I must say my team members have "slapped me silly" so my presence
here will be more subdued for a while. I am still interested in an "Eat Crow"
dinner in May.
I know little of the history of the stone maps or their provenance. It is a
surprise to me that history says the object of their creation is still there.
Not sure how pleased I am about that. I could find an empty hole easier
than a covered treasure. We'll have to look into how you detect a buried
treasure without digging.
How deep do you think one would have to sense? What sensor to use?
Could that be a new thread? Surely no one would consider it proprietary.
I suppose we would be talking about magnetometers, ground radar, and
the classic metal detector with its limited depth capability. Can you rent
ground radar?
Harry
The Stone Maps
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Joe Ribaudo
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History
Harry,
I don't think "history" is on our side here. History says there is no Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions or anywhere else. History does not say that the treasure is still there or that it ever was. IMHO, until the treasure is actually found, it remains in the realm of "legend".
The legend of how the Jesuits were removed from Mexico is not the same as the "history" of how they were removed. Some have followed the legend to a "T" in their writings, but legend and the facts of history do not always agree.
While there are credible stories of Jesuit Treasure being found, they remain stories and thus legend until someone brings a treasure to the eyes of those who can authenticate it. Until that time, it is all an exciting story and not history. At this point in time, we have lots of sizzle and no steak.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I don't think "history" is on our side here. History says there is no Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions or anywhere else. History does not say that the treasure is still there or that it ever was. IMHO, until the treasure is actually found, it remains in the realm of "legend".
The legend of how the Jesuits were removed from Mexico is not the same as the "history" of how they were removed. Some have followed the legend to a "T" in their writings, but legend and the facts of history do not always agree.
While there are credible stories of Jesuit Treasure being found, they remain stories and thus legend until someone brings a treasure to the eyes of those who can authenticate it. Until that time, it is all an exciting story and not history. At this point in time, we have lots of sizzle and no steak.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Tiresome Story?
Peter,
"Too bad that one gets sick of hearing about them, particuarly when I believe Azmula has done much good work in their regard. I still do not think they will lead anyone to the LDM. Jesuit treasure, however, is another matter entirely." (emphasis in bold by Joe)
For someone who is "sick of hearing about them", you talk about little else.
No doubt it is just as obvious to others, as it is to you, that there is no interest in the Stone Maps or the Jesuit Treasure. Your insight into the situation is remarkable and shows your superior intelligence to be hard at work. 
"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark."
[Cheyene]
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
"Too bad that one gets sick of hearing about them, particuarly when I believe Azmula has done much good work in their regard. I still do not think they will lead anyone to the LDM. Jesuit treasure, however, is another matter entirely." (emphasis in bold by Joe)
For someone who is "sick of hearing about them", you talk about little else.
No doubt it is just as obvious to others, as it is to you, that there is no interest in the Stone Maps or the Jesuit Treasure.
Your insight into the situation is remarkable and shows your superior intelligence to be hard at work. "Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark."
[Cheyene]
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Stone maps leading to ld mine
Hello,
I agree with you Joe, I do not think the peralta stones lead to the lost dutchman, but that they do lead to a jesuit treasure.
rochha
I agree with you Joe, I do not think the peralta stones lead to the lost dutchman, but that they do lead to a jesuit treasure.
rochha
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Joe Ribaudo
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Trail to The Lost Dutchman?
rochha,
I am not sure you do agree with me.
While I believe the Stone Maps central theme is to show the location of the Jesuit Treasure, I also believe that the LDM is also shown on the maps.
If you take the Stone Malps alone, you would have no clue that the LDM is on them. It is all of the other stories, maps and legends that indicate that the Waltz mine/cache is shown on the Stone Maps.
Thank you for your comments.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I am not sure you do agree with me.
While I believe the Stone Maps central theme is to show the location of the Jesuit Treasure, I also believe that the LDM is also shown on the maps.
If you take the Stone Malps alone, you would have no clue that the LDM is on them. It is all of the other stories, maps and legends that indicate that the Waltz mine/cache is shown on the Stone Maps.
