Peter,
I assume you don't agree with the possibility that Walt Gassler died on his way into his camp. I appreciate the "evidence" you have offered, and the fact that you have given due consideration to my suggestions.
Walt left Second Water Trailhead on May 2nd. His body was found on May 4th. The M.E. stated, in his opinion, that when Gassler's body was found, he had been dead, "certainly more than a day-and-a-half, but not more than three days."
He came to that conclusion using the reports of the condition of the body when it was found. Your opinion is based on the information that "Bingo the Chimp" had used his camp. I don't say you are wrong, anything is possible, but I doubt they would use your opinion in a court of law.
This is still a good thread and has drawn a lot of interest, judging by the number of views it has gotten in a short period of time. If you would stick to the subject instead of blindly striking out at every comment I make, it would probably be able to go somewhere.
Anyone who knew Don Shade, know why he left this out of his book?
Joe Ribaudo
Walter Gassler mystery.
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Peter,
"If Gassler met someone and was packed in he would have set up camp on the afternoon of May 2nd."
That's a mighty big "If". Anyone who knows the story, is aware that Walt Gassler never rode a horse, other than when he was packed out of the mountains dead. You would also know that his "pack" was actually a rucksack. It did not slow him down. His "camp" was already cached in the grove.
Joe Ribaudo
"If Gassler met someone and was packed in he would have set up camp on the afternoon of May 2nd."
That's a mighty big "If". Anyone who knows the story, is aware that Walt Gassler never rode a horse, other than when he was packed out of the mountains dead. You would also know that his "pack" was actually a rucksack. It did not slow him down. His "camp" was already cached in the grove.
Joe Ribaudo
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WALTER GASSLER
I AM MOVING TO A NEW PLACE WHEN I FOUND AMONG MY DUTCHMAN INFO. A COPY OF A LETTER THAT I WROTE MR CHUCK KENWORTHY. CHUCK WRITES " I KNEW WALTER GASSLER - HIS CAVE CAMP WAS VERY CLOSE TO MINE . HIS " PLACE" WAS IN CHARLEBOIS CANYON.OUR MEN TOOK HIS BODY OUT " WAS THE CAMP ON PETERS MESA??? IS THE NEW CAMP A CAVE OR IS IT THE GROVE . MR CHUCK KENWORTHY SON ,TIGER KENWORTHY IS STILL ALIVE, MYBE HE HAS INFORMATION ABOUT WALTER DEATH FROM HIS FATHER . DUTCHMAN49 AKA RICARDO
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Kenworthy
Ricardo,
Kenworthy has long been a point of contention on this Forum. Some put a lot of stock in the man, others, like myself have voiced considerable doubt concerning his honesty.
You have now presented part of the contents of a letter from the man which Matthew, who I believe would know, has in so many words said could not be true.
It is never a bad thing when the truth comes to light. Thanks for sheding a little of that light on the Legend of Chuck Kenworthy. I am assuming that you could e-mail a copy of the perts of that letter which are pertinent to this conversation.
For the record, I am not asking you to do that. The reason I am not saying that Chuck Kenworthy was lying, is because I have no such proof.
That's why I said a "little" light. Just enough to cause a little doubt about the man. There are a few questions about him.
Joe Ribaudo
Kenworthy has long been a point of contention on this Forum. Some put a lot of stock in the man, others, like myself have voiced considerable doubt concerning his honesty.
You have now presented part of the contents of a letter from the man which Matthew, who I believe would know, has in so many words said could not be true.
It is never a bad thing when the truth comes to light. Thanks for sheding a little of that light on the Legend of Chuck Kenworthy. I am assuming that you could e-mail a copy of the perts of that letter which are pertinent to this conversation.
For the record, I am not asking you to do that. The reason I am not saying that Chuck Kenworthy was lying, is because I have no such proof.
That's why I said a "little" light. Just enough to cause a little doubt about the man. There are a few questions about him.
Joe Ribaudo
I have a letter around here, written by Kenworthy who tells of an experience he had on top of Peters Mesa. I beleive this incident took place in the late 70s, but might have been early 80s.
Kenworthy was on the northern face of Charlyboy (Black) Mtn when he heard the sounds of hammer hitting rock. It seemed to be coming from the direction of Old Squaw Canyon, but he couldnt find the source of the sound from the spot he was in. He eventually worked his way onto a ledge, came around a rocky corner... and there was a man with a rock hammer, happily sitting on a ledge above a precipice over LaBarge Canyon, pounding rock, without a care in the world.
