The Dutchmans Gold

[Joe Ribaudo]

"I SUPPOSE YOU'VE HEARD THAT HE TOOK MOST OF HIS GOLD BACK INTO THE MOUNTAINS?"

[Wiz]

I heard he left most ot it there to begin with.

[Joe Ribaudo]

That quote comes from someone who was alive during the Dutchmans life and knew him by sight and the stories in circulation at the time. She made the statement as if it were a well known fact of the times. Takes us back to the possibility that the gold could have come from the massacre grounds and Waltz simply hid it in the mountains. I was just trying to see if some other information to support this contention might come from the members. Any comments on this quote? I must admit it took me a long time to take notice of her statement.

[S.C.]

You have our interest up now. I am going to have to find out where you got that quote...

[S.C.]

Gertrude Barkley. (It took awhile... But I found it...)

Yes. Good point. She knew of Waltz when he was alive and she was a young girl. The notion Waltz had caches is a recurring theme to many sources close to Waltz. I am sure it was somewhat "common knowledge (gossip)" in late 19th century Phoenix. Both the Thomas/Petrasch camp and the Holmes camp believe Waltz had caches. Why? Because Waltz said he had them.

What was the source? Well, I really doubt it was massacre gold. But, it could have been mined ore from the same Mexican mining operation. However, those caches could have been built up from ore from the mine just as Waltz claimed they were.

It is hard to say.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Good job S.C. Only so many "she's" to choose from the Dutchmans time. I was a little suprised at the lack of serious reply to that quote. Why do you doubt the Dutchman got his gold from the massacre grounds? I believe he was at the site. A lot of evidence, which can be found by any reader of LDM history, has lead me to this conclusion. You will have to dig a lot harder to find this series of clues then you did for Gertrude Barkleys statement. They are fainter then the well worn trail leading to the Deering/Two Soldiers mine.

[S.C.]

I am sure anything is possible. It is just the body of information I have accumulated - an how I put it together in my mind - tends to make me think otherwise. Simply if there was a mine - and if there were caches - I tend to feel they are in such an area that it makes me doubt that Waltz would have found massacre gold and taken it to that area because it would have been so far away.

But, I have an open mind about things.

[Joe Ribaudo]

It is hard for us to relate to the people who were around in the Dutchmans time. They accomplished things we would not even attempt today. Think about crossing the country in a covered wagon. We get faint just thinking about driving that far. Waltz had nothing but time. Twenty-four hours a day, three hundred sixty-five days a year, without a single commitment. Eat, sleep and move gold. How far and in how rough an area would be secondary to how secure his hidding place was. I would have dug a hole on the western slope and called it a day. Waltz had already found his hidding spot before he found the gold. On a previous idyllic, winter vacation he had stumbled onto a perfect hideout - so high and so rough, he knew he would never find any stubbed out smokes or rusted bean cans there. Would a cave on the south end of Bluff Spring Mountain be to far or to rough for a man like Waltz? Maybe so. Where would you, draw his line? We have all placed the LDM in an area confined to the restrictions we have placed on it. Some find it impossible to step out of that box and consider the alternatives, even when we know some things just don't fit. A place almost impossible to reach today, may have been easier to traverse 150 to 200 years ago. That possibility opens up hundreds of places in the Supes, if true. Perhaps we keep rubbing elbows with ghosts in our search, because like them, we refuse to consider the impossible. If you walk the same trails as the ghosts, you will likely have the same results.

[S.C.]

I'd like to think that I have often walked trails with ghosts.... It is a neat idea.

You asked "do we draw the line at Bluff Springs Mountain?" Would that have been too far for Waltz for such a scenario? Well... if there is a mine and/or caches that Waltz set up, then that line would have to be way beyond Bluff Springs.... So, that increases the distance Waltz would have had to go. It is not that it would be impossible for him. It is just - to me -an unlikely notion that he would not have found someplace closer to the massacre grounds to hide his gold.

I see where you are heading. It is an interesting idea. Especially considering Mrs. Barkley's comment.