Yellow Jackets

[klondike]

Perhaps we should try this one more time:


Gentlemen:

I really enjoyed your posts and wish you well in your endeavors. Joe made a comment that really has helped me understand it well is time to let go. 10 years is a long time and well none of us are getting any younger. I have seen too many good folks pass on and it really is time to celebrate the years remaining and not dwell on what was not accomplished. A lot has been accomplished and that is what should be remembered.

If I have one regret it is not being able to celebrate the accomplishments of some really fine folks that were apart of all of this through the years. One particular person I will never forget. I will always remember our walks here at the University on the Quad. She was quite the lady and was involved in all of this for a long, long time. Her beauty and intellect was rare and her ability to persuade was not to be believed. I remember the days just talking as we walked by the building were the Dutchman Ore was tested and simply trying to figure out what to recommend with all of this. I will always miss her greatly. But enough. I will leave you with this:

Perhaps for a long time you folks have asked the wrong question about what our motive was. Originally it was to remove the library for its own safety. Now the library has been converted to data that we can turn on in a second and make available to all mankind. It is quickly becoming apparent our job is done.

What we would like is to return the original contents of the library to its home, restore the site and teach classes there free of charge for the whole world. The site will be a world heritage site and under the auspices of the United Nations.

On a personal level I would like to teach the first class, and afterwards turn all of this over to young folks. Hopefully they will learn from our mistakes.

Actually I am glad to hand all of this off to a younger person. It will be interesting to see what they do. I have recommended they do things differently.

Good luck and may the stars keep you safe.


Klondike

[Oroblanco]

Klondike, good to see that you are at least looking up signs of mental illnesses. Recognize any symptoms? Still no answer as to how the other IDs are communicating?

More repeated posting. If you did that on most forums, you could get your posts deleted or a three day vacation from the forum, involuntary. Do you repeat the stuff just to fill the storage space of the server?

Now as to your sunken ship in the Salt river. I had mentioned there was an ancient wreck found in Rio de Janeiro, at the Bay of Jars. Robert Marx (a treasure hunter, horrors) discovered it, and the thing has been since covered by the Brazilian navy to discourage looters. However two of the amphorae were recovered intact, here is a photo of them:





If you have a reference book on ancient amphorae, you should not have much trouble finding pretty good matches. I am no expert on them, and my reference book is not in depth enough to get specific, but an expert has already given an opinion on them and states:

The highly publicized amphoras Robert Marx found in the ship are in fact similar in shape to jars produced in kilns at Kouass, on the west coast of Morocco. The Rio jars look to be late versions of those jars, perhaps datable to the third century A.D.

<Dr. Elizabeth Lyding Will, Archaeology Odyssey (January/February 2000)>

OK now it is YOUR turn - what kind of proof can you show us, of the ancient ship wreck in the Salt river? Do you have any photos, has any kind of relic or artifact been recovered, was there any wood remaining of the hull, what about metal fittings, nails, etc? What is the origin of the ship, is it Byzantine, or Arab, or Chinese or ??? How about the size, any estimate of the displacement, length, beam, and what kind of design was it, has that been determined? Was it a warship or merchant type vessel?

Most people quickly view a ship of a specific culture, as the typical warship of that culture - so when we are told that Leif Eriksson discovered America, most people automatically picture him standing on the prow of the typical Norse longship, when in reality his ship was almost certainly of the Knorr (merchant) type. They also were fitted with oars, but more often depended on their sails for motive power. Likewise for an ancient ship found, too many people automatically imagine it must be a trireme or other warship, when these kinds of ships were used for war, not for hauling cargos except in rare circumstances (or in a specially designed ship, like the Syracusa) and the merchant vessels were quite different.

When was the ship first discovered? Have you actually seen it? Has any kind of 'authorized' academic study been done on it, although I realize that there is great resistance to study archaeological 'outliers' which won't fit the accepted dogma, some few academics have the courage to do so. Will any of the findings be published, concerning this shipwreck?

Or are you going to evade answering questions about the ancient ship wreck in the Salt river, which you claimed is there? Can you answer questions about this ship (wreck)? If you refuse, I will have to conclude it is not true, and this tale goes in the bin with the other highly questionable, and totally unproven tales you have posted.