Thank you for your comments.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
LDM on Maps
Joe
Your right then, I dont think the peralta stones has anything to do with the lost dutchman mine. I think they only indicate one mine and one mine only, a jesuit stash. I believe when they knew they were being expelled they hid alot of what they had mined and some church artifacts to as far north as they possibly could thinking no one from spain would ever find it. While I also believe that they had many stashs of things they hid, I think this one was very special for someone reason. That is why I think it is this far north.
rochha
Your right then, I dont think the peralta stones has anything to do with the lost dutchman mine. I think they only indicate one mine and one mine only, a jesuit stash. I believe when they knew they were being expelled they hid alot of what they had mined and some church artifacts to as far north as they possibly could thinking no one from spain would ever find it. While I also believe that they had many stashs of things they hid, I think this one was very special for someone reason. That is why I think it is this far north.
rochha
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Joe Ribaudo
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Treasure or Ore?
rochha,
Thank you for your reply.
If Waltz found the Jesuit Treasure, why would he bother with the ore that turns up so often in the legend? There is no indication, that I am aware of, which hints that Waltz ever had anything but ore.
I am quite sure that the final location of the Stone Map trail has nothing whatsoever to do with Jacob Waltz.
There are many popular stories concerning the expulsion of the Jesuits -
how it was done, what day it was done and who was in charge of the job are all well documented history. That (real) history has only a passing resemblance to the stories that are told here. If you are going to believe in the Jesuit Treasure, the historical record of the time must be set aside.
The evidence I have seen and have personal knowledge of, has caused me to set aside the "historical record".
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Thank you for your reply.
If Waltz found the Jesuit Treasure, why would he bother with the ore that turns up so often in the legend? There is no indication, that I am aware of, which hints that Waltz ever had anything but ore.
I am quite sure that the final location of the Stone Map trail has nothing whatsoever to do with Jacob Waltz.
There are many popular stories concerning the expulsion of the Jesuits -
how it was done, what day it was done and who was in charge of the job are all well documented history. That (real) history has only a passing resemblance to the stories that are told here. If you are going to believe in the Jesuit Treasure, the historical record of the time must be set aside.
The evidence I have seen and have personal knowledge of, has caused me to set aside the "historical record".
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
The Stone Maps Function
DELETED
Last edited by azmula on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
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I Agree!
rochha,
I must agree with Azmula here. It has become obvious that when he says:
"You are correct on every point you made and some not made. The four maps function alone, but in several different ways as I eluded to in my articles." he is speaking the real truth concerning his posts and articles. (emphasis in bold by Joe)
Sigmund Freud is chuckling as we speak.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I must agree with Azmula here. It has become obvious that when he says:
"You are correct on every point you made and some not made. The four maps function alone, but in several different ways as I eluded to in my articles." he is speaking the real truth concerning his posts and articles. (emphasis in bold by Joe)
Sigmund Freud is chuckling as we speak.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Stones
Joe,
Everyone assumes that what jacob waltz found is reffered to from the peralta stones or a jesuit treasure. It could just as easily been something worked before from someone else. He kills 3 people I think for it. A mine that allready had a exposed gold vein in it. What ever he found or killed for was very rich in deed, but it was in ore form, not bars I think.
I feel there are many mines out there in the Super's, but feel the stones reference only one, a special one. I dont feel what waltz found was it.
Azmula,
I have found your articles very interesting reading and have enjoyed them all. I agree with you when you say some people pass things off as a hoax when they dont understand what they see. Also I believe there were at one time monument, trail and symbol markers to take you to your final destination out there and they have been tampered or destroyed. Some day these stones will be figured out only to be short changed because the original rock clues left behind are gone or moved.
That's my two cents worth!
Rochha
Everyone assumes that what jacob waltz found is reffered to from the peralta stones or a jesuit treasure. It could just as easily been something worked before from someone else. He kills 3 people I think for it. A mine that allready had a exposed gold vein in it. What ever he found or killed for was very rich in deed, but it was in ore form, not bars I think.
