking in at?
I have already been to the State Park in the Superstitions and saw a lot of things around there. Most of what I saw lead me to an area off West.
I'm not much of trail hound and probably more green horn than anyone here.
But, I was wondering if the carved symbol on the small mountain off of Treasure Loop Trail that says "ORO 1847" and has an arrow pointing towards the South is from the Peraltas Mines?
Is the Lost Dutchman a Peralta Mine or an Indian Mine?
Is the Dutchman Mine his own Prospect or did he steal it?
Why is the Dutchman Mine a 90 degree direction away from the "ORO 1847" arrow?
Is that big rock that looks like a bed in the State Park one of them there Spanish Rest Stops?
New to the game and looking for the right roads to ride off into the sunset,
Kino West mrgreen:
Re. your questions,
1) I've never been on the Treasure Loop Trail, and so never seen the marking you describe. But is sounds suspicious. You'll find all sorts of phony markings all through the Superstitions. (Or are they phony?)
2) No one actually knows if the LDM was a Peralta mine. I don't think the Indians did any mining.
3) Whether the Dutchman had an actual mine, a cache, or stole the gold has been debated for years. Bottom line, no one knows that either.
4) I don't understand why you think the Dutchman mine is 90 degrees away from the Oro 1847 marking. Do you know where the Dutchman is? If so you're way ahead of the rest of us.
5) The big bed-shaped rock was mentioned by Kenworthy in one of his books. Personally I think it's just a rock. I mean, look at the terrain - is that where you'd pick for a camp?
Good questions! Good luck finding the answers, and again, welcome to our mad little world.
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BlackBeard
- Greenhorn
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:02 pm
Exploration Sites
Blackbeard,
If you are looking for sites to search, try this one...
From the intersection of Marsh Valley and Squaw Valley, go northwest up Marsh Valley for ~3/4 mile. Watch westward for an entrance into a "hidden valley" to the west.
After entering the valley, check the southside of a peak south of the entrance for a profile of a face. According to aerial photographs and Charles Kenworthy's sun signs, the area hides a rock-covered water pit. I also suspect a mine entrance in the area.
I will not be able to check the area untill 2005.
Let me know what you find...
If you are looking for sites to search, try this one...
From the intersection of Marsh Valley and Squaw Valley, go northwest up Marsh Valley for ~3/4 mile. Watch westward for an entrance into a "hidden valley" to the west.
After entering the valley, check the southside of a peak south of the entrance for a profile of a face. According to aerial photographs and Charles Kenworthy's sun signs, the area hides a rock-covered water pit. I also suspect a mine entrance in the area.
I will not be able to check the area untill 2005.
Let me know what you find...
Charlie
Sun Signs in the Superstitions
There is only one reference to a "Sun Sign" per Kenworhty's descriptions that I have found associated with the Superstitions. In the full version hardcover of Bary Storm's book, Thunder Gods Gold (1945/1946). there are 96 "Notes of Authenticity" at the end of the book. Note 31 on page 163 reads:
"The only light or reflecting sign which I have seen so far in the Superstitions was that of a TRIANGLE (my italics) sign reflected onto a cliff face in LaBarge Canyon about three miles above its Boulder Canyon junction. This occurred August 6, 1937 at about 2:00pm and shown for apporoximately ten minutes."
Going up LaBarge 3 miles above its junction with Boulder will place you just west of the south side of Malapais mountain or opposite what is known to some as Deering Canyon coming down the southwest side of Malapais. Based on the 2:00pm sighting time of Storm, the sign was most likely located on the west side of LaBarge and somewhat high up on the west canyon wall. There is a Park Trail 239 that goes roughly up the canyon on the west wall in the area of where the Sun sign should be located. The possibility does exist that the sign could be on the East side of the canyon.
The description of the triangle sun sign matches exactly what Kenworhy has in his book, "Treasire Signs, Symbols, Shadow & Sun Signs (1991)". Since Storm saw the triangle sign 54 yrs before Kenworhty's book and documented what he saw 46 years ahead of it, we will assume Storm had no collaboration with Kenworthy. Kenworthy writes that these sun signs were oriented to only be seen around high noon plus/minus one hour. However, with the earth's axis shift over time, it is not suprising that it would appear at 2:00pm in 1937 and that time would have shifted some more in 57 years to today.
Kenworthy stated that these sun signs were placed alone in a mine area or at a campsite along a trail where there is water. The sign might be found to indicate a buried/hidden map or a cave with tools nearby. Based on the amount of effort that was required to create one of these sun signs, I would suspect the Spanish were marking something of major significance with it and planning on only those who knew about its general area being able to find it.
I have always planned to camp a day or two in LaBarge in that immediate area and watch the west and east walls from 1:00pm to 3:00pm to see if the triangle sun sign was still there. Note that one would have to compensate some for Storm seeing the triangle light in early August versus being there in the winter months.
NOTE: The current paperback version of Thunder Gods Gold re-published by Bob Schoose of Goldfield does not contain these end notes. You need the original hardback issue to get them.
Roger
"The only light or reflecting sign which I have seen so far in the Superstitions was that of a TRIANGLE (my italics) sign reflected onto a cliff face in LaBarge Canyon about three miles above its Boulder Canyon junction. This occurred August 6, 1937 at about 2:00pm and shown for apporoximately ten minutes."
Going up LaBarge 3 miles above its junction with Boulder will place you just west of the south side of Malapais mountain or opposite what is known to some as Deering Canyon coming down the southwest side of Malapais. Based on the 2:00pm sighting time of Storm, the sign was most likely located on the west side of LaBarge and somewhat high up on the west canyon wall. There is a Park Trail 239 that goes roughly up the canyon on the west wall in the area of where the Sun sign should be located. The possibility does exist that the sign could be on the East side of the canyon.
The description of the triangle sun sign matches exactly what Kenworhy has in his book, "Treasire Signs, Symbols, Shadow & Sun Signs (1991)". Since Storm saw the triangle sign 54 yrs before Kenworhty's book and documented what he saw 46 years ahead of it, we will assume Storm had no collaboration with Kenworthy. Kenworthy writes that these sun signs were oriented to only be seen around high noon plus/minus one hour. However, with the earth's axis shift over time, it is not suprising that it would appear at 2:00pm in 1937 and that time would have shifted some more in 57 years to today.
Kenworthy stated that these sun signs were placed alone in a mine area or at a campsite along a trail where there is water. The sign might be found to indicate a buried/hidden map or a cave with tools nearby. Based on the amount of effort that was required to create one of these sun signs, I would suspect the Spanish were marking something of major significance with it and planning on only those who knew about its general area being able to find it.
I have always planned to camp a day or two in LaBarge in that immediate area and watch the west and east walls from 1:00pm to 3:00pm to see if the triangle sun sign was still there. Note that one would have to compensate some for Storm seeing the triangle light in early August versus being there in the winter months.
NOTE: The current paperback version of Thunder Gods Gold re-published by Bob Schoose of Goldfield does not contain these end notes. You need the original hardback issue to get them.
Roger