Walter Gassler mystery.

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Post by TGH »

Zentull

Walters sample did not necessarily have to come from Tex. Think about it:he scoured Peters Mesa off and on for over 40 YEARS. If the Mesa was only a way station between the mines further east and Marsh Valley, as some beleive, there was still bound to be a piece or two laying around somewheres, particuarlly in the vicinity of the old arrastra sites....

Walter was no dummy....and from what I have pieced together his manuscript wasnt the whole story he could tell.....

P
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What?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

Are you saying you think that Walt thought he needed that sample in case he ran into a mine or vein?

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Post by TGH »

To match the vein with the particular sample, yes.

If they match...well thats where the sample came from. If they DONT match...well, looks like theres more than one mine around here .......
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Patience

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

Thank you for your patience, and your reply.

I have a clearer picture of Walt Gassler now.

Thanks again,

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Post by djui5 »

To match the vein with the particular sample, yes.

If they match...well thats where the sample came from. If they DONT match...well, looks like theres more than one mine around here .......
Makes sense, if Walt had a piece of the deathbed ore, and believed that ore came from the LDM in the supers, that he would carry a piece with him so if/when he found the LDM he could prove it.
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Post by TGH »

I do not believe he had a sample of "deathbed" ore.
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Post by zentull »

From the manuscript it would appear that he had little to do with Brownie and that line of thinking. If you follow the manuscript you would note that he seemed to follow along with what Herman and Tex told him, it was later that he became more acquainted with the Holmes manuscript. At least that is how it appears.
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Herman Petrasch

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

If you know what Bob Garman says Herman told him, you might start to doubt some of the stories you read. Lots of smoke and mirrors in the entire legend.

The question might be asked, how much of Walt Gassler's manuscripe is fact? It does fly in the face of what some believe. I would accept the word, normally, of someone I know, rather than an author trying to piece together a book. Normally, I believe, a manuscript is a prelude to a book. Could be wrong.

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Post by zentull »

I believe in this case the reference of manuscript is not correct. It just is easier than calling it a 50 odd page letter. I believe Herman and Rhiney both would have a good laugh at the information attributed to them over the last hundred years. As I said before it would be nice for someone to actually tell their stories, than to tell a story. Walter Gassler could have written an excellent book. Would anyone really believed in him ?
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Bob Garman

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

Actually I was speaking of what Bob Garman tells us he was told by Herman. The way he tells it, sounds like the two of them were pretty close. He does have pictures. :) You would have to read the book to know what I am talking about.

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Post by djui5 »

I do not believe he had a sample of "deathbed" ore.
Following that line of thought, it would throw a lot of stones at Kollenborns "Son knocked on my door with deathbed ore" story...
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Post by zentull »

Joe,

I am quite sure its in a box with some other books. I will get out to it when the sun goes down. I only have so many high shelves and the kids like to color in my books. Pretty sure I know what your talking about, but I will check to make sure.

Randy,

Tom Kollenborn is one of the few famous dutch hunters I have met. The first time I met him I asked what were probably some pretty stupid questions, he was very nice and took his time answering them. That he would take his time with some kid and treated my questions so serious goes a long way in my book as far as his character is concerned. His books are among the more well written on the Superstitions as well in my opinion.
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Post by djui5 »

Randy,

Tom Kollenborn is one of the few famous dutch hunters I have met. The first time I met him I asked what were probably some pretty stupid questions, he was very nice and took his time answering them. That he would take his time with some kid and treated my questions so serious goes a long way in my book as far as his character is concerned. His books are among the more well written on the Superstitions as well in my opinion.
Thanks. I have his "A ride through time" book, but haven't read through it all yet. Been busy with my head stuck in Ely's book :)

I've heard nothing but good things about him, and didn't mean to imply anything with my post. It was a "what if" scenario. I appoligize if I ever offend anyone. Just asking questions and proposing theories. Nothing is set in stone :)

Thanks for the reply. Would have been an honour to meet someone like that.
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WALTER GASSLER

Post by dutchman49 »

LDM MATTHEW THANK YOU FOR THE POST . IT CLEAR THE TIME LINE UP AND IT ALSO MAY ME THINK TO GIVE THE MAN THE BENEFIT OF DOUBT
.THAT IS MY THOUGHT EVERYBODY ELSE THAT HAS KNOWN OR SPOKEN WITH CHUCK KENWORTHY MUST JUDGE FOR HIMSELF. DUTCHMAN49 AKA RICARDO
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Post by TGH »

Randy

I beleive what Tom K said was that the samples LOOKED LIKE some of the ore believed to be deathbed ore.

I am not a trained geologist, but much of the ore that has come out of the Superstitions...particuarly ore that has come out of on particular area, looks very much the same to my untrained eye. I have seen and held various samples...Kochera, deathbed, Camp Ore etc and they all look pretty much the same. If Walter did indeed find some pieces of Camp ore lying around, (which is where I think it is likely that he got his samples) they would have looked similar to the other ores that have come from the interior of the mountains.

Some folks still beleive to this day that there are no mines in the interior of the mountains.

They are wrong.
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Re: Taking Rocks In?

