Adolph Ruth, the mystery.

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Post Reply
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Post by djui5 »

Randy

It is more likely that the Mexicans travelled thru the relative safety of the open desert and entered the mountains via the First Water area. They had workings in the Goldfield area, camps near First Water and their pack trains would not be so prone to ambuscade as they would travelling up say Hieroglyphic or Peralta Canyon.

P

Makes sense and I believe cuts a bit of the range from being a possibility for the location of the LDM :)
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Cut Down To Size?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

It's a good theory. If you believe it's true, what part of the Superstitions seems to have been lessened as a location? East of Parker Pass, West Boulder, Needle Canyon or even Peter's Mesa?

What if they were just trying to get out of the interior, and took that wide'assed valley out to the Massacre Grounds? There is no place in the interior that can be traveled to or from, without passing through ambush sites.

Let's say you were in Aylor's Caballo Camp. Remembering there were no real (maintained) trails back then. You want to get to Goldfield. How would you go to avoid not being packed into a bunch of tight spots? Same question, except now you start from Willow Spring.

Joe Ribaudo
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wiz
Expert
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:55 am

Post by Wiz »

Given the known fact that Adolph did not have a clue about the location of the LDM, why do you think he was taken to Willow Springs as opposed to say Charlyboy or Bluff Spring for example?
That's an interesting angle. For that matter, did Ruth have any idea where he actually WAS taken? Did he know he was at Willow Spring? Maybe he actually wanted to go to Charlebois and was told that's where he was.
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

?

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wiz
Expert
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:55 am

Post by Wiz »

LDM

Very good points on the Apache/Ambush thing.



Wiz

I recall that Ruth asked two things

1) Was there a sharp peak?

2) Was a spring nearby?

It was BARKLEY who surmised this meant Willow Spring. This, of course, meant Ruth was taken to the Willow Spring area following Barkleys advice and NOT his own.

P
So, this would suggest that Ruth didn't really know where he wanted to go.
Understandable, really; I've been in there before with definite plans of attack, only to find the terrain far different than the maps suggested and myself doing things I hadn't planned to do. I'll bet the reality of the mountains was a real slap to poor Adolph.
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

?

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Ruth and Tex

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Ruth's camp at Willow Springs

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Truth?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Funny how we accept the report of the conversation between Ruth and Tex Barkley as the truth, and yet we know that the whole story is surrounded by doubt and possible deception.

No one thinks that P.C. Bicknell also going to Willow Spring is more than chance? Both had information that was not public knowledge then, and is still not known today..... Or is it? My guess is that we will not be waiting too long for Ruth's notes to be made public.

Joe Ribaudo
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

?

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Ruth's camp

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

?

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
eldorado
Part Timer
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:48 pm

Ruth

Post by eldorado »

Ruth was going to a covered Peralta Mine in West Boulder Canyon, high up on the east side.


E.
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Where Did You Come From?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

E,

You have won the prize. That is exactly right.

That being the case, and I happen to know that it is, the old man knew right where he wanted to be. A thermos was all he needed to make that climb.

That also brings Tex, and his entire story into question.

Trouble is......no way to prove any of it. Yes, the mine is there.....no, it is not the LDM. If some of the folks who are tripping all over this story, start to look at it from another perspective, that being that Ruth was not a functioning Idiot, they will see the real story. That is not the one everyone has been spoon fed. Only one who really made a mistake here, was Sims Ely.

The real problem is, most Dutch Hunters know everything and don't really care what others have to say........that is, unless they are saying YUP and nodding their heads. :lol:

That mine has a modern-day claim marker.

Joe Ribaudo
TC ASKEY
Part Timer
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:24 am
Location: STRAWBERRY,ARIZONA

Post by TC ASKEY »

Joe, Would you care to offer a " Name " to go along with that modern day claim marker or are you saving that for a later date ?
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

No Name

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Terry,

Sorry......I have no name for you, or the Forum. As you know, that has nothing personal to do with you. If I had the name, I would give it to no one. If anyone is interested enough to go there, It is south of Willow Spring.

Take care,

Joe
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Was It Something I Said?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Terry,

What happened to all the Adolph Ruth experts? Oh yeah! Monday Night Football. :lol:

Now if Mr. Reynolds is looking in, he will be pleased to know what the real story of Adolph Ruth is. He knew it all along, but I was not at liberty to confirm it before now. My thanks to Mr. E, whoever he is.