Sorry if it bothers you that I keep asking you about it, but YOU brought it up, and we already tried giving you plenty of time to present a case for your stories. It also is a pet peeve of mine, when people make up crap and then broadcast it as if it is true, that relates to ancient visitors coming to America. As Joe stated, the subject is rife with fakes, hoaxes and fraud. Not to mention total fictions. So if you really have something, like this ancient ship wreck, FOUND, then you need to present proof of it. Otherwise it is just more phony crap that harms the argument and case FOR pre-Columbian contact between Old world and New. I look forward to your answers, thanks in advance.
Oroblanco

[Oroblanco]

PS to Klondike, just to jog your memory - in case you forgot, it was you that posted this paragraph:

You want to keep talking about the world history you know. Why not open up to the history you do not know. When you come to understand that the trail maps take you to Horse Mesa it is easy to stand there and imagine that at one time ships navigated the Salt River from around the world. In fact one sank in the Salt very close to Fish Creek and its remains are still there under a 1000 years of silt. Much the same way the Tucson Artifacts were dumped in a flood plain, which with time would cover them also.

posted Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:51 pm


Remember it now? It is now August 2nd, and I have asked you for more information about this ship wreck repeatedly. Over two weeks of your continued evasions and "good bye" posts, so I am asking you about this supposed ship wreck one last time. Here is your chance.

[klondike]

Hello Roy,

As I have mentioned before most of the questions you have asked have been answered time and time again over the last 10 years. Seems the mention of the ship being sunk in the Salt River was made originally over 5 years ago. Specifics were provided and why go over it again. Particularly when the responses tend to be negative and become personal very quickly.

The specific shipwreck I mentioned occurred in the end times of the people and is mentioned in the library. There is a specific drawing of the event. From what we can tell it was a cargo vessel. Other vessels were sunk in the area over the ages. Imagine finding most of those would be pretty difficult though.

Keep in mind the colony of Calalus was a specific adventure for a specific reason. That is the reference to the new world made in the Critias and the specific road map to the Superstitions therein. This is not world history. At least it did not start out that way. The library of Oz. Just a local library in a out of the way place. It did survive though and because of this it became something remarkable. I remember a long time ago we made the reference to Alaska. That Alaska, while important to the United States, is not central to its being. Pretty much the same was true for the ancients. The Southwest a nice place to visit but not a place to live. The ancients had quite a gig.

Our people discovered it and the rest became history.

To understand that history you have to start with the Tucson Artifacts and go outward. Study the symbology, study the drawings, put together the trails that are shown and go from there.

When we posted the relationship between the Tucson Artifacts and the library of Oz and the reference on the artifacts to that library I thought we had perhaps said too much not to little. It is one thing to prove something it is another thing to figure it out. That is where your work must be done.

There is more proof to the existence of the library than really any other supposed undocumented event in the history of the America`s. Whether you figure it out is another matter.

Perhaps I can do something that might help you if you are interested in all of this. Simply pm me here. I maybe able to answer certain things in a pm that are really not answerable in a public forum. Building trust is important.

And be assured it is not because you scream and carry on. Really I think it is something else. Something tells me you have discovered something apart from all of this that proves Calalus existed. Either that or you have become aware of a discovery in the Superstitions that points to Oz. A discovery well it does not matter.

Keep in mind though I am retired from all of this and my interest in the Superstitions is simply carrying for a special place in Roger`s Canyon and the underground workings of Rhoda. The library of Oz is safe.


Klondike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ben,

[Keep in mind though I am retired from all of this and my interest in the Superstitions is simply carrying for a special place in Roger`s Canyon and the underground workings of Rhoda. The library of Oz is safe.


Klondike]

I believe it's true that "The library of Oz is safe." That goes for the rest of this story as well.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

[Oroblanco]

Hello Roy,

As I have mentioned before most of the questions you have asked have been answered time and time again over the last 10 years. Seems the mention of the ship being sunk in the Salt River was made originally over 5 years ago. Specifics were provided and why go over it again. Particularly when the responses tend to be negative and become personal very quickly.

Well I must have missed that earlier reference, and the tendency for personal attacks is not just a one way street here. But you have surprised me:

<Klondike also wrote>

The specific shipwreck I mentioned occurred in the end times of the people and is mentioned in the library. There is a specific drawing of the event. From what we can tell it was a cargo vessel. Other vessels were sunk in the area over the ages. Imagine finding most of those would be pretty difficult though.

OK - thank you! A cargo vessel, I take it then that you have not seen the actual ship, it remains totally buried? I guess the rest of the questions about the ship itself could not be answered then. Were you able to determine if the cargo vessel was built here (in America) or had traveled here?

