Ron's Excavation
Ron's Excavation
After reading some of these posts, was wondering how Ron's excavation is going (went).
After reading Helen Corbin's first book and reading Walter Gassler's notes that I got from the SMHS, I had "guessed" that "if" a mine existed, it would be around Peter's Mesa.
I hiked into Peter's Canyon several times from the north end. Very impressive. I only went in as far as the large cave (hole) in the side of the mountain. I also have seen the "hole" that Tom Kollenborn has on one of his maps.
I'm not an avid Dutchman Hunter, but have been interested in the stories ever since I was a teenager.
I have hiked from Tortilla trailhead and out at First Water once. I went across Peter's Mesa and was impressed with the views there. I would have liked to have stayed an extra day there to explore, but my companions wanted to get down to Charleybois Springs before dark. Have not had a chance to get back up there.
After reading these posts, my curiosity has been peaked again.
So, does anyone know the results of the excavation at this point?
After reading Helen Corbin's first book and reading Walter Gassler's notes that I got from the SMHS, I had "guessed" that "if" a mine existed, it would be around Peter's Mesa.
I hiked into Peter's Canyon several times from the north end. Very impressive. I only went in as far as the large cave (hole) in the side of the mountain. I also have seen the "hole" that Tom Kollenborn has on one of his maps.
I'm not an avid Dutchman Hunter, but have been interested in the stories ever since I was a teenager.
I have hiked from Tortilla trailhead and out at First Water once. I went across Peter's Mesa and was impressed with the views there. I would have liked to have stayed an extra day there to explore, but my companions wanted to get down to Charleybois Springs before dark. Have not had a chance to get back up there.
After reading these posts, my curiosity has been peaked again.
So, does anyone know the results of the excavation at this point?
Reply
Hello, LDMFAN.
Ron probably ought to give us all an update. But, the last I heard there was a new legal twist slowing things down. I do not think anything has happened yet.
Regarding Peters Mesa and Walt Gassler... Yes, Walt and others were intrigued by the Peter's area. This includes Peters Canyon, the Mesa, and even Tortilla Mountain across the canyon. At one time or another just about everybody has been there and looked. But no LDM. These same searchers eventually all moved on to others areas.
That hike from Tortilla Flat up to Peters - and into Peters - is interesting and one tough rock climbing experience. There are some short cuts. But the area is still rough. Eventually you have to get down into the creekbed and "be 'one' with the rocks." I think most people poop out by the time they get to the cave. It is a good turn around spot.
S.C.
Ron probably ought to give us all an update. But, the last I heard there was a new legal twist slowing things down. I do not think anything has happened yet.
Regarding Peters Mesa and Walt Gassler... Yes, Walt and others were intrigued by the Peter's area. This includes Peters Canyon, the Mesa, and even Tortilla Mountain across the canyon. At one time or another just about everybody has been there and looked. But no LDM. These same searchers eventually all moved on to others areas.
That hike from Tortilla Flat up to Peters - and into Peters - is interesting and one tough rock climbing experience. There are some short cuts. But the area is still rough. Eventually you have to get down into the creekbed and "be 'one' with the rocks." I think most people poop out by the time they get to the cave. It is a good turn around spot.
S.C.
Each time I went into Peters Canyon, I went in from Tortilla Creek. The boulders there are huge! I managed to find a faint trail through the brush but it was still rough going. Has anyone in this forum gone past the large cave? I read somewhere that the sides of the canyon rise a thousand feet or more. I think "if" I go into Peters Canyon again, I will try and follow the trail on Kollenborn's map that actually starts past the entrance to Peters Canyon proper. I noticed a wall of rocks to the right of the main large cave (really just a big hole in the side of the mountain) in a smaller opening. I assume this is was erected in more recent times as there was a lot of trash around. Also, as you enter Peters Canyon, is the large mountain on the right side Geronimo's Head or Malapais? Looks alot different down in the bottom of the creek bed.
Reply
Yes. That is Geronimo Head there on the right. That trail on Tom K's map actually goes up Geronimo Head and proceeds pretty close to the top over Geronimo to Malapais. Going that way would by-pass the cave.
I am sure there are hardy hikers who have gone all the way down Peters - Jack Carlson is one who comes to mind. But, I know some other hard-core hikers who have tried and were worn out by the time they got to the cave.
I am sure there are hardy hikers who have gone all the way down Peters - Jack Carlson is one who comes to mind. But, I know some other hard-core hikers who have tried and were worn out by the time they got to the cave.
Hello.
No, S.C, nothing has happened yet, nothing really noteworthy anyway.
I don't think I've been designate the official spokesperson for the excavation, but I do have the honor of being the official scribe of said project.
I'll just say that because of the relative novelty (and the possibilities of what could be found) of this excursion, it's attracting the attention of odd government branches that seem to have nothing better to do with their time and resources than to see if it even pertaind to them (!), and then if there's anything they can possibly to do add obstacles! LOL
Well, snide remarks aside, I can say that the commencement of the excavation is getting closer; I know Ron's waited through a lot of impediments, put up with a lot of drama, and has kept cool and persistent. So unless they start inventing new government agencies specifically to thwart this, hehe, they've gotta run out of paperwork and roadblocks!