The man with the hammers name was Walter Gassler.
Kenworthy was on the northern face of Charlyboy (Black) Mtn when he heard the sounds of hammer hitting rock. It seemed to be coming from the direction of Old Squaw Canyon, but he couldnt find the source of the sound from the spot he was in. He eventually worked his way onto a ledge, came around a rocky corner... and there was a man with a rock hammer, happily sitting on a ledge above a precipice over LaBarge Canyon, pounding rock, without a care in the world.
The man with the hammers name was Walter Gassler.
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WALTER GASSLER
IT IS VERY HARD AFTER SO MANY YEARS TO HEAR THAT CHUCK KENWORTHY WAS NOT THE MAN HE APPEARED TO BE ,THAT IS A MAN YOU CAN TRUST. TRUST IN WHAT HE SAYS 0R HAS DONE . I AM VERY SORRY FOR WHAT I WROTE HAS BEEN PROVEN NOT TO BE THE TRUTH AND THAT A MAN'S WORK FOR THIS IS NOW IN QUESTION. IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD WRITE THAT STATEMENT IN MY LETTER FOR HE HAD NOTHING TO GAIN. IT STILL LEAVES ME WONDERING WHY. MAYBE THAT IS WHY MY POST ARE SHORT AND FEW. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO FIND THE LDM WITH THE HELP OF OTHERS . I AM SHURE THAT ALL WOULD BENEFIT BY IT . FOR THIS REASON I WILL POST THE FIRST PAGE OF MY LETTER TO MR CHUCK KENWORTHY SO OTHERS CAN MAKE UP THERE OWN MIND IF OTHER INFORMATION THEY HAVE FROM HIM IS WORTH IT. TRUST, MAYBE THAT IS WHY THE LDM WILL NEVER BE FOUND DUTCHMAN49 RICARDO. PS I WILL POST IN A FEW DAYS , I AM STILL MOVING
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Trust
Ricardo,
It is never easy letting a dream die, or realizing that there was another man behind the man you believed in. Some will say that is the case with me.
It's better that you know the truth, and make the attempt to show it to the rest of us. Everyone will be the better for it.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
It is never easy letting a dream die, or realizing that there was another man behind the man you believed in. Some will say that is the case with me.
It's better that you know the truth, and make the attempt to show it to the rest of us. Everyone will be the better for it.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
Some of the discussion concerning various dutch hunters sometimes is less than golden. Thinking about this I wonder about Walt Gasslers manuscript and its purpose.
Walt had to know that some of what he wrote was inflammatory and could hurt peoples feelings. It should be noted he waited until those principle characters had passed on and did not note his confrontations or difficulties with others still living. By presenting this to Tom Kollenborn it would appear that he believed Tom would have an understanding of it. There are 3 people I have heard stories of in the mountains of who's character was beyond reproach, they were Tex Barkley, Walter Gassler and Al Morrow. I don't believe I ever heard a story that was demeaning or spiteful concerning any of them.
Is Gasslers manuscript one of those few genuine pieces of information in a maelstrom of lies and deceipt ?
Walt had to know that some of what he wrote was inflammatory and could hurt peoples feelings. It should be noted he waited until those principle characters had passed on and did not note his confrontations or difficulties with others still living. By presenting this to Tom Kollenborn it would appear that he believed Tom would have an understanding of it. There are 3 people I have heard stories of in the mountains of who's character was beyond reproach, they were Tex Barkley, Walter Gassler and Al Morrow. I don't believe I ever heard a story that was demeaning or spiteful concerning any of them.
Is Gasslers manuscript one of those few genuine pieces of information in a maelstrom of lies and deceipt ?
My vote would be yes.........but I think one has to understand that much of Walters manuscript was written at different times...decades apart in some cases...and as Walter evolved as a Dutch Hunter, so did his ideas about the mine. I have literally read and re-read Walters mauscript a good 30 times or so...maybe more (I'm dense so it takes a while for things to sink in)......so I know a little bit about where he was coming from.
The manuscript itself starts out with Gassler surmising that Waltz found a Mexican cache on Peters Mesa...that would be his early thinking on the mystery.
I know for a fact that during the latter part of Walters life he was not looking for just a cache......He KNEW there was a mine(s) involved....and was probably not more than a mile or two away from them...as the Raven flies, of course...
The manuscript itself starts out with Gassler surmising that Waltz found a Mexican cache on Peters Mesa...that would be his early thinking on the mystery.