<Klondike also wrote>

Keep in mind the colony of Calalus was a specific adventure for a specific reason. That is the reference to the new world made in the Critias and the specific road map to the Superstitions therein. This is not world history. At least it did not start out that way. The library of Oz. Just a local library in a out of the way place. It did survive though and because of this it became something remarkable. I remember a long time ago we made the reference to Alaska. That Alaska, while important to the United States, is not central to its being. Pretty much the same was true for the ancients. The Southwest a nice place to visit but not a place to live. The ancients had quite a gig.

Our people discovered it and the rest became history.

To understand that history you have to start with the Tucson Artifacts and go outward. Study the symbology, study the drawings, put together the trails that are shown and go from there.

When we posted the relationship between the Tucson Artifacts and the library of Oz and the reference on the artifacts to that library I thought we had perhaps said too much not to little. It is one thing to prove something it is another thing to figure it out. That is where your work must be done.

There is more proof to the existence of the library than really any other supposed undocumented event in the history of the America`s. Whether you figure it out is another matter.

Lets take it a byte at a time, and focus on the ship for now? I do not live in Arizona and it is over 1000 miles drive to get there, and I do try to get there every year, but my limited time there is entirely spoken for. I don't have time to go hiking in the Superstitions to try to follow a trail that many others have already, just to see some landmarks. But I am interested in this shipwreck.

<Klondike also wrote>

Perhaps I can do something that might help you if you are interested in all of this. Simply pm me here. I maybe able to answer certain things in a pm that are really not answerable in a public forum. Building trust is important.

Certainly, will send that PM very shortly. However we seem to have very different views on history, for I feel it needs to be made known to the public, not hidden away for any special group. So if there is some information that you do NOT wish to ever be public, don't tell me. I do not believe in keeping our history a secret or only for a select few. However I do understand that sometimes a site has to be protected from the public, like a rock inscription or pictogram, which if made public would then be a target for vandals, in which case - that type of information I will not make public without getting express written permission beforehand. I have some info like that already, including several bone arrow points with undeniable Punic writing on them, which unfortunately I can not use for publication because the discoverer does not want even the state where they were found to be made public. Such information is only partially helpful in making the case for ancient visitors to America, for when the provenance is being withheld, the skeptics then have an argument against the validity of such artifacts. (Or inscriptions, etc). Anyway certainly, I will get a PM sent shortly but let me finish this.

<Klondike also wrote.

And be assured it is not because you scream and carry on. Really I think it is something else. Something tells me you have discovered something apart from all of this that proves Calalus existed. Either that or you have become aware of a discovery in the Superstitions that points to Oz. A discovery well it does not matter.

Keep in mind though I am retired from all of this and my interest in the Superstitions is simply carrying for a special place in Roger`s Canyon and the underground workings of Rhoda. The library of Oz is safe.


Klondike

I don't know why you keep getting the impression that I am "screaming" or having "hissy fits" when I could hardly be more calm and cool, and be awake. I put things in bold and LARGE type simply to draw your attention to them. Sometimes things get overlooked, and I have missed my share of points in various discussions over the years. I have an enduring interest in any and all evidence of pre-Columbian contacts with the Old World, or I would not have bothered you for so long. I will tell you this, if I were really upset and angry, there would not be any need to guess at it, and I would not spend any further time talking to the person. I have no hesitation to make it clear if I am angry, nor reason to be oblique about it.

Let me get that PM sent off, have to sign off here shortly (I do have actual physical work to do while it is daylight) but wanted to catch up. Thank you again for the info on the ship. I take it then your impression was that the ship was not "coming to" Calalus but intending to sail away, perhaps taking passengers to safety? I am guessing there but would like to hear your views on it, thank you in advance on that part. Oh and before I forget, the drawing, could you determine if the ship had more than one mast, and was it rigged with square sail or lateen? Sometimes it is hard to tell from a drawing of course, your impression or even a guess will do for that question.

For our readers whom do not post;
- the reason I am so interested in the details on the ship, are to determine (if possible) what type of ship, the size, perhaps the origin port or at least by finding as close a match to the type of ship we may find some affinity to say, for example, Byzantine sailing vessels which would be the correct type to fit with the story of Calalus, but if Arab, that would not necessarily be wrong, or if some anachronistic type, then we have more problems. Also, a ship capable of sailing up a river, is not going to be the large, ocean-going type, more likely it would be an open-deck, narrow vessel, shallow draft so as to be able to navigate the shallows and rapids of a river. Hence the multiple questions about this ship wreck reported.