Last word I heard from Ron was "hopefully the end of the month" [December].
Will keep you all informed as to the progress. Thanks for being patient.
nick h
No, S.C, nothing has happened yet, nothing really noteworthy anyway.
I don't think I've been designate the official spokesperson for the excavation, but I do have the honor of being the official scribe of said project.
I'll just say that because of the relative novelty (and the possibilities of what could be found) of this excursion, it's attracting the attention of odd government branches that seem to have nothing better to do with their time and resources than to see if it even pertaind to them (!), and then if there's anything they can possibly to do add obstacles! LOL
Well, snide remarks aside, I can say that the commencement of the excavation is getting closer; I know Ron's waited through a lot of impediments, put up with a lot of drama, and has kept cool and persistent. So unless they start inventing new government agencies specifically to thwart this, hehe, they've gotta run out of paperwork and roadblocks!
Last word I heard from Ron was "hopefully the end of the month" [December].
Will keep you all informed as to the progress. Thanks for being patient.
nick h
Ron's excavation
Thanks, Nicoh.
Nicoh about summed everything I could say. I have talked with the Forest Service yesterday, and they are still saying the end of this month. With this project, there is only one way to handle it, and that is not to make the powers to be mad at you. That is a delicate balance , when dealing with a totally different mind set, but I will say that I feel they are behind this project and have a positive attitude. This is new ground for them , and they have to be sure all is in the right order.
Good point Peter, about it was and is much easier going over top of Geronimo than down Peter's. When I worked for Jake , I hiked almost three quarters of the canyon, I should say boulder climbed , rather than hiked. I have posted before that I had interests for years on top of Geronimo, so I hiked up often, once even riding horseback with Tom on top of Geronimo. This route was surely used alot to get to the River in the past. I believe that is the reason why alot of interesting things have been found along the trail over Geronimo, Malapais, and Peter's. The finding of such things as Kochera's Gold , etc. I won't go on, because other things , others know about ,are secret, have stemmed the interest in many to hunt there.
Nicoh about summed everything I could say. I have talked with the Forest Service yesterday, and they are still saying the end of this month. With this project, there is only one way to handle it, and that is not to make the powers to be mad at you. That is a delicate balance , when dealing with a totally different mind set, but I will say that I feel they are behind this project and have a positive attitude. This is new ground for them , and they have to be sure all is in the right order.
Good point Peter, about it was and is much easier going over top of Geronimo than down Peter's. When I worked for Jake , I hiked almost three quarters of the canyon, I should say boulder climbed , rather than hiked. I have posted before that I had interests for years on top of Geronimo, so I hiked up often, once even riding horseback with Tom on top of Geronimo. This route was surely used alot to get to the River in the past. I believe that is the reason why alot of interesting things have been found along the trail over Geronimo, Malapais, and Peter's. The finding of such things as Kochera's Gold , etc. I won't go on, because other things , others know about ,are secret, have stemmed the interest in many to hunt there.
Re: Reply
I see lots of references to Jack Carlson's books and the extreme hikes he has done. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Elizabeth Stewart (a very nice lady) also made all those hikes and co-wrote the book. For some reason she doesn't seem to get the press Jack gets, but she deserves it.S.C. wrote:I am sure there are hardy hikers who have gone all the way down Peters - Jack Carlson is one who comes to mind. But, I know some other hard-core hikers who have tried and were worn out by the time they got to the cave.
Ron's excavation
I just did log on and had a answer in when I lost my connection. I apologize for not answering sooner. I have been very busy during Christmas vacation. This in the horse business is the best of times. I 'm still working with the Forest Service , and it is getting very close I feel. I'm at their mercy and can only move at their pace. I will keep all on the forum informed and if there is any information I can impart to anyone in obtaining a permit , I will do do. There will be alot of information coming on ths site on the excavation once it begins, and I hope we can all learn something from it.
Ron's excavation
I finally was able to get that posted , before I got thrown off the web. Some after thoughts, that I should add, Some of the reason for silence is of course, not being able to divulge things until we have secured our final approval. All our people involved in this are in position and ready to go. I'm actually talking to the Forest Service as to moving my camp in . So we're pushing forward.
By the way as a little side note, on the posts on Waggoner. In the 1960's, I knew a man named Waggoner , who claimed to be the direct descendant of the Waggoner who was the man with the gold seen getting on the stage. The man I knew had the so called map from his relative. As I remember it put you some where around Red Tanks area. Now that was a long time ago, but I believe that is where it took you. This man that I knew, just disappeared one day and I never saw him again, which was strange as he would spend alot of time at my place. He would always walk into the mountains. I do believe he may have been related and the map was good, but this man was also of dubious character.
By the way as a little side note, on the posts on Waggoner. In the 1960's, I knew a man named Waggoner , who claimed to be the direct descendant of the Waggoner who was the man with the gold seen getting on the stage. The man I knew had the so called map from his relative. As I remember it put you some where around Red Tanks area. Now that was a long time ago, but I believe that is where it took you. This man that I knew, just disappeared one day and I never saw him again, which was strange as he would spend alot of time at my place. He would always walk into the mountains. I do believe he may have been related and the map was good, but this man was also of dubious character.