Post by walker12 »

[quote="Joe Ribaudo"]Peter,

Why take any sample in at all? Mr. Gassler was no dummy. If he found an outcroping of gold ore, would he pull his sample out.....No match? I'm out of here. :lol:


Joe Ribaudo[/quote]

Sure, if he is staring at the vein from inches away he could see the gold (i.e. doesn't really need the sample except to prove to himself he is on THE site). However with a vein sample one might be able to recognize the vein from dozens of yards away. Could also be the type of rock, or rock formation, that vein is likely to be found in is visible to the trained eye from hundreds of yards away. Point being the sample might help direct someone to the final area not just confirm they are already standing there.
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Post by djui5 »

Randy

I beleive what Tom K said was that the samples LOOKED LIKE some of the ore believed to be deathbed ore.

I am not a trained geologist, but much of the ore that has come out of the Superstitions...particuarly ore that has come out of on particular area, looks very much the same to my untrained eye. I have seen and held various samples...Kochera, deathbed, Camp Ore etc and they all look pretty much the same. If Walter did indeed find some pieces of Camp ore lying around, (which is where I think it is likely that he got his samples) they would have looked similar to the other ores that have come from the interior of the mountains.

Some folks still beleive to this day that there are no mines in the interior of the mountains.

They are wrong.

Ahhh, thanks Peter :)

I agree about mines in the area. I'm about 90% positive there are mines up there 8O
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Das Vein

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Walker,

I would agree with you, if the LDM was some kind of exposed vein. Are we leaving the Pit theory for something else? One thing that keeps coming back, is that Waltz said you have to be on top of it to see it....or something like that.

Am I the only one that finds it strange that two men who were closely associated with the events that surrounded the death of Walter Gassler,
did not even mention the mans name in their books? It's not like it's a boring story.

Don't believe I have ever know a single man who packed gold ore into the Superstitions, so he could see if it matched what he 'believed" was Dutchman ore when he found the mine, or found a piece laying on the ground.

Any prospector making such a find, would pretty much do what anyone else with experience in the field would do.

All of the above, except for the packing ore into the Supes part, is just another opinion. Let's not get crazy again.

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Post by TGH »

>>Don't believe I have ever know a single man who packed gold ore into the Superstitions, so he could see if it matched what he 'believed" was Dutchman ore when he found the mine, or found a piece laying on the ground. <<

And your point is ......................?
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Re: Das Vein

Post by djui5 »

Am I the only one that finds it strange that two men who were closely associated with the events that surrounded the death of Walter Gassler,
did not even mention the mans name in their books? It's not like it's a boring story.
Joe Ribaudo

Joe,
Maybe they did it out of respect for the family? Maybe the family wanted to keep things quiet overall.

Just a thought.
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Perhaps

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

I did consider that possibility, but if that were the case, I doubt the family was doing much reading on the LDM. Gassler died in May of 1984. Don Shade's book came out in 1994, Kollenborn's book in 1981. That would answer my question as to Kollenborn. What you say makes perfect sense in Kollenborn's case.

Reprints have been done fairly frequently for Kollenborn's book, but it would seem that he never changed anything.

Shade, on the other hand FOUND THE BODY. If you consider the things the man told us in that book, it's hard to imagine him leaving that story out, or anything for that matter.

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Can't Tell

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sorry Peter, I just can't reveal that secret at this time. Those who know the facts.....know the facts. Others will just have to wonder....and wonder. :lol:

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Post by TGH »

Thats cool.

Thought you were going to say if you didnt know about it it couldnt possibly have happened.....but I just KNOW you would never say anything like that.

Glad to see the therapy is improving your disposition some..........


PS

Perhaps Don Shade left out the Gassler episode for the EXACT reason that he refused to tell who he thought the man was he saw near the body....FEAR FOR HIS LIFE............

I know that must have occurred to you and was right on the tip of your tongue.....
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Post by zentull »

Walter Gassler may have carried those samples as just a token of his friendship with Tex or some sort of keepsake that he had always had on him. Everybody has got a medicine bag, good luck charm or favorite stone they carry.


I do believe there is a mine or 2 out there, neverminding the pictures or the ones I have seen..............
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Not Enough Information?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

Sorry if my answer was to short. Didn't mean to dismiss your question.

I never realized that every post had to have a point :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ...Don't want to type Ha, Ha that many times.

For me, the point was that in 48 years, since I made my first trip into the Superstitions, I have never met the fool that carried ore into the Superstitions in a backpack. Let me take that a little farther.

If someone had ore from under the deathbed of Jacob Waltz, it would not be anything but the pick of the litter, so to speak. If he found a place that had the same kind of quartz, it would mean nothing.

If anyone had Waltz ore, it would have been Brownie Holmes. At that, he would have had "jewelry ore". Anyone else who claims to have LDM ore, and there are plenty of those people, should engender a little doubt, even from an old timer like you.

If all the "LDM" ore samples were gathered in one place, we could probably fill your pool with it.

I will be the first to admit, I have not seen nor talked to anywhere near the number of old timers that you have, but I can say what I have experience over the years.

Now it so happens, that I have a nice sized piece of death bed ore. As I am no longer going into the mountains, I will be happy to sell it to you, so that you can carry it in and match it up when you finally find the right place.

As for Don Shade: While you may be correct that he feared for his life, only one man in there at that time who almost everyone feared,
do you believe that no one knew that Shade found the body? As long as he says nothing about our darter, why should he be afraid? Of course you know the rest of that story.

If it was Jake, he went to prison in 1986, got out in 1990. By 1993 Jake was back in prison, released in one month and died a short time later. He was no longer a man to be feared at that time. Shade wrote his book in 1994.

Now I know you know all of this Peter, so I might ask.....What is your point? Someone else in there that warranted that kind of fear in a man like Don Shade?

Joe Ribaudo
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