Oroblanco

[Joe Ribaudo]

Roy,

"OK - thank you! A cargo vessel, I take it then that you have not seen the actual ship, it remains totally buried? I guess the rest of the questions about the ship itself could not be answered then. Were you able to determine if the cargo vessel was built here (in America) or had traveled here?"

Hard to imagine a time when a ship could navigate as far as the Superstitions on the Salt River. It would be interesting to see that description from the library of OZ. What language do you think it was written in......that Ben could read?

Take care,

Joe

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

"OK - thank you! A cargo vessel, I take it then that you have not seen the actual ship, it remains totally buried? I guess the rest of the questions about the ship itself could not be answered then. Were you able to determine if the cargo vessel was built here (in America) or had traveled here?"

Hard to imagine a time when a ship could navigate as far as the Superstitions on the Salt River. It would be interesting to see that description from the library of OZ. What language do you think it was written in......that Ben could read?

Take care,

Joe

Have to agree, it is hard to imagine a ship sailing up the Salt river as it is today. Parts look like they would be tough in a canoe. But who knows? Perhaps there was more water in the system? There was a shipwreck found over half a mile from the sea in Cape Cod, in 1863. The ship had been trapped in a small "harbor" in a storm in 1626, repaired and ready to sail, and another storm closed up the small harbor permanently. A violent storm in 1863 re-opened the ancient harbor and uncovered the shipwreck. There is a sunken ship here in SD that is over a mile from a river, as the Missouri river channel moved. But as to the Salt river being navigable? I sure do not know. The Colorado river was certainly navigable up quite some distance at least into the 1800s, but I do not have any information about the Salt river water volume for a thousand years ago.

As you saw I only got partial answers to the questions, which is making progress but I do not know what language that cargo ship is described in. If it was recorded in the time of Calalus, we can guess that it would most likely have been recorded in Greek, or possibly Latin if some kind of formal/legal record.

I am not sure whether Klondike is saying that he physically saw the shipwreck, or some part of it, or if he only read of it? Was it just a picture (drawing) and a map, like a wall mural or petroglyphs? If so, we can not be certain that the ship is actually there near Fish creek on the Salt river, it may have been carried down river, completely destroyed by the action of the elements etc. So we have SOME information but not all by far.

I remain curious about how Atlantis is linked to Calalus at all. It would seem the time gap between the two stories, not to mention differences in cultures (Atlantian vs Roman/Samaritan/Jewish/Byzantine) would preclude any link.

You know, Joe, linguistics is one of the more fascinating subject areas of history. I do not know how much historical information can be extrapolated from languages, but it would seem that at least some confirmation, or exclusions should be possible. As with, for example, the language of India (Hindi) being vastly different from the Amerindian languages that Columbus mistook them for, or the languages of the Mikmaq tribe in Nova Scotia and the Cheyennes of Colorado are directly related. Loan words from contacts with other peoples is hotly debated but definitely is real and happens, look how many foreign words have been adopted in American English.

What is your opinion about the theory of the Mandan language being akin to Welsh? I have seen articles arguing both sides of that idea, and am very undecided. It appears that there are indeed some words that have the same or similar meanings in both languages, yet there are also numerous differences. Any opinion on this? Thank you in advance;
Roy

[Joe Ribaudo]

Roy,

"What is your opinion about the theory of the Mandan language being akin to Welsh? I have seen articles arguing both sides of that idea, and am very undecided. It appears that there are indeed some words that have the same or similar meanings in both languages, yet there are also numerous differences. Any opinion on this? Thank you in advance"

It seems possible when you consider some of Mandan words compared to Welsh. They don't just sound alike, but have the same meaning. Same thing happens with some Mongolian words and Indians of the Southwest......as I recall.

The legend was that the Welsh had made cities and roads in this country. Can't do that without leaving any traces that they were here. Interesting stories. No doubt Ben will add them to his Calalus saga.

Take care,

Joe

[Oroblanco]

Joe wrote

Roy,

"What is your opinion about the theory of the Mandan language being akin to Welsh? I have seen articles arguing both sides of that idea, and am very undecided. It appears that there are indeed some words that have the same or similar meanings in both languages, yet there are also numerous differences. Any opinion on this? Thank you in advance"

It seems possible when you consider some of Mandan words compared to Welsh. They don't just sound alike, but have the same meaning. Same thing happens with some Mongolian words and Indians of the Southwest......as I recall.