Adolph knew more than any of the experts of today, and he was not doing any hiking up to Bull Pass. In truth, he did find the mine he was looking for, was killed for the contents, and the killers left an empty hole in the earth.

The only real puzzle here, is who killed him? If a man would kill another man for walking in the wrong place, how would he feel about a man sitting on a gold mine......so to speak?

Anyone know how much time Tex spent looking south of Willow Spring. Oh yeah, he followed his tracks north.

After packing Ruth into the mountains, is it possible that Purnell and Keenan were driving around in the dead man's car......celebrating future wealth? If they got their burros from Tex's stock, would they need to be working for him, or at least have his permission?

You old timers who have know Ron Feldman since he came out from back east, been friends the entire time, would you go over and cut out five of his animals for a little trip into the mountains without his permission? :lol:

Time to go watch the game.

Take care,

Joe
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Re: Was It Something I Said?

Post by djui5 »

After packing Ruth into the mountains, is it possible that Purnell and Keenan were driving around in the dead man's car......celebrating future wealth?

Joe

I've always wondered why Purnell and Keenan were kept under wraps so to speak. No-one seems to want to talk about them much.

I mean, to me personally, I can find no other person who would be higher on the suspect list than these 2. No-one.

Joe,
How do you know the story you tell in your post is true? It's a very interesting story, and is one I'd readily believe. I haven't thought that he had actually found the mine and was killed for the contents, but that would make even more of a reason for killing him and moving his body (not a hard task if you have a horse/mule).

Football is over-rated :lol:
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

How Do It Know?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

I watched very little of the game, watched the news mostly.

How do I know? No one can be 100% sure, 'cept Peter, but what bothers you about the story that has always been accepted as "the truth"?
Why do you suppose we are still debating it today. Why did Matthew need to start a new topic on something we have already discussed to a standstill? Why did Peter need to start another topic about the cave of gold bars when one already existed?

It's called SUBTERFUGE. We will start some new topics, with only one real motive.....Try to make enough noise so no one will really know what it's all about. With all that brain trust working, they had to use my old topic's. :lol:

Same thing took place when Ruth went into the mountains. [I am worried about the poor old man. Why did those idiots pack him in there? I will ride in at once and make sure he is not dead, even though it's unlikely he will walk far, or even get out of sight of all that water. Course he couldn't even find the outhouse..... :lol: :lol:]

Personally, I never bought that story....from the first time I read it. That would have been around 47 years ago.

How do I know what I wrote is true, I don't.
What I do know, for a fact, is that Adolph Ruth was not the idiot that everyone has painted him as being. He did not arrive at Willow Spring by chance. He did not get packed in from Second Water Ranch......Read his letter. He did not find the Cactus Marker, the markings on Black Top or leave West Boulder Canyon alive. Read Sims Ely again. He made a mistake in his story that could not be erased.

These are all things I have been saying......forever, well it seems like forever. :lol:

I have been around this story and going into those mountains for a long time now. I am not nearly as smart or knowledgeable as some of my "friends" here, but I am smart enough not to go digging in a protected archaeological site, let someone take pictures of the entire thing, and then send out e-mails talking about our little adventure. :?

But then I'm just another one of those stupid old timers who knows nothing and that no one ever listens to. I am just smart enough to have never looked for the LDM. Perhaps if I had moved out here from somewhere on the East Coast, say Boston, I might feel differently. :lol:

Got to head for the heating pad. Thanks for talking to me. :)

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Ruth's mine

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

?

Post by TGH »

:?:
Last edited by TGH on Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
eldorado
Part Timer
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:48 pm

Ruth

Post by eldorado »

Ruth was not a fool. Tex was not a saint.

Ruth found what he was looking for.

Then the fun began. Ended in New York.


Mr. Ribaudo,

Your analysis is the correct one. Almost




E.
Last edited by eldorado on Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
azmula
Part Timer
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:45 am
Location: Glendale

Direction to Water

Post by azmula »

Deleted
Last edited by azmula on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TC ASKEY
Part Timer
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:24 am
Location: STRAWBERRY,ARIZONA

Post by TC ASKEY »

eldorado, Care to explain the " Ended in New York ' part of your comment ?
Post Reply