I feel there are many mines out there in the Super's, but feel the stones reference only one, a special one. I dont feel what waltz found was it.
Azmula,
I have found your articles very interesting reading and have enjoyed them all. I agree with you when you say some people pass things off as a hoax when they dont understand what they see. Also I believe there were at one time monument, trail and symbol markers to take you to your final destination out there and they have been tampered or destroyed. Some day these stones will be figured out only to be short changed because the original rock clues left behind are gone or moved.
That's my two cents worth!
Rochha
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Joe Ribaudo
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Stone Monuments
rochha,
I don't know if Waltz ever killed anyone, but I do know that if you are on the Stone Map trail, you will find monuments. If you don't find those monuments, you are not on the trail. One of those monuments will point you to the next one. Once you see them you will know for sure you are right. They are not all gone.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I don't know if Waltz ever killed anyone, but I do know that if you are on the Stone Map trail, you will find monuments. If you don't find those monuments, you are not on the trail. One of those monuments will point you to the next one. Once you see them you will know for sure you are right. They are not all gone.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Monuments
Joe,
I did not mean to imply that all of them are gone, only that they were probably tampered with at one time or that some of them have been removed or something. I am sure there are almost all of them still there, but those that could have possibly been moved or tampered with could alter your final destination. The spanish were exact and precise in all of there monument, trail and symbol usage to lead you some where. That is all that I meant. I have also heard of some earthquake that happened out there one time, some could have been moved or shifted then, who know's!
rochha
I did not mean to imply that all of them are gone, only that they were probably tampered with at one time or that some of them have been removed or something. I am sure there are almost all of them still there, but those that could have possibly been moved or tampered with could alter your final destination. The spanish were exact and precise in all of there monument, trail and symbol usage to lead you some where. That is all that I meant. I have also heard of some earthquake that happened out there one time, some could have been moved or shifted then, who know's!
rochha
Priest
Azmula,
Forgot to ask you one thing, you say that the stone's were made by a jesuit preist who did not pass that informaton on to family, jesuit or pope because he did not have the opportunity to. Was he using a different code method than what they were using all along? Or did he tweak the existing method so no one else would know it? Shouldn't fellow jeusit's know what was being said on the stones because of their exposure to their code and it's use?
rochha
Forgot to ask you one thing, you say that the stone's were made by a jesuit preist who did not pass that informaton on to family, jesuit or pope because he did not have the opportunity to. Was he using a different code method than what they were using all along? Or did he tweak the existing method so no one else would know it? Shouldn't fellow jeusit's know what was being said on the stones because of their exposure to their code and it's use?
rochha
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Joe Ribaudo
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Earthquakes?
rochha,
You may be right concerning the monuments. I think those that were not difficult to reach have been destroyed. As for earthquakes, I doubt there has been any activity that has changed the mountains much since the Dutchmans, or the Jesuits time for that matter.
If no one knew how to interpretate the maps, how did they get back to the Superstitions from the celler in Mexico? If that is what happened, someone knew something.
Much of what we have all accepted as "the story" here is nothing more than fiction. There are a few people here who know the history of the Jesuits and Mexico well enough to shed some light on the fictitious
"facts" we are being fed on this forum.
Azmula,
What are the historical sources for these statements?
"The soldiers marched north form Mexico City and as they reached their assigned missions in Pimeria Alta they found meager wealth at the missions. For over ten years the Jesuit priests planned for the day that the expulsion would come. they would cache the wealth that could not be shipped back to the Church in Europe safely. A messenger relay system was set-up to transmit the final notice of the comming soldiers to arrest and remove the priests with all of their suspected wealth. When the final warning was received they stripped their churches and cached the adornments then covered all of the minning efforts."
I have asked you to provide the sources for some of your statments before, and I assume you have been unable to locate those notes.
You have asked for comments on your articles and if you can supply the sources for the above statements I am sure you will receive all you can handle.