I know for a fact that during the latter part of Walters life he was not looking for just a cache......He KNEW there was a mine(s) involved....and was probably not more than a mile or two away from them...as the Raven flies, of course...
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Demeaning Story?
Zen,
"There are 3 people I have heard stories of in the mountains of who's character was beyond reproach, they were Tex Barkley, Walter Gassler and Al Morrow. I don't believe I ever heard a story that was demeaning or spiteful concerning any of them."
One story shows Barkley in a pretty bad light. Believe it was written by Ron Feldman. Others have also speculated as to Barkley moving Ruth's body with less than reasonable reasons. Believe this story has been around many, many years.
At the very least, you would have to say they were demeaning, if not true. There is at least a chance that it could be true.
That should be enough to question and examine the evidence that is available to us.
Joe Ribaudo
"There are 3 people I have heard stories of in the mountains of who's character was beyond reproach, they were Tex Barkley, Walter Gassler and Al Morrow. I don't believe I ever heard a story that was demeaning or spiteful concerning any of them."
One story shows Barkley in a pretty bad light. Believe it was written by Ron Feldman. Others have also speculated as to Barkley moving Ruth's body with less than reasonable reasons. Believe this story has been around many, many years.
At the very least, you would have to say they were demeaning, if not true. There is at least a chance that it could be true.
That should be enough to question and examine the evidence that is available to us.
Joe Ribaudo
"Crooked mountain"? But this and the other stories are more opinion and speculation aren't they? Barry Storm had his run in with Tex, but still had high regard for him I was told. I was too young and never had the good fortune to meet Al Morrow, but those I was with never had enough nice things to say about the man. What I ascertained about Barkley was he was straight forward and very kind and welcomed everyone without reservation.
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I HAVE POSTED FOR A SHORT TIME THE LETTER CONCERING THE COMMENTS FROM CHUCK KENWORTHY IN THE MEMBERS ARCHIVE. SINCE THE MAN IS NOT HERE TO ANSWER AND THERE IS MAYBE A POSSIBLE EXPLANATION TO HIS COMMENTS, DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHO FOUND WALTER GASSLER BODY AND HELP TAKE IT OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT CHUCK KENWORTHY CAME BACK TO THE SUPERSTITION FOR A SHORT TIME IN 1984. I ASSUME THE SHERIFF WOULD HAVE THIS INFORMATION??? DUTCHMAN49 AKA RICARDO
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Who?
Ricardo,
If you read back through this topic, you will have the answers to your questions.
Joe Ribaudo
If you read back through this topic, you will have the answers to your questions.
Joe Ribaudo
All
I have corresponded a bit with the Gassler family. They do not live in Phoenix, are pretty close to me, in fact.
Never really got into the LDM with them, chatted more about Gassler the man, what his habits were, family etc etc. Walter was a pretty determined individual and could be relentless when he wanted to be (sounds like someone I know...lol) If you see my posts on the forum I always refer to him as Walter...his daughter-in-law told me that he prefered that to Walt..and was pretty much a stickler about it.
Jim is likely correct about the ore sample. Walter took samples INTO the mountains to compare them with to a vein if he happened to find one. Whatever ore was in the knapsack would not have been more than a handfull of samples Where those samples originated from I can not say for sure.
P
I have corresponded a bit with the Gassler family. They do not live in Phoenix, are pretty close to me, in fact.
Never really got into the LDM with them, chatted more about Gassler the man, what his habits were, family etc etc. Walter was a pretty determined individual and could be relentless when he wanted to be (sounds like someone I know...lol) If you see my posts on the forum I always refer to him as Walter...his daughter-in-law told me that he prefered that to Walt..and was pretty much a stickler about it.
Jim is likely correct about the ore sample. Walter took samples INTO the mountains to compare them with to a vein if he happened to find one. Whatever ore was in the knapsack would not have been more than a handfull of samples Where those samples originated from I can not say for sure.
P
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Taking Rocks In?
Peter,
Why take any sample in at all? Mr. Gassler was no dummy. If he found an outcroping of gold ore, would he pull his sample out.....No match? I'm out of here.
Something tells me he would have no trouble recognizing the LDM or bonanza ore.
Joe Ribaudo
Why take any sample in at all? Mr. Gassler was no dummy. If he found an outcroping of gold ore, would he pull his sample out.....No match? I'm out of here.
Something tells me he would have no trouble recognizing the LDM or bonanza ore.
Joe Ribaudo
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Good Point
Zen,
Really good point.
Joe Ribaudo
Really good point.
Joe Ribaudo