jim,
i think it was my fault the topic vered off course...i suggested it was odd that the hohokam did not work metal, while others cultures they had contact with for trade, did in fact work metal...the topic drifted from there.
sorry.
Yellow Jackets
This fall the thread is now sub named the Ogden Raptors.
Never heard of them. Kids are happy though..........they are expecting something akin to Jurassic park in design.
Fall 2008 kicks off November 8th
Had to put off this weekends practice though......
Never heard of them. Kids are happy though..........they are expecting something akin to Jurassic park in design.
Fall 2008 kicks off November 8th
Had to put off this weekends practice though......
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
Oz, the rabbit hole, and the lady
Hello Randy,
Interesting Question.
I am sure Captain Robson of the SS Jesmond would find it amusing.
One might find it a bit odd that the west gate of Circlestone lines up with the coordinates listed. And the coordinates are the location of Captain Robson`s discovery.
Pictures are only of value if one is ready to see. You have already posted on this site a picture that takes one straight to Oz.
Seems no one has yet seen it.
Mr. Zentull,
Good luck to you and your team.
Wonder how the Raptors would do against the Yellow Jackets?
Just curious, the Aztec word for water was ATL, probably nothing.
Gentlemen, have a good day.
Klondike
Interesting Question.
I am sure Captain Robson of the SS Jesmond would find it amusing.
One might find it a bit odd that the west gate of Circlestone lines up with the coordinates listed. And the coordinates are the location of Captain Robson`s discovery.
Pictures are only of value if one is ready to see. You have already posted on this site a picture that takes one straight to Oz.
Seems no one has yet seen it.
Mr. Zentull,
Good luck to you and your team.
Wonder how the Raptors would do against the Yellow Jackets?
Just curious, the Aztec word for water was ATL, probably nothing.
Gentlemen, have a good day.
Klondike
No Yellowjackets this season..........Charlston is far south as it goes this year. Kind of strange they keep retiring my old team names.
No Akron Aeros, Yellowjackets, LSU Tigers, Louisville Bats or Michigan Wolverines this year. In fact I don't think I have ever played one of my former teams.
No Akron Aeros, Yellowjackets, LSU Tigers, Louisville Bats or Michigan Wolverines this year. In fact I don't think I have ever played one of my former teams.
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
Gatekeepers
Gatekeepers: deified guardians of the pillar`s of Sekhet-Aaru,
Sekhet-Aaru: The Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Mistress of the World
You can see forever from Coronada Mesa. A thousand years in time, Circlestone to the east.
It is not that people have asked too much of the Superstitions it is they have accepted so little.
Now it is time to attend a sacred game.
Merry Christmas
Klondike
Sekhet-Aaru: The Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Mistress of the World
You can see forever from Coronada Mesa. A thousand years in time, Circlestone to the east.
It is not that people have asked too much of the Superstitions it is they have accepted so little.
Now it is time to attend a sacred game.
Merry Christmas
Klondike
Happy Thanksgiving!! Merry Christmas! Tell Ben I said hello. I'm gonna call him soon and see if I can't give him a little spook
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
little spooks
Hello Randy,
Hope you and yours have a happy holidays also.
I believe everyone will be at the sacred game in Athens this weekend.
After that I am sure he will welcome your call.
Always believed Coronado Mesa looked beautiful at Christmas.
Perhaps what is spooky is some hiker stumbling into something special.
There used to be a island very close to the Salt River in the NW portion of the range. A very special island. Not much left.
Klondike
Hope you and yours have a happy holidays also.
I believe everyone will be at the sacred game in Athens this weekend.
After that I am sure he will welcome your call.
Always believed Coronado Mesa looked beautiful at Christmas.
Perhaps what is spooky is some hiker stumbling into something special.
There used to be a island very close to the Salt River in the NW portion of the range. A very special island. Not much left.
Klondike
The Game
Hello Randy,
Good it is settled then.
Always wondered where Coronado Mesa got it name. Suspect it has something to do with the search for Eldorado.
It is a lot closer than one may think.
Perhaps the cross up there really is a gate. If one looks north from that particular location on Christmas day something special opens up. It always has.
Well have to spend a weekend with a lot of ghosts.
Happy Holiday.
Klondike
Good it is settled then.
Always wondered where Coronado Mesa got it name. Suspect it has something to do with the search for Eldorado.
It is a lot closer than one may think.
Perhaps the cross up there really is a gate. If one looks north from that particular location on Christmas day something special opens up. It always has.
Well have to spend a weekend with a lot of ghosts.
Happy Holiday.
Klondike
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Names......
Klondike,
It is likely that Coronado Mesa is an early 20th. Century appelation. It does not appear in John Gregory Bourke's notes, even though he traveled through the area extensively, and noted everything in his diaries.
The name probably appeared around 1916. Tom Kollenborn is a great source for historic names.
Joe Ribaudo
It is likely that Coronado Mesa is an early 20th. Century appelation. It does not appear in John Gregory Bourke's notes, even though he traveled through the area extensively, and noted everything in his diaries.