I look forward to seeing your sources for the above material.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
You may be right concerning the monuments. I think those that were not difficult to reach have been destroyed. As for earthquakes, I doubt there has been any activity that has changed the mountains much since the Dutchmans, or the Jesuits time for that matter.
If no one knew how to interpretate the maps, how did they get back to the Superstitions from the celler in Mexico? If that is what happened, someone knew something.
Much of what we have all accepted as "the story" here is nothing more than fiction. There are a few people here who know the history of the Jesuits and Mexico well enough to shed some light on the fictitious
"facts" we are being fed on this forum.
Azmula,
What are the historical sources for these statements?
"The soldiers marched north form Mexico City and as they reached their assigned missions in Pimeria Alta they found meager wealth at the missions. For over ten years the Jesuit priests planned for the day that the expulsion would come. they would cache the wealth that could not be shipped back to the Church in Europe safely. A messenger relay system was set-up to transmit the final notice of the comming soldiers to arrest and remove the priests with all of their suspected wealth. When the final warning was received they stripped their churches and cached the adornments then covered all of the minning efforts."
I have asked you to provide the sources for some of your statments before, and I assume you have been unable to locate those notes.
You have asked for comments on your articles and if you can supply the sources for the above statements I am sure you will receive all you can handle.
I look forward to seeing your sources for the above material.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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A Reasonable Question? or No Harm in Asking.
[Quote]
azmula
Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 75
Location: Tortilla Flats +/-
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:32 am Post subject: The Stone Maps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Joe,
This is a very good thread to start since it truly leads to the treasure and requires less historical background. Everything is in the maps to find the treasure if one ignores past lore and thinks like a 150 year old Spaniard.
I find it interesting that you are not offering any of your findings. You have have stated many times in the past that you have already "figured them out". I for one would like to know what you feel you figured out? Or if that is too sensitive, then as much as you are willing to divulge to quide those of us not yet to your level of investigation. (emphasis in bold by Joe)
azmula"
Joe:
I have been working on the legends of the Superstitions for over fourty years. In that time I have read volumes of material on the lore of the Superstitions and the history of Mexico. I have received many stories that have never been in print. I have shared many of those stories with the members of this forum. When questioned or even ridiculed I never took the comments as reflecting on my honesty or abilities. Like Azmula, Peter, Wiz, S.C. and the rest of the members, I know what I know and have always shared what I could.
This was my answer to Azmula:
"azmula,
I don't mind telling you what I have figured out at all. I believe the maps are legitimate. I know all of the important (approximate) locations. The mines, the trails, the monuments, the landmarks and the final location, which I believe was or still is a cache. One of the Xs on the maps is the location of the LDM. It conforms to other maps and stories that show or describe the location. I know the exact location of the horse and the witch. I have disclosed the location of the witch but not the horse. I believe they have nothing to do with the locations of the mines or cache. I know 100% where most of the map locations are, to the spot on the ground. The answer to your next question is: The Xs and the final location are in very rough terrain. The only possible open or obvious location, will be the LDM. We will search that ravine this year. The maps are not a precise locater for the mines or cache. It will take a lot of time on the ground to find the exact spots, if it's possible at all. I do not discount the possibility that the Stone Maps could be a hoax. There are good indications that two of them probably are. After my next trip I will have the answer to that question. Since the other maps and stories in the LDM legend support the location shown on the Stone Maps, for the Waltz mine, I believe something will be found in the ravine. I have been fairly specific here as to what I have "figured out". Does this give you a better perspective? I hope so, because this is all you will get until next year. Good hunting.
Joe"
This seems like the proper response to a sensitive question on an (open to the public) forum. I have given and received much more sensitive information in private messages, E-mails and over the phone with forum members.
We have not always been kind or respectful to the other members of this forum. Many of those who took our comments personally, have left the site. That will not change. We have all made mistakes in our messages to each other. That will not change. How we deal with the responses of others will, hopefully, change.
Those who have been members for a long time and believe they are above all of this, should take the time to read their old posts with an open mind.
Thin skins and strong opinions are not compatible. If you look at yourself and find both of those things looking back, you should shed the skin or the strong opinions. You will have a lot more fun.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
azmula
Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 75
Location: Tortilla Flats +/-
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:32 am Post subject: The Stone Maps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Joe,
This is a very good thread to start since it truly leads to the treasure and requires less historical background. Everything is in the maps to find the treasure if one ignores past lore and thinks like a 150 year old Spaniard.
I find it interesting that you are not offering any of your findings. You have have stated many times in the past that you have already "figured them out". I for one would like to know what you feel you figured out? Or if that is too sensitive, then as much as you are willing to divulge to quide those of us not yet to your level of investigation. (emphasis in bold by Joe)
azmula"
Joe:
I have been working on the legends of the Superstitions for over fourty years. In that time I have read volumes of material on the lore of the Superstitions and the history of Mexico. I have received many stories that have never been in print. I have shared many of those stories with the members of this forum. When questioned or even ridiculed I never took the comments as reflecting on my honesty or abilities. Like Azmula, Peter, Wiz, S.C. and the rest of the members, I know what I know and have always shared what I could.
This was my answer to Azmula:
"azmula,
I don't mind telling you what I have figured out at all. I believe the maps are legitimate. I know all of the important (approximate) locations. The mines, the trails, the monuments, the landmarks and the final location, which I believe was or still is a cache. One of the Xs on the maps is the location of the LDM. It conforms to other maps and stories that show or describe the location. I know the exact location of the horse and the witch. I have disclosed the location of the witch but not the horse. I believe they have nothing to do with the locations of the mines or cache. I know 100% where most of the map locations are, to the spot on the ground. The answer to your next question is: The Xs and the final location are in very rough terrain. The only possible open or obvious location, will be the LDM. We will search that ravine this year. The maps are not a precise locater for the mines or cache. It will take a lot of time on the ground to find the exact spots, if it's possible at all. I do not discount the possibility that the Stone Maps could be a hoax. There are good indications that two of them probably are. After my next trip I will have the answer to that question. Since the other maps and stories in the LDM legend support the location shown on the Stone Maps, for the Waltz mine, I believe something will be found in the ravine. I have been fairly specific here as to what I have "figured out". Does this give you a better perspective? I hope so, because this is all you will get until next year. Good hunting.
Joe"
This seems like the proper response to a sensitive question on an (open to the public) forum. I have given and received much more sensitive information in private messages, E-mails and over the phone with forum members.
We have not always been kind or respectful to the other members of this forum. Many of those who took our comments personally, have left the site. That will not change. We have all made mistakes in our messages to each other. That will not change. How we deal with the responses of others will, hopefully, change.
Those who have been members for a long time and believe they are above all of this, should take the time to read their old posts with an open mind.
Thin skins and strong opinions are not compatible. If you look at yourself and find both of those things looking back, you should shed the skin or the strong opinions. You will have a lot more fun.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Azmula's articles
I've just finished re-reading Azmula's excellent series of stone map articles. There has been a flurry of comments on them, primarily from one person who seems intent on insisting that Azmula is all wrong in his interpretations. I can make no comment on the validity of these claims, but it's entertaining. If any of you haven't looked at them recently, check it out.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Reading for Understanding
Wiz,
I agree, and always have, that Azmula's articles were an "excellent" and well researched series.
[Wiz]
"....primarily from one person who seems intent on insisting that Azmula is all wrong in his interpretations."
Joe:
Do you believe asking questions about sources for historical comments equals "insisting that Azmula is all wrong in his interpretations"?
(epmhasis in bold by Joe)
Azmula's "historical comments" have nothing to do with "interpretations".
Asking for information is not an unusual or out-of-line thing to do on a forum such as this. Please read my last post in this thread. It is up to the person who is asked for the information to decide whether he or she will comply with the request.