The legend was that the Welsh had made cities and roads in this country. Can't do that without leaving any traces that they were here. Interesting stories. No doubt Ben will add them to his Calalus saga.

Take care,

Have you heard about this?
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/200 ... ality.html

It is a strange tale, a Welsh prince that sails off to discover a new land, disgusted with the murders over poor land in his homeland, returns and gathers colonists, then sails off to his new land never to be heard of again. Was it just a romantic tale from the Dark Ages? The stone fortifications are particularly intriguing.

What is interesting to tie this in with the Calalus story, is there may be some overlap. If there were survivors of Calalus, they could have been contemporaries with Madoc's colony. Plus the exact date of Madoc's voyages are still in debate. Also, we might wonder if Madoc had learned of Calalus, and this explains why he wanted to sail west in the first place?

[Somehiker]

Perhaps for a long time you folks have asked the wrong question about what our motive was. Originally it was to remove the library for its own safety. Now the library has been converted to data that we can turn on in a second and make available to all mankind. It is quickly becoming apparent our job is done.

What we would like is to return the original contents of the library to its home, restore the site and teach classes there free of charge for the whole world. The site will be a world heritage site and under the auspices of the United Nations.

On a personal level I would like to teach the first class, and afterwards turn all of this over to young folks. Hopefully they will learn from our mistakes.

Actually I am glad to hand all of this off to a younger person. It will be interesting to see what they do. I have recommended they do things differently.

Good luck and may the stars keep you safe.


Klondike

Forward Thinking.....

[Joe Ribaudo]

Perhaps for a long time you folks have asked the wrong question about what our motive was. Originally it was to remove the library for its own safety. Now the library has been converted to data that we can turn on in a second and make available to all mankind. It is quickly becoming apparent our job is done.

What we would like is to return the original contents of the library to its home, restore the site and teach classes there free of charge for the whole world. The site will be a world heritage site and under the auspices of the United Nations.

On a personal level I would like to teach the first class, and afterwards turn all of this over to young folks. Hopefully they will learn from our mistakes.

Actually I am glad to hand all of this off to a younger person. It will be interesting to see what they do. I have recommended they do things differently.

Good luck and may the stars keep you safe.


Klondike

Forward Thinking.....

Wayne,

As I have said a number of times.......South Africa is hardly a safe place to store/keep....... anything.

I'm afraid Ben's story reaches the end of the yellow brick road with that claim. On the other hand, I do know that South Africa was a natural choice for him. There are some connections there. I believe the Martin name, Sunnyvale CA, South Africa, and the library of OZ make a neat little circle there. I may be off a very few miles with the Sunnyvale connection, but that sticks in my memory. I have that information, somewhere, and even the company that Martin worked for.

That is all back in the day I was looking for something tangible to hang my Calalus/OZ hat on. Afraid those days are over.

Take care,

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

Looks like I may have hit a delicate subject. Can't help but wonder why Ben has gone silent. Summer is usually his slow time.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ben,

As I said, those days are over. Don't even have the drive to dig through that old research. Posting a picture of an old, well known mine shaft in Nevada does not qualify as....."evidence" for the existence of Oz. Got any others?

Take care,

Joe

[Oroblanco]

I think Ben may just be busy with other things, not that he is deliberately ignoring us here.

I hope all is well with you, no news in Dakota but hoping to see you in a few weeks!
Roy

[klondike]

Gentlemen,

I would like to wish everyone a happy holiday season. At this point in my life friendship and fond memories of folks is what I choose to remember. Perhaps the following needs to be restated:

Gentlemen:

I really enjoyed your posts and wish you well in your endeavors. Joe made a comment that really has helped me understand it well is time to let go. 10 years is a long time and well none of us are getting any younger. I have seen too many good folks pass on and it really is time to celebrate the years remaining and not dwell on what was not accomplished. A lot has been accomplished and that is what should be remembered.

If I have one regret it is not being able to celebrate the accomplishments of some really fine folks that were apart of all of this through the years. One particular person I will never forget. I will always remember our walks here at the University on the Quad. She was quite the lady and was involved in all of this for a long, long time. Her beauty and intellect was rare and her ability to persuade was not to be believed. I remember the days just talking as we walked by the building were the Dutchman Ore was tested and simply trying to figure out what to recommend with all of this. I will always miss her greatly. But enough. I will leave you with this:

Perhaps for a long time you folks have asked the wrong question about what our motive was. Originally it was to remove the library for its own safety. Now the library has been converted to data that we can turn on in a second and make available to all mankind. It is quickly becoming apparent our job is done.

