Travis Tumlinson

[alan m]

Hello Mike
You are right about putting faith in anything found on the tablets, especially after Clarence Mitchell possesed them for a time , however, the conversion works!
Is it a coincidence?
Best allways
Alan

[Somehiker]

Mike and Alan:
Could Tumlinson also have added the pointed upper section to the hat of the priest as well? Or Mitchell? Since that would also serve to mislead.

Regards:SH.

[alan m]

Hello Somehiker
I think we could play this game of trying to figure out whats real and what is not all day long.
My opinion is that travis added nothing to the tablets, all he had to do was say that he did, it would accomplish the exact same thing. People would doubt what they concluded.
I ask one question,
would you deface the tablets?
As I am sure you know from experience the same as I, at first you share nothing, then you share just a little bit, but in the back of your mind you long to confide in someone you can completly trust, a partner.
Travis admitted that he was looking for someone to partner with him and as you know, to partner with someone requires trust.
You cant have it if you fake markings on the map, even if you can rationalize your motive for doing so.
as for the priest hat, I think that it is authentic because there are a group of religous people in Seville Spain called the nazarcos, or something of the sort, just do a search for Seville Holy week and see the dudes with the pointy hats.
Best Regards
Alan

[Mike McChesney]

Alan,

The biggest problem with your statement is that Travis T never publicly made that statement. Only to a couple of very close friends. He was dead before that information even came out (about 1965 or so).

Paul,

A close look at the engravings might tell you all you need to know. As long as the stone maps have been in the public eye, there have been people saying that it looks like the stones have two sets of carvings on them. There may be a good reason for that.

Joe,

The reason I say Jesuit and not Franciscan is because the Franciscans have never had reason to hide anything on such a large scale. They could have paper/hide maps because they were never suppressed. They have grandiose churches just like the Jesuits.

The Franciscans have never had charges leveled against them like the Jesuits did. Notice that for all the Franciscans in the New World, you don't see all the stories of mining and wealth like are told about the Jesuits. Why is that? Actually, there are some stories about Franciscan Fathers owning mines, but there didn't seem to be any issues there.

Of all the Religious Orders operating in the New World, why is it, that ONLY the Jesuits were the subject of so many accusations? Maybe because where there's smoke, there's fire?

Best-Mike

[alan m]

Sorry Mike
But I fail to see the significance of weather Travis told one person or twenty
Alan

[alan m]

Mike
I forgot to ask you one thing
Where do you think the Horse / Priest tablet was found?
I know it may seem like I am beating a stone horse
Determining the truth about how they were found is crucial and you may be right, but a letter from someone, even Travis's best friend is not solid proof of anything except in that letters existance.
There were people who claimed to have seen Johnny Seel carve the tablets at the gas station where he sold them to Travis.
I do not believe that story but it comes to us as a first hand source.
Bear with me for a moment and consider that ever since Jacob Waltz claimed to have found the LDM, many people have been trying to discover its location, the same can be said of the Jesuit treasure hidden within the Superstitions. These people or I should say thier desendents could still be interested and could be behind the plethora of false leads and missinformation that plagues this topic.
You have cited a lot of evidence for the truth behind the story of how Travis discovered the tablets but the story itself STILL MAKES NO SENSE.
My investigation has uncovered evidence that is contrary to that story. My evidence may be faulty, but to find out it must be further investigated.
With all the letters and ideas from so many respected hunters, the LDM and the Jesuit treasure are still LOST and there is no reason to expect any new evidence to be forthcomming.
My interpretation of the tablets has lead me to discover an old spanish base camp, right where it should be according to the tablets, it may be a coincidence but it is very compelling evidence just the same.
Best Regards
Alan

[Mike McChesney]

Alan,

I put absolutely no stock in the Johnny Steele Story or any one of the other (at least) three stories of others who claimed to have found and sold the the stones to Tumlinson. He was the owner of them, and I choose to accept what he told both his wife, his uncle, and his good friends. Aileen Tumlinson told Mitchell the same story when she sold the stones to him after Travis died in 1961.

Personally, I think that the Jesuits, knowing the end was near, hid what wealth they weren't able to send overseas. They made the maps to guide them to the hiding places. The maps were hidden in the desert near where the first part of the wealth was hidden. The H/P Stone, along with the Heart Insert (and likely the Latin Heart) were hidden some distance away in a place that they had confidence would still be there after the Order was restored (however many years that may be). Maybe under the floor of a Mission or Church? The H/P Stone would tell you what is there, and where to find the Map Stones. Basically, the Cliff Notes of the treasure.

After the treasure was recovered, they unceremoniously dumped them together in a hole in the desert on their way back to Mexico. I think they didn't leave them where the treasure was because the Order has consistently denied the existence of any treasures, and the stones were less likely to be found in the desert in a hole than in a cave in the mountains.

Best-Mike

[Mike McChesney]

also,

I don't know that they recovered everything. What with the stories (very plausible stories at that) about a few caves of gold bars and a life sized golden statue of a priest (or whatever).

Mike

[alan m]

Hello Mike
Thank-you for the clear response
You mentioned the Jesuits hiding there treasure possiblly in the desert and I find that quite interesting.
I came across a book last week titled,"Enigma at Tumacacori" by Gary Don Oliver.
He states that he discovered Jesuit treasure signs and tunnels at and around the ruins of Tumacacori.
As I am sure you know, the main hub of Jesuit activity was Guevavi and the ares encompasses Tumacacori.
I have not read the whole book yet but it could support the notion of the existance of a Jesuit Treasure.
Best Regards
Alan

[Mike McChesney]

Alan,

I said:

The maps were hidden in the desert

Not the treasure, but the map stones.

As far as Tumacacori, I know Gary Oliver. He lives in Oregon and has been working on his site since about 1986. He has been going there since about 1979. Gary's fatal flaw is that he doesn't care about anything but DOWEL ROD HOLES in the rocks. He doesn't care about monuments or markings (other than the cross on the cliff).

If you got the book on Ebay, you bought it from him. Did you get the Picture CD? I have literally thousands of pictures of the different canyons around Tumacacori Mountain. If you get a chance, drive the Ruby Road from Nogales to Arivaca. Just be careful of Border Patrol and Illegals. If you drive it, you will see a ton of monuments and markings. There are even trees marked with crosses (this was the main route for Jesuit Fathers) along the Santa Cruz River. DO NOT GO THERE UNARMED! It's a place of rich history, but currently very dangerous.



Best-Mike

[alan m]

Thank-you Mike for the kind advise
I don' go into the Super's unarmed but unfortunatly I lack the intestinal fortitude to go anywhere near the boarder.
I would love to check it out though!
Best Regards
Alan

[Mike McChesney]

The South side of Tumacacori Mt is Peck Canyon where the Border Patrol Officer was recently shot and killed.

At my friend's claim site deep in the canyons, they always find remains of illegal campouts. I can't imagine going to those spots. We use Polaris 6x6 ATVs to get up there, and it requires using 6 wheel low gear range to get there. Even then it is a frightening proposition in a few spots.

Best-Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

You talking about the foot trail up to Camp Loco, or another location. Do you know the last time Gary was down there?

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

Joe,

He emailed me a couple of years ago saying that he was planning a trip, but I don't know if anything ever came of it.

There's only one trail up to Camp Loco from Peck Canyon Rd.

Most of my other friends spots are elsewhere around Tum. Mt.

Best Mike

[Mike McChesney]

Gary's biggest problem is that over the years, he has alienated and pissed off every Ranger and member of BLM. From what I have heard, they wouldn't do much for him any more.

Another issue is that there have been a few people claiming to be Garys partners (that weren't), who solicited money and held digs without Garys knowledge.

The whole Peck Canyon side of the mountain is all screwed up.

Mike

[Mike McChesney]

Mike,

You talking about the foot trail up to Camp Loco, or another location. Do you know the last time Gary was down there?

Take care,

Joe

Hey Joe,

Do you know the story about how Camp Loco got it's name?

Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

"Do you know the story about how Camp Loco got it's name?"

[One of the older stories regarding the area of Tumacacori Mt (Peck/Javelina Canyons) is that there is a hidden treasure there. The clues to find the treasure are: "On an Eastern facing cliff will be what looks like a large butterfly head on the right side. Follow the direction of the butterfly, and you will find a very narrow canyon. At the mouth of this canyon is a rock formation that looks like a tall skinny man. Go into this canyon and you will find a face on a cliff. This face looks right at where the treasure is buried."

Around the turn of the century, a black cowboy (nobody remembers his real name) after getting out of the military, moved to that spot to search for the treasure. He dug all over the place. Every day he dug he always saw a Big Horn Sheep watching him from cliffs above. Eventually, he started going a little nuts thinking that the Bighorn was the spirit of a dead Jesuit Priest. He shot and killed the Bighorn and eventually grew extremely remorseful over the killing. He never left that canyon. All his supplies were brought to him every couple of weeks by some cowboys from a nearby ranch. They saw how whacky he was getting and told the local sheriff. They all went back out to the camp and the cowboy attacked them forcing them to shoot and kill him.

From then on, the place was called Camp Loco.]

Yes......I think I read it somewhere.

Nice story.

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

HAHAHA

I found that in an old (1971) issue of (I believe) True West Magazine about 12 years ago.

I recently saw something about Chief Loco, but that is not true.

Every person or group that has occupied that canyon looking for the lost Jesuit Treasure is an interesting story.

Best-Mike