If you have a problem with the replies on this forum, you should drag a direct quote from that reply to your own post and let everyone decide just how accurate your own complaints are.
I have requested that very thing a number of times on this forum, without results. I have also copied many quotes into my own posts for clarification and comments. If all of that seems unreasonable to you, than I can easily understand why you would have a problem with someone asking for sources for "historical comments". I believe there is a direct parallel here.
If you have a problem with anything that someone says on this forum, you should use a direct quote to make your point. Much like using sources for any "historical comments" it will help to establish your own credibility.
Making vague and unsubstantiated charges will not establish the truth of your comments. Only hard evidence will make your point.
Please do not take this post as a personal attack on you. All of the evidence for establishing the truth is in this forum. You need only read and understand what you are reading.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I agree, and always have, that Azmula's articles were an "excellent" and well researched series.
[Wiz]
"....primarily from one person who seems intent on insisting that Azmula is all wrong in his interpretations."
Joe:
Do you believe asking questions about sources for historical comments equals "insisting that Azmula is all wrong in his interpretations"?
(epmhasis in bold by Joe)
Azmula's "historical comments" have nothing to do with "interpretations".
Asking for information is not an unusual or out-of-line thing to do on a forum such as this. Please read my last post in this thread. It is up to the person who is asked for the information to decide whether he or she will comply with the request.
If you have a problem with the replies on this forum, you should drag a direct quote from that reply to your own post and let everyone decide just how accurate your own complaints are.
I have requested that very thing a number of times on this forum, without results. I have also copied many quotes into my own posts for clarification and comments. If all of that seems unreasonable to you, than I can easily understand why you would have a problem with someone asking for sources for "historical comments". I believe there is a direct parallel here.
If you have a problem with anything that someone says on this forum, you should use a direct quote to make your point. Much like using sources for any "historical comments" it will help to establish your own credibility.
Making vague and unsubstantiated charges will not establish the truth of your comments. Only hard evidence will make your point.
Please do not take this post as a personal attack on you. All of the evidence for establishing the truth is in this forum. You need only read and understand what you are reading.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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The Museum
I know no one is interested in the subject of the Stone Maps as there are so few people viewing this subject compared to all of the others, but Carolyn and I did visit the Museum on Sat. the 18th. We met Knun and Rochha while we were there and I had a nice talk with them. They were both enjoyable to talk to and seemed knowledgeable about my favorite subject. We photographed the maps which were in stands and looked pretty much as advertised. If anyone is interested, they have a CD available with high resolution pictures of the maps. You can call the Museum and ask about them. We made a donation to the Museum and they will send us the CD.
For those who have never been there it is a great way to spend a few hours. Hopefully they will survive the budget crunch.
We left the Museum and found our way to Tracy Hawkins home. It was a real pleasure for us to meet Tracy and talk over his times with my Uncle Chuck. Needless to say, we also discussed a few other subjects. Tracy is one of the last of an era of Dutch Hunters, who will not be seen again. He came through the mountains while they were still in a free state.
There were few surprises to be found on the stones, but there are a number of less well known markings. The fact that the Priest/Horse Maps are on a different type of stone and seem to be in a different style, have added some weight (in my mind) to the conclusion that they could be something that was created at a later date to confuse the issue. That is pure conjecture on my part. The ghost of a cowboy raises its ugly head.
Tracy,
Thank you for your time and hospitality. I look forward to seeing you again.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
For those who have never been there it is a great way to spend a few hours. Hopefully they will survive the budget crunch.
We left the Museum and found our way to Tracy Hawkins home. It was a real pleasure for us to meet Tracy and talk over his times with my Uncle Chuck. Needless to say, we also discussed a few other subjects. Tracy is one of the last of an era of Dutch Hunters, who will not be seen again. He came through the mountains while they were still in a free state.
There were few surprises to be found on the stones, but there are a number of less well known markings. The fact that the Priest/Horse Maps are on a different type of stone and seem to be in a different style, have added some weight (in my mind) to the conclusion that they could be something that was created at a later date to confuse the issue. That is pure conjecture on my part. The ghost of a cowboy raises its ugly head.
Tracy,
Thank you for your time and hospitality. I look forward to seeing you again.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Museum
Joe,
I had a very enjoyable time meeting and discusiing the things we did at the museum saturday. I was hoping that I would meet you there, Knun it was nice to meet you as well. The guy who was showing us the stones after you guys left, I told him that I had actually been there twice to photograph the stones and that I lost the cd's I had the photo's on. He was nice enought to move the stones on the table so I could photograph them again no charge. I did however leave with about $50 worth of neat looking rocks for my rock hound wife, she really enjoyed some of the rocks I came home with, I kinda would have like to take the Peralta Stones home as well but that is another matter. They sure would look neat on my fireplace mantle along with all the other goofy s_ _ t I have. It sure is nice to share idea's and thoughts and talk to someone else about this who truly has the same interest as I do. Everytime I talk to my wife about this stuff she rolls her eye's at me and calls me " Indiana ".
Enjoyed our visit guy's
rochha
I had a very enjoyable time meeting and discusiing the things we did at the museum saturday. I was hoping that I would meet you there, Knun it was nice to meet you as well. The guy who was showing us the stones after you guys left, I told him that I had actually been there twice to photograph the stones and that I lost the cd's I had the photo's on. He was nice enought to move the stones on the table so I could photograph them again no charge. I did however leave with about $50 worth of neat looking rocks for my rock hound wife, she really enjoyed some of the rocks I came home with, I kinda would have like to take the Peralta Stones home as well but that is another matter. They sure would look neat on my fireplace mantle along with all the other goofy s_ _ t I have. It sure is nice to share idea's and thoughts and talk to someone else about this who truly has the same interest as I do. Everytime I talk to my wife about this stuff she rolls her eye's at me and calls me " Indiana ".
Enjoyed our visit guy's
rochha
Picture of "Maps"
Having had a chance to examine (and even hold) the Stone Maps I felt compelled to take a closer look at some of the pictures which have been published once I returned home. One picture in particular seems to be the most interesting. It is the photograph of the stones on the bumper of a car. This photo was published in Dr. Glovers book, "Part 1: The Golden Dream" and can be found on page 337.
In this picture the dagger is missing from the stone with the heart shaped depression. Somewhere on this forum Joe has stated that he thinks this was added but the picture looks altered in this area. Almost as if it was erased with an eraser.
Another statement on this forum was that the "Priest" map was lying horizontal in the photo and the two other stones were stacked on top. After looking closely at the maps all of the corners of the "Priest" map were well rounded while the picture has square corners on the object which the other two maps are resting upon. The object looks more like a old piece of wood than the stone map.
Another question was if there is information on the edges of the maps. There are a few bits of information and continuations of lines but only on the priest map. None of which seems relavant at first glance.
I thought it was kind of interesting that the tape residue was still present at the locations which were covered over for the "Life" magazine shoot in the sixties. Has anyone noticed if the dagger is present in those pictures?
I also noticed that Dr. Glover's description of the maps is wrong. Just goes to show you that even the most meticulous and thorough can miss some details.
In this picture the dagger is missing from the stone with the heart shaped depression. Somewhere on this forum Joe has stated that he thinks this was added but the picture looks altered in this area. Almost as if it was erased with an eraser.
Another statement on this forum was that the "Priest" map was lying horizontal in the photo and the two other stones were stacked on top. After looking closely at the maps all of the corners of the "Priest" map were well rounded while the picture has square corners on the object which the other two maps are resting upon. The object looks more like a old piece of wood than the stone map.
Another question was if there is information on the edges of the maps. There are a few bits of information and continuations of lines but only on the priest map. None of which seems relavant at first glance.
I thought it was kind of interesting that the tape residue was still present at the locations which were covered over for the "Life" magazine shoot in the sixties. Has anyone noticed if the dagger is present in those pictures?