The name probably appeared around 1916. Tom Kollenborn is a great source for historic names.
Joe Ribaudo
Re: The Game
Now that is quite interesting. I'll see if I can make it up there this year.klondike wrote:
Perhaps the cross up there really is a gate. If one looks north from that particular location on Christmas day something special opens up. It always has.
Klondike
Joe,
I believe it got it's name from this man:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/a_c/coronado.htm
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Re: The Game
If you get up there Christmas day djui, take some photosdjui5 wrote:Now that is quite interesting. I'll see if I can make it up there this year.klondike wrote:
Perhaps the cross up there really is a gate. If one looks north from that particular location on Christmas day something special opens up. It always has.
Klondike
Joe,
I believe it got it's name from this man:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/a_c/coronado.htm
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- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Randy,
[Joe,
I believe it got it's name from this man:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/a_c/coronado.htm]
It goes against the historical records, but anything is possible....I suppose.
There are many good written accounts of Coronado's journey, but a very interesting book by Douglas Preston traces, on horseback, that grueling trip. IMHO, it doesn't get any more authentic than Preston's ride.....without going back in time.
Around 1916, it became very popular to rename a lot of landmarks with Spanish names. It gave the countryside a little more......flavor.
As I said, Tom Kollenborn can probably tell you exactly how Coronado Mesa got its name, but I am willing to bet that Coronado did not hang his name on the mesa.
Take care,
Joe
[Joe,
I believe it got it's name from this man:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/a_c/coronado.htm]
It goes against the historical records, but anything is possible....I suppose.
There are many good written accounts of Coronado's journey, but a very interesting book by Douglas Preston traces, on horseback, that grueling trip. IMHO, it doesn't get any more authentic than Preston's ride.....without going back in time.
Around 1916, it became very popular to rename a lot of landmarks with Spanish names. It gave the countryside a little more......flavor.
As I said, Tom Kollenborn can probably tell you exactly how Coronado Mesa got its name, but I am willing to bet that Coronado did not hang his name on the mesa.
Take care,
Joe
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Coronado Mesa.....
Randy,
I'll let you know what he says.
Take care,
Joe
I'll let you know what he says.
Take care,
Joe
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- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Coronado Mesa......
Randy,
I received Tom's reply this morning:
"Coronado Mesa was probably named during the Southern Pacific's concession on the Apache Trail. A very bright ticket agent by the name of Watson made a lot of name changes along the Apache Trail for the sake of their Spanish flavor around 1914, give or take a year. If Watson didn't name Coronado Mesa then I would guess somebody else associated with SP. James McClintock screamed about the name changes and entered it into the state legislative record. McClintock said Coronado was never near the Superstition Mountain area therefore nothing should be named after him in the area. I hope this helps you. There is a couple of periodicals that mention this around 1917-1918."
Tom has spent many decades researching the history of the Superstitions and the surrounding area. I will accept his words on that history...any day. Tom will be the first to say he has made some mistakes in his work, but the truth is, he works at correcting them on a regular basis.
Like all real historians, the truth is more important than the accolades.
Thanks for the question. Like those historians, the factual history is very important to me. Unlike them, I have never had the dedication to make it a full time job.
My thanks to Tom Kollenborn for his speedy and knowledgeable reply.
Take care,
Joe
I received Tom's reply this morning:
"Coronado Mesa was probably named during the Southern Pacific's concession on the Apache Trail. A very bright ticket agent by the name of Watson made a lot of name changes along the Apache Trail for the sake of their Spanish flavor around 1914, give or take a year. If Watson didn't name Coronado Mesa then I would guess somebody else associated with SP. James McClintock screamed about the name changes and entered it into the state legislative record. McClintock said Coronado was never near the Superstition Mountain area therefore nothing should be named after him in the area. I hope this helps you. There is a couple of periodicals that mention this around 1917-1918."
Tom has spent many decades researching the history of the Superstitions and the surrounding area. I will accept his words on that history...any day. Tom will be the first to say he has made some mistakes in his work, but the truth is, he works at correcting them on a regular basis.
Like all real historians, the truth is more important than the accolades.
Thanks for the question. Like those historians, the factual history is very important to me. Unlike them, I have never had the dedication to make it a full time job.
My thanks to Tom Kollenborn for his speedy and knowledgeable reply.
Take care,
Joe
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- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Oops......
Randy,
My pleasure.
Forgot to mention the name of Douglas Preston's book. It is:
"Cities of Gold: A Journey Across The American Southwest".
I have recommended it here before, but it remains high on my list for this kind of documentary. Preston made the effort to experience, as closely as possible, what the Coronado entrada went through.
His narrative of the trip is spliced in with the historical history of Coronado.
It makes for a fascinating read, all the time maintaining an accurate nexus with the historical records from the era.
You should be able to find a copy, and it's well worth the effort and price.
Take care, and have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Joe
My pleasure.
Forgot to mention the name of Douglas Preston's book. It is:
"Cities of Gold: A Journey Across The American Southwest".
