Lights on the Needle

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:57 pm

Twenty or so years ago we were camped in a little saddle to the west of Piper Spring, and noticed a campfire below us back towards the Needle. All six or so of us trooped down to gab. A man in his late fourties to mid fifties, as a guess, was there with his wife. She was a class looking lady with a fur hat on. I don't remember their names, but they welcomed us all to their fire and put more water and coffee grounds into the pot. They both rolled their smokes with one hand, and we made Supe talk. He told us he was in the mountains to write a book on his experiances. He had worked with Ed Piper a number of years earlier. He told us they had all sat in Ed's camp one night and suddenly noticed lights moving up the north side of the Needle, a lot of lights. They went up the side half way or so and appeared to go into a cave. Later they came out and went back down. He swore it happened just that way. They later tried to find the cave and, you guessed it, no such critter.
He mentioned that Ed had made his deal with the Apache, and had to leave the mountains during a specific time of the year. One year he decided to hide and see what they were up to. He hid high up on the ridge to the west of the Needle. While he was there, two Apache just happened to walk up on him, and escorted him out of the mountains. I have often wondered who that gentleman with the classy lady was. Any of you old timers have an idea? Perhaps it was one of our members. If so, I would love to say hello.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:00 am

There is a story that Celeste Maria Jones saw people on the top western face of Weavers Needle in the late 50s/early 60s flitting in and out of cracks or caves. They were moving treasure around to make sure it wouldnt be stolen...of course.

I wonder if this story was somehow passed on to Pipers people (or vice versa) and the tale simply grew in the telling... throw in "lights on the needle" and some
Apache sentinels for good measure and one has a bonafide Superstition tall tale...lol

S.C. · Post by **S.C.** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:21 am

You might be right, Peter. It could be another tale that grew with time... Never-the-less, it sound like the sort of thing nicoh (Nick Holthaus) would be interested in.

Speaking of tales... this brings to mind the story of Maria Jones and the bag of gold crosses she and Louie buried in the mountains somewhere. I wonder if there is any truth in it?

nicoh · Post by **nicoh** » Thu Oct 10, 2002 11:42 pm

Hehe, thanks for thinking of me. Yep, I'd heard of the lights before, but was never really interested--just not enough ghost power, I guess

Now, if they were willow-wisps or something...
Speaking of tall tales, we'd talked earlier about a mythical race of pygmies in the Sups, and I just wanted to report that I've found several occurrences of "little people"-some supernatural-in many different cultures, including the Crow's "little people" of the Pryor mountains. Seems this is a common fairy tale, especially when it comes to guarding something.
Well, I gotta admit, S.C., I'm not sure I can figure out who you are going by just your initials! So, you know who I am...care to do me the honor? Might even be good to try a private message, since I've not messed with it on this forum.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:35 am

You are correct. There are "little people" tales in many cultures throughout the world...particuarly northern Europe, Africa, Southeast Asia
and the Amerindian cultures of both north and south America. Same goes for "big people" tales. Amerindian folklore is particuarly rich in these stories. Course these big folks tend to be hairsute and smell pretty bad.....

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 9:20 am

Little People stories: this is interesting. I've seen some of the structures supposedly built by the Menehune (little people) in Hawaii. Why do all these isolated, unrelated people have similar stories like this? Hmmm.

Joe Ribaudo · Post by **Joe Ribaudo** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 9:58 am

Wiz,
You may find some possible answers to your question in a book by Graham Hancock. If you have not read it, try Fingerprints of the Gods.
Hancock does offer an explanation as to why there are so many similar legends thruout the world. In short, an advanced seafaring civilization that existed before our recorded history and explored the entire earth. If that sounds farfetched to you, get the book.

nicoh · Post by **nicoh** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:03 am

Good recommendation Joe. Graham is great in this "realm" in that he really digs into the specifics of these pandemic myths, going as far as to include copies of military memos of certain inexplicable topics.
I would also recommend the grandaddy of all cultural mythology, Joe Campbell. The documentary on him a few years ago on PBS was one of the most riveting thigns I've ever seen. His writing is sometimes pretty dry and heavy, but it does Jung justice on the "hows" and "whys" of the apparent necessity for all of us "to have something to believe in," from Aboriginees to us Dutch Hunters, hehe.
Cheers.
n

S.C. · Post by **S.C.** » Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:32 am

Good point. In some ways the LDM legend is not too different. It is similar to many items resulting from the culturally inherent need to have "mysteries" - such as big feet, little people, UFOs, spirits/ghosts, and unattainable treasures (i.e., towers of Babels, holy grails, golden fleeces, genies, arks of the covenents, and the like).

That is why many are attracted to such things. However, I think the LDM has a little more basis in reality than some of the other things. But the same subconcious needs that make those things interesting also attarct us to something like the LDM.

Lost Dutchman Goldmine