I also noticed that Dr. Glover's description of the maps is wrong. Just goes to show you that even the most meticulous and thorough can miss some details.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Correct
Knun,
You are, of course, correct. It does look like an eraser was used on the picture. I realized that a long time ago, but Dr. Glover did not comment on it, so I assumed the picture he received did not give that appearance.
I was the one who made the comment concerning the "stone" that the two trail maps were sitting on. I also believe it was a plank. Why not photograph the Priest Map? I think they did not have it. There are a number of clues that point to the creator of the Priest/Horse Map.
Dr. Glover has addressed the mistake he made in his description of the maps in a previous post.
You have made some good observations.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]
You are, of course, correct. It does look like an eraser was used on the picture. I realized that a long time ago, but Dr. Glover did not comment on it, so I assumed the picture he received did not give that appearance.
I was the one who made the comment concerning the "stone" that the two trail maps were sitting on. I also believe it was a plank. Why not photograph the Priest Map? I think they did not have it. There are a number of clues that point to the creator of the Priest/Horse Map.
Dr. Glover has addressed the mistake he made in his description of the maps in a previous post.
You have made some good observations.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Stone Maps
Knun,
Someone must have also erased the 2, 18, and 7 and changed some of the other features. Are The Stone Maps in the Mineral Museum the originals ? This is a issue Dr. Glover has had an opportunity to resolve since July and everyone knows that. It certainly does not help his credibility.You will have to make your own conclusions like the other members on the forum.
Someone must have also erased the 2, 18, and 7 and changed some of the other features. Are The Stone Maps in the Mineral Museum the originals ? This is a issue Dr. Glover has had an opportunity to resolve since July and everyone knows that. It certainly does not help his credibility.You will have to make your own conclusions like the other members on the forum.
TERRY - Update your email address. Current one is dead and you will not receive notices.
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Fakes?
Terry,
Since Dr. Glover has declined to answer your questions, I will.
If we assume that the picture on page 337 of Dr. Glovers book is a picture of the original Stone Maps, I believe we can draw the following conclusions with a certain degree of confidence.
1. The Stone Maps in the picture are not the Stone Maps in the Museum.
2. There have been a number of changes made to the maps in the Museum.
3. The trail maps in the picture are not setting on the Priest/Horse Map.
I am 100 % confident in the above conclusions. While I would not bet my life on those conclusions, I would bet the farm.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Since Dr. Glover has declined to answer your questions, I will.
If we assume that the picture on page 337 of Dr. Glovers book is a picture of the original Stone Maps, I believe we can draw the following conclusions with a certain degree of confidence.
1. The Stone Maps in the picture are not the Stone Maps in the Museum.
2. There have been a number of changes made to the maps in the Museum.
3. The trail maps in the picture are not setting on the Priest/Horse Map.
I am 100 % confident in the above conclusions. While I would not bet my life on those conclusions, I would bet the farm.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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dutch elm disease
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after many years of reading.. researching and looking into the lost dutchman tale ive come reluctantly to the conclusion that a. there are but a handfull(if that) of honest authors around( the only 2 i have any confidence in are blair and sikorsky) b. the new "revelations" that appear every so often are complete bullshit i.e the waltz bill of sale of 50 pounds of gold to his sister/mother in law watever in missouri....the gold supposedly under waltzs bed and the analysis of such which of course is utterly pointless when you cant ascertain if waltz ever possessed it or not...the two soldiers bullshit mine etc the list is endless...why oh why do people fall for it?. unfortunately for me my first introduction to the legend afflicted me when i was a mere sapling of 8 years of age...and of course at that age its all true...why? because its writtebn in black and white in a book ...so it must be true ..its not up for argument! by the time omne matures and realises that just because its in a book doesnt mean its true ,,its too late ..one is hooked. this is the curse that afflicts all of on here(myself included)
Life Magazine
Knun,
Do you happen to know what issue that was in the 60's about the Peralta Stones?
rochha
Do you happen to know what issue that was in the 60's about the Peralta Stones?
rochha