What we would like is to return the original contents of the library to its home, restore the site and teach classes there free of charge for the whole world. The site will be a world heritage site and under the auspices of the United Nations.

On a personal level I would like to teach the first class, and afterwards turn all of this over to young folks. Hopefully they will learn from our mistakes.

Actually I am glad to hand all of this off to a younger person. It will be interesting to see what he does. I have recommended he does things differently.

Good luck and may the stars keep you safe.


Klondike

I would like to comment on a few things.

The ship that has been mentioned before is still there. In fact there is an official report documenting the survey and its findings. Very, very difficult to locate and is hidden quite well in a major museum in the United States but is accessible. At least the last time I looked.

I believe folks make too much of the problems with Mrs. Corbin`s book and do not focus enough on the true gems of knowledge it contains. Within its covers are more actionable data points than any work ever written on the Superstitions. Imagine far more work needs to be done to understand Tom Reis, the geological setting of Pistol Canyon and the tremendous amount of disturbance that occurred in this area. The convergence of two Caldera Complexes well produces things and in this case many things. The drift mine in pistol canyon is far, far more important in understanding the LDM than folks have ever understood. Perhaps that drift mine is a gate to other things. Indeed it is. As is the two caldera complexes in the Horse Mesa area. One that is recognized, one that is not. The resemblance to the Cresson Blow out in Colorado and the Aladdin`s Chamber in Goldfield Nevada is phenomenal.

If it matters the drift mine in Pistol Canyon contained ore that is an exact match for the ore that was tested at the University of Nevada. Believe that ore supposedly came from Jacob.

One final thing. You folks are far to hard on each other. Instead of wallowing in conflict pool your resources, separate the wheat from the chaff and see what gates might open. Failure to do so will continue to allow the charlatans and snake oil salesmen to charm you with mesothermal quartz and dazzle you with promises of hide maps that purport to explain the stone maps. All you have to do is buy one more book, see one more tv special and you are there. Perhaps not.

The truth of the Superstitions is far, far bigger than the range. It extends in time back over 10,000 years and in space it circles the planet.

And the best to those who now carry on. Good luck TW. Oz is.


Klondike

[Oroblanco]

Wishing you and yours a very Merry Christmas Klondike.

<you wrote>

The ship that has been mentioned before is still there. In fact there is an official report documenting the survey and its findings. Very, very difficult to locate and is hidden quite well in a major museum in the United States but is accessible. At least the last time I looked.

Can you recall the name of the museum? Thanks in advance;

<you also wrote>

If it matters the drift mine in Pistol Canyon contained ore that is an exact match for the ore that was tested at the University of Nevada. Believe that ore supposedly came from Jacob.

This is news to me, what drift mine are you referring to in Pistol canyon? Thank in advance (again)

Oroblanco

[Joe Ribaudo]

Roy & Ben,

Can I assume we are talking vein mining as opposed to placer?

Thanks,

Joe

[Oroblanco]

Hi Joe - and I honestly do not know. I presume he is referring to a lode, but as you know a drift mine could very well be a placer. Heck those Klondike gold rush miners were tunneling in the gravels under the ice, in winter! Not suggesting this is the same thing, but could mean a high bench placer, perhaps in caliche that would be not very different from hard rock mining. Only Ben can say which he is referring to specifically.

I do not know of any drift mine in Pistol canyon, though it has been years since I was there, I suppose I could have missed it. I don't think I could talk Beth into a hike there just to check this out, not to mention the 1100 mile drive!

I hope all is well with you and that you are feeling great.
Roy

[Joe Ribaudo]

Roy,

You must find a way, or you must make a way.......or something like that.

Take care,

Joe

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

You must find a way, or you must make a way.......or something like that.

Take care,

Joe

Yes, apparently that is all part of the game; to drop a 'hint' like this one:

If it matters the drift mine in Pistol Canyon contained ore that is an exact match for the ore that was tested at the University of Nevada. Believe that ore supposedly came from Jacob.

As far as I know, none of Jacob Waltz's ore was ever tested at the University of Nevada, the only assay ever done was in Phoenix by Joe Porterie. So if this drift mine, which I am unaware of, has ore that matches ore tested at the U of Nev, I have no idea what that implies. I have mentioned it before that I live over 1000 miles away and have had enough hiking the Superstitions without finding gold to suit me, much less to go chasing what some anonymous person I have never met is trying to "lure" me to go check out for him. Then there was this tidbit:

The ship that has been mentioned before is still there. In fact there is an official report documenting the survey and its findings. Very, very difficult to locate and is hidden quite well in a major museum in the United States but is accessible. At least the last time I looked.

I guess that I am supposed to start contacting every major museum in the US and ask about documents relating to a sunken ancient Roman shipwreck at the mouth of the Salt river. I can just imagine how that might possibly color my own name for any future research. As it is I have some excellent contacts, friends even, however I do try not to bother them with anything bogus. Some will not allow their names to be associated with anything remotely questionable, as regards pre-Columbian contact evidence. I can see why.

So Ben the ball is in your court, as the saying goes, we are waiting on the next chapter or installment as the case may be. Sorry but I am not making the run to AZ on that statement of yours, and unless you can remember the name of the museum, I really don't have time to be contacting every one to try to run down a rumor posted by you. I am interested in evidence of pre-Columbian contact with the Old World, but so far your hints and statements won't convince the historians.

I hope all is well with you both, and if I don't pop by here before then, wish you a very Merry Christmas!
Roy

[Joe Ribaudo]

Roy & Ben,

It seems we can expect these little gem's to be dropped on the forum whenever there's a break in the school year. A little boredom sets in and we receive the latest chapter. Now if you claimed the same thing for a German U-Boat it would be a lot more fun.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Joe

[klondike]

Hello Roy, Hello Joe,

Hope things are well with you folks. Hard to believe a new year will soon be upon us.

I would check out the Smithsonian. Believe there have been enough hints in that direction so good luck. After all folks from the Smithsonian played a role in the Calalus artifacts. Very helpful I might add.

As far as the ore that was tested at UNR re-visit Glover`s book. Believe it is mentioned there. The ore had higher than normal quartz crystallization temperatures but the suite of minerals associated with the vein shows it to be epithermal in nature. The drift mine the ore came from was created at the contact point between two Caldera Complexes that touch in Pistol Canyon. Tellurides oh well doesn`t matter.

The drift mine is on a vein. There is a picture of a drift mine in Helen Corbin`s book that looks a lot like this particular mine. Hold on a minute. Let`s see I believe it is on page 223. Yes it is. Like I said a lot of gems in that book. Just need to know where to look.

Actually there are several mines in the area that are a result of the same set of geological events. Some that are covered some that are not. Would not be surprised to discover that Mr. Gassler was on to at least one of the mines.

Would be quite interesting to see if the ore that was sent to UNR was the same ore that was part of the Gassler story? But of course to go there you might have to re-visit some of your paradigms. Perhaps the folks Mr. Gassler was on the Mesa with were friends and the purpose of bringing others to the Mesa had nothing to do with the LDM but other things. I would start with Tennessee.

A german u-boat that is interesting. Did not realize those folks were in the neighborhood. Good catch. Perhaps the same one that was in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Anyway good luck to you folks and have a merry christmas. Quite warm and beautiful here today how are things there?

One other thing. I wonder if the hide map folks appreciate that if Mr. Ribaudo`s solution to the stone maps is correct and it is their map would cover a part of the range that is quite large indeed. Perhaps even go beyond the range. Perhaps even show the Salt River, where it intersects with Fish Creek. If so the information would be quite, quite old. And where it came from even older. Wonder if there is a relationship to the two stone maps that were in the Monuments high on the east side of West Boulder Canyon. Real animals destroyed those monuments. Of course their prize took them to Mailaipi for two years.


Klondike

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos;

Klondike wrote

Hello Roy, Hello Joe,

Hope things are well with you folks. Hard to believe a new year will soon be upon us.

I would check out the Smithsonian. Believe there have been enough hints in that direction so good luck. After all folks from the Smithsonian played a role in the Calalus artifacts. Very helpful I might add.

Thank you, that saves a lot of time and effort. More in a bit.

Klondike also wrote:

As far as the ore that was tested at UNR re-visit Glover`s book. Believe it is mentioned there. The ore had higher than normal quartz crystallization temperatures but the suite of minerals associated with the vein shows it to be epithermal in nature. The drift mine the ore came from was created at the contact point between two Caldera Complexes that touch in Pistol Canyon. Tellurides oh well doesn`t matter.

The drift mine is on a vein. There is a picture of a drift mine in Helen Corbin`s book that looks a lot like this particular mine. Hold on a minute. Let`s see I believe it is on page 223. Yes it is. Like I said a lot of gems in that book. Just need to know where to look.

Actually there are several mines in the area that are a result of the same set of geological events. Some that are covered some that are not. Would not be surprised to discover that Mr. Gassler was on to at least one of the mines.

Would be quite interesting to see if the ore that was sent to UNR was the same ore that was part of the Gassler story? But of course to go there you might have to re-visit some of your paradigms. Perhaps the folks Mr. Gassler was on the Mesa with were friends and the purpose of bringing others to the Mesa had nothing to do with the LDM but other things. I would start with Tennessee.

Page 223 photo - hmm. We have no way to know where that image was taken. Also, it might be wise to cross-check everything you find in Helen's second book, for unfortunately, much false/fictional material found its way into the source materials, like the Olbers manifest for an example. I won't be driving to AZ to hike in to Pistol canyon, my apologies, actually have other leads that we are pursuing, which are not even in that mountain range and without the hordes of competitors. But thank you for taking the time to explain. Do you have any photos of that ore you refer to? Nothing wrong with an epithermal gold vein, most of the lode gold mines in AZ proved to be that type, and could make a fellow quite rich. So long as he did not try to pursue the vein when it pinches out. Hence an old played out epithermal drift mine is not likely to have much more to find in it. If ever we are in Pistol canyon again, I will look around again to see if I can spot this drift mine you are talking about.

Klondike also wrote

A german u-boat that is interesting. Did not realize those folks were in the neighborhood. Good catch. Perhaps the same one that was in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Anyway good luck to you folks and have a merry christmas. Quite warm and beautiful here today how are things there?

One other thing. I wonder if the hide map folks appreciate that if Mr. Ribaudo`s solution to the stone maps is correct and it is their map would cover a part of the range that is quite large indeed. Perhaps even go beyond the range. Perhaps even show the Salt River, where it intersects with Fish Creek. If so the information would be quite, quite old. And where it came from even older. Wonder if there is a relationship to the two stone maps that were in the Monuments high on the east side of West Boulder Canyon. Real animals destroyed those monuments. Of course their prize took them to Mailaipi for two years.

I can not speak for Joe but the weather here in Dakota has been quite unseasonal, sunny and pleasant, highs in the 50s each day and supposed to hit 67 tomorrow, so I am not going to whine about it.

I hope all is well with you Klondike, thank you for explaining further as your previous post seemed like a bread crumb trail, that sadly will go unfollowed as neither Joe nor I are likely to be able to. I am sure that you would agree, it would be rather unwise to go chasing into the desert based on what some unknown person you have never met told you on the internet!

Side point here but on those tellurides, well, that should have been a red flag, and a possible indicator as to where that ore really came from. In other words most likely from a place that is known to have gold tellurides, rather than in the Superstition mountains of Arizona. I would suggest caution in accepting things at face value, especially when the source has a spotty record. The same holds true for any treasure maps of any kind, especially those that have been in the public 'domain' for years so to speak. There are persons that have been broadcasting phony information for years now, plenty of BS to beware of.

Wishing you and anyone reading this a very Merry Christmas, look forward to reading your next posts.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

[klondike]

Hello Roy,

Good to hear you folks are getting good weather in the Dakota`s. Visited a friend several years ago in Montana. When he invited me up the weather was beautiful and in the 70`s. By the time I made it to Bozeman it was very, very cold. Spent about a week at his ranch near a little community believe it is called Hot Springs. Coldest I have been in a long, long time.

Ms. Corbin`s book both conceals and reveals. A dance of what is and what is not. The question is why. Even deception can tell you a great deal if you are open to its truth. Perhaps deception is used to hide great truths if so no harm no foul. We always have the responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff. Perhaps there is a picture in Ms. Corbin`s book of the drift mine that is known as the ldm, if so then obviously it is the most important book written on the subject. Is there such a picture. Yes there is.

In terms of the wreckage of the ancient ship in the Salt River, another group is working that as I write this. In 60 days that will be worked out and stored in the same place the contents of Spirit Mountain are interned.

As far as the Smithsonian goes the files were given a while back along with a number of other things for safe keeping. The name it is gifted under is really quite humorous. Don`t expect anyone will figure it out. It is too simple,

Perhaps it will one day be given to someone as a gift. Perhaps it already has. Stamped and ready to go.

Merry christmas and may the stars keep you safe.


Klondike