Waltz walked?

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djui5
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Waltz walked?

Post by djui5 »

I was talking with my wife today about Waltz traveling from his house in downtown Phoenix to the supers...and everywhere I've read it says he walked.
How likely is that? I mean, he had money...why wouldn't he have a horse? That's a hell of a walk if you ask me....especially when you wouldn't have to.
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Walking

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

I am not sure how many of the stories of Waltz making trips to the Superstitions are factual. If he did, it seems likely that he would have rode. Only reason a man/prospector would be walking and leading a burro, would be if he were LOOKING for a claim. The less animals you have to deal with, the more time you will have for searching.

I would guess that Bark's rendition of what took place with Waltz, is the closest to the truth.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
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Waltz walked

Post by bill711 »

I,m pretty sure that Jake used mules to get around, He wasn,t dumb, even if he was a tuff old bird. :lol: bill 8)
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Water

Post by critter »

Mules, horses, and people require a lot of water on a daily basis and there is about as much water as gold in what we call the Superstitions. Where do you suppose he got the water? :wink:
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Post by djui5 »

:D
Randy Wright
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Post by zentull »

The present day springs are not like those of 100 years ago I am sure. There was plenty of good waterholes and springs until the last 20 years. In the member archives there is a picture of a large pool in Peralta canyon. There were plenty of those. That picture was taken in the early nineties. That was a good swimming hole in years prior to that. From early fall to mid spring water there plenty of good places.
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Waltz walked?

Post by JIM HAMRICK »

In the mid forties an old man told my father that Waltz would hitch rides with teamsters going into the Superstitions. In the seventies I read a letter in a treasure magazine from a man in the south who said that his grandfather was a mason in the Phoenix area who had a source of limestone to burn to make mortar in the Superstitions. He also said that the Dutchman would ride with his grandfather until he was near his limestone source then walk. After the man would load his wagon with mortar (didn't say how long it took to burn the limestone and load the wagon) and that the dutchman would be waiting along the road to ride back to Phoenix. The letter also said that waltz would take a satchel with him and bring it back (guess that would be food in gold out). There no note of tools being taken in, which would indicate if the story is true that Waltz had tools stored or that it was a stash that needed no tools to recover.

I have been trying to find a map of soldier's roads in the area but have had no luck finding anything useful. The access would have to be usable by a wagon not just a horse trail.
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The Moving Finger..........

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Jim,

In case you did not save Matthew's reply to the first time you asked this question, which has been deleted, here it is:


Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: Government Well, Lime deposit.

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Jim,

The story about the mason is a fascinating one, but finding that Lime deposit today or on a map may be a tall order.

Masons did indeed use lime as a mortar and the story told in the article may well have been true. Quicklime was what was most common in the 1870's around Arizona. Lime is basically calcium oxide and calcium magnesium oxide, the two chief sources of which are limestone and dolomite. The limestone or dolomite is burned in an oven and the carbon dioxide is burned away leaving quicklime.

There are deposits of both limestone and dolomite in the Goldfield mountains. But not just any deposit will do for making lime, the limestone and dolomite needs to be at the right degree of decomposition. Probably what happened was the mason knew of a deposit that was just right and may have exhausted the only supply in the area. If the deposit was not a large one it is altogether possible it was mined privately and never claimed or noted on any map or geology report. Limestone was necessary back then but not a big money mineral.

You have nailed down the Marysville store owner as Charles Whitlow , that would stand to reason as Joe pointed out in his post, Whitlow was a very enterprising businessman and probably didn't pass up any opportunity to open a new business and make a few dollars selling to the settlers and indians.

I would love to see the piece of ore you mentioned. This would be in line with other samples said to have been from the Dutchman's mine.

Thanks to you Jim for this great thread and the information you are sharing with us.

Aurum

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Take care,

Joe
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Old Trails

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Jim,

Here are a few interestin things about the area you are asking about:

Northeast of Willow Springs Well and on the east side of 88 there is an old mine shaft that goes straight down, Spanish style. It is very close to the highway.

Just north of that shaft, there is an old trail that crosses 88 at Apache Gap. It takes you southeast into the area of Jim Hatt's location for the "Jenkins' Lost Lode".

There are many old trails and roads that go westward in the Government Well area. Some of those old trails can be followed all the way to Fort McDowell. Two river crossings must be made and both were commonly used.

If I were going to search for that lime deposit, it would be with a quad. Seems like a good project for a weekend campout, and I would guess that it would not be that difficult to find the deposit, assuming it is not just another "tall tale".

As a guess, although it's possible, I doubt that Waltz was working his mine from that drop-off point. Perhaps he had found some gold left over in the mine shaft on the east side of the highway.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
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Waltz walked?

Post by JIM HAMRICK »

I don't recall the reply from 2-14-05 but as I do not keep a record I could have just spaced it out. Thanks for the info you have added I found it found it ineresting. As I have said I am more interested in the history of the area and not looking for the Lost Dutchman Mine but If I stumbled over the mine I would not ignore it. I still thank that if it existed it would have been at Goldfield.

After reading Jack San Felice's book "Treasure tails of the Superstitions" I can more clearly understand why and what many of you are looking for. Befor reading the book I did not understand why anyone would store a treasure in the Superstitions so far from those who had hidden it.

I would like to ask those of you who have knowledge of the area a question. It has nothing to do with the mine or treasure. About 20 +/_ years ago the office I worked out of did a slurry seal on the Apache Trail and at that time I found a tin pipe that was riveted with aluminum couplings that would have crossed the trail If a section or two had not been removed. The pipe was about half way up the hill from the LDM park it seemed as if it ran from the wash right after the camp grounds, up the hill and topped out. Does anyone know what the pipe was for and when it was placed?

Thanks

Jim Hamrick
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