I have recommended it here before, but it remains high on my list for this kind of documentary. Preston made the effort to experience, as closely as possible, what the Coronado entrada went through.
His narrative of the trip is spliced in with the historical history of Coronado.
It makes for a fascinating read, all the time maintaining an accurate nexus with the historical records from the era.
You should be able to find a copy, and it's well worth the effort and price.
Take care, and have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Joe
Mr. Watson
Mr. Ribaudo,
Thank you for developing the information concerning the naming of Coronado Mesa.
Imagine Mr. Watson was a very interesting young man. Somehow that name has something to do with all of this but for the moment it escapes me.
Not so sure the naming was as simple as has been suggested. Perhaps it was that simple.
Interesting to note that folks of that time knew that Coronado was not in the Superstitions. Of course there are the Spanish Artifacts that were discovered a ways back in the Fish Creek area by some locals, not us, that have been dated to the time of Coronado`s expedition.
And then there is the map that Coronado had that shows the Mesa that eventually would be called Coronado Mesa.
Who knows maybe a gatekeeper named that Mesa.
Have a great Holiday,
Klondike
Thank you for developing the information concerning the naming of Coronado Mesa.
Imagine Mr. Watson was a very interesting young man. Somehow that name has something to do with all of this but for the moment it escapes me.
Not so sure the naming was as simple as has been suggested. Perhaps it was that simple.
Interesting to note that folks of that time knew that Coronado was not in the Superstitions. Of course there are the Spanish Artifacts that were discovered a ways back in the Fish Creek area by some locals, not us, that have been dated to the time of Coronado`s expedition.
And then there is the map that Coronado had that shows the Mesa that eventually would be called Coronado Mesa.
Who knows maybe a gatekeeper named that Mesa.
Have a great Holiday,
Klondike
Just bought it for $15 Also got "Arizona's Ghost towns and mining camps" for a total of $25. Qualified me for free shipping. Merry Christmas to myself
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Free Maps
Hello Randy,
Didn`t realize the church was in such need of money but times are hard and if the extra pocket change helps why not. As with many maps this one only got Coronado into the general area anyway.
The map was created by our friends in Rome who used an ancient text found in Alexandria, a text written by Plato pointing back to the time of Solon and beyound.
Let`s see, Watson, Ely, Bark, Horse Mesa, Peralta Placer Operations, Bark`s Mine, Chunning, Barraca Grande, Coronado, seems a lot of folks were drawn into that area, and let`s not forget the stoning to death of the Spanish explorers by the locals. One might say the area is a virtual Disneyland.
Of course the one prize, well you know.
Hello Paul,
Understand you had an interesting visit to the Superstitions.
Amazing the folks you run into in those mountains.
One might say you encountered a way. People are the most importent maps, in their hearts one sometimes discover the truth sometimes other things.
You were closer to Oz than Coronada ever was.
The map originated in the Vatican. A copy still exists there. Another copy exists in Salt Lake City at the home of another church.
Then again it seems they are on ebay. Of course the writings of one of the religious folks who brought the map from Rome and was placed in Coronado`s expedition will point the way.
And last but not least are the symbols on Coronado Mesa that were created a long time ago. The symbols are preceded by a starburst.
Have to drop by the Etowah River on the way to the game and visit the
Battle Branch Mine. A lot of history there, a starburst or two.
Happy holiday to you and yours.
Klondike
Didn`t realize the church was in such need of money but times are hard and if the extra pocket change helps why not. As with many maps this one only got Coronado into the general area anyway.
The map was created by our friends in Rome who used an ancient text found in Alexandria, a text written by Plato pointing back to the time of Solon and beyound.
Let`s see, Watson, Ely, Bark, Horse Mesa, Peralta Placer Operations, Bark`s Mine, Chunning, Barraca Grande, Coronado, seems a lot of folks were drawn into that area, and let`s not forget the stoning to death of the Spanish explorers by the locals. One might say the area is a virtual Disneyland.
Of course the one prize, well you know.
Hello Paul,
Understand you had an interesting visit to the Superstitions.
Amazing the folks you run into in those mountains.
One might say you encountered a way. People are the most importent maps, in their hearts one sometimes discover the truth sometimes other things.
You were closer to Oz than Coronada ever was.
The map originated in the Vatican. A copy still exists there. Another copy exists in Salt Lake City at the home of another church.
Then again it seems they are on ebay. Of course the writings of one of the religious folks who brought the map from Rome and was placed in Coronado`s expedition will point the way.
And last but not least are the symbols on Coronado Mesa that were created a long time ago. The symbols are preceded by a starburst.
Have to drop by the Etowah River on the way to the game and visit the
Battle Branch Mine. A lot of history there, a starburst or two.
Happy holiday to you and yours.
Klondike
Re: Free Maps
klondike wrote:Hello Randy,
Didn`t realize the church was in such need of money but times are hard and if the extra pocket change helps why not.
Klondike
Very funny!
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari