THE GAS WAR
The gas war
JIM JIM JIM Don,t you know what I wrote seems harsh? yes it does! BUT how long do you politly say no? And let them run over you and your rights like a stampeding frieght train? Until we are wall to wall spanish? Chinese? Arab or all 3? Already they are demanding special treatment? change our cultuier? demand that it be in spanish? So far we have abt. 25 million spanish in the last 25 yrs.? Do you want to feel like you are standing down town N.Y. when you are supposed to be out in the boonies? The marches were in your face They were telling you that they could come into your country against the law, break the laws and there is not one damn thing you can do about it Jim! Did you know Vincente Fox is demanding Social Sucurity for all the spanish workers who come to this country? How many, how much and how long JIM? To stop it you have to make BELEIVERS out of them Jim...YOU have to make them miserble enough to go home and stay home! bill
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Who Me?
Sam,
Sorry, I should have put a few
s in there. I am not "pissed" nor does anything you have written "enrage" me.
I respect anyone who believes in what they say and has the courage to voice their opinions, even in a hostile environment. You are such a man.
You have mistaken me voicing my opinions as a personal attack on you.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I do not take your views personally. I have heated debates with many members of this Forum. It's even possible that I may do the same outside this group. They, even Don, are welcome in my home anytime. You would also be welcome.
I have no problem understanding the merits of the two party system. If either party managed to take over completely, we would have need of the guns I am hoarding.
Offering someone a job for "$3.00 an hour" is against the law. Not being in your shoes, I can't really say what I would have done. Most of you can probably guess.
Lots of good ideas floating around on this Forum. Same thing is going on all over the country. Trouble is, the assholes have all the power, and they are using it to spin the voices of the people.
We need more people in this world like my friend, Bill. Just tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.
What makes you think Schwarzenegger is a Republican?
I suppose you think John McCain is also a Republican.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Sorry, I should have put a few
s in there. I am not "pissed" nor does anything you have written "enrage" me.I respect anyone who believes in what they say and has the courage to voice their opinions, even in a hostile environment. You are such a man.
You have mistaken me voicing my opinions as a personal attack on you.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I do not take your views personally. I have heated debates with many members of this Forum. It's even possible that I may do the same outside this group.
They, even Don, are welcome in my home anytime. You would also be welcome.I have no problem understanding the merits of the two party system. If either party managed to take over completely, we would have need of the guns I am hoarding.
Offering someone a job for "$3.00 an hour" is against the law. Not being in your shoes, I can't really say what I would have done. Most of you can probably guess.
Lots of good ideas floating around on this Forum. Same thing is going on all over the country. Trouble is, the assholes have all the power, and they are using it to spin the voices of the people.
We need more people in this world like my friend, Bill. Just tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.
What makes you think Schwarzenegger is a Republican?
I suppose you think John McCain is also a Republican. Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
The Gas
Sam; I should have told you that I too am not mad at you nor seething with rage at you. I wouldn,t waste my time nor energy, I have other more worthwhile and more interesting things todo. BUT the truth is the truth and neither me nor you can change it! Liberals always start talking about neo nazis and crap like that when they start on Bush; The liberals are commie,s and there is no denying it either? They suck and snort around after every commie leader there is. The so called democrate leaders are wanting all of us to be like pheasamt,s! Are you a pheasant Sam? Why do you support the ones who would make one of you then? ON 9-11 we had over 3000 american citizens killed right here on our own shores Sam we have to answer that or we soon not be a nation. You can see for your self how much help that BUSH has got from the democrat,s with it. HELL look for your self Sam I don,t have to tell you. I wish you well Sam Bill
joe thanks for the "qualified"invitation who knows ? family issues mean i must visit these shores soon ,a visit im quite looking forward regardless of core issues. it would be interesting to meet with an old friend/adversary ,thats if you can stand the strain of conversing with a "commie"
bill, your rabid anti lib ,anti commie comments are maybe indicative of the society we are becoming.
jim
i didnt mean to say this govt was most right wing govt known to man(in fact i didnt use the phrase known to man at all) i said in american political history (or meant to) its beyond me how anyone can describe this govt as left wing-but there you go......
my comparison with hitler was not meant to be taken literally, but i was making the point it was how hitler began.........arrest without charges-let alone trial....erosuion of civil liberties......discrimination etc.despite wat some think im not a commie(tho if i were i wouldnt be ashamed of it,its just another idealogy same as capitalism) ive voted both dem and rep thro the years but never been impressed by either.the world today is fraught with such probs and issues that its prob time to ditch the old partisan political approach, we need the best brains from both parties to solve the issues that face us. a strong america is essential to world security and peace..but a strong america with empathy...a strong america with understanding....a strong america with no conscience is counter productive.
i thought the original topic was gas prices...well over here (britain) gas is now £4.20 a gallon ..soon to rise to £5.00 so you shold be grateful that you havent reached that level yet....but you will i imagine.we all gotta realise we got to consume less-of almost everything...resources are lagging behind population growth and demand and in any case no resource is limitless. oil gas and water supplies are gonna be a major prob over next decade and world govts are gonna have to address the issue.....the prob has to be solved for the human ravce to continue ,thats far more important than griping about dearer fuel prices......try walking more often
by the way how do i update my email address?
thanks for listening
who knows ? family issues mean i must visit these shores soon ,a visit im quite looking forward regardless of core issues. it would be interesting to meet with an old friend/adversary ,thats if you can stand the strain of conversing with a "commie" bill, your rabid anti lib ,anti commie comments are maybe indicative of the society we are becoming.
jim
i didnt mean to say this govt was most right wing govt known to man(in fact i didnt use the phrase known to man at all) i said in american political history (or meant to) its beyond me how anyone can describe this govt as left wing-but there you go......
my comparison with hitler was not meant to be taken literally, but i was making the point it was how hitler began.........arrest without charges-let alone trial....erosuion of civil liberties......discrimination etc.despite wat some think im not a commie(tho if i were i wouldnt be ashamed of it,its just another idealogy same as capitalism) ive voted both dem and rep thro the years but never been impressed by either.the world today is fraught with such probs and issues that its prob time to ditch the old partisan political approach, we need the best brains from both parties to solve the issues that face us. a strong america is essential to world security and peace..but a strong america with empathy...a strong america with understanding....a strong america with no conscience is counter productive.
i thought the original topic was gas prices...well over here (britain) gas is now £4.20 a gallon ..soon to rise to £5.00 so you shold be grateful that you havent reached that level yet....but you will i imagine.we all gotta realise we got to consume less-of almost everything...resources are lagging behind population growth and demand and in any case no resource is limitless. oil gas and water supplies are gonna be a major prob over next decade and world govts are gonna have to address the issue.....the prob has to be solved for the human ravce to continue ,thats far more important than griping about dearer fuel prices......try walking more often
by the way how do i update my email address?
thanks for listening
Don update your email address
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Qualified?
Don,
Not really sure that my invation was "qualified" in any manner, but I assume there might a slightly different take on the word over there.
Should you ever do me the honor of paying a visit, you will find that my greeting will be warm, and my hospitality unreserved. Knowing your political slant, I will avoid the subject. I have no doubt the conversation will not suffer because of that avoidance.
The conversations here, are a different matter. I will speak my mind on any subject that comes along, and expect each and every one of you to do the same. Wouldn't have it any other way.
As for gas/oil prices, I believe we should use up every drop of oil and as quickly as possible. The rest of the world is using more not less, and if we conserve, how many years do you think me might streatch out the supply? Fifty would be a lot, a hundred seems like an impossible goal.
That's a drop in the bucket time wise.
The sooner we use it up, the sooner we will switch to the technology that is already available and the sooner we will stop poluting our air and oceans. Don't buy into the propaganda that is being spewed all over the air waves. Get an SUV and start saving the world. Use more, lots more and use it faster.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Not really sure that my invation was "qualified" in any manner, but I assume there might a slightly different take on the word over there.
Should you ever do me the honor of paying a visit, you will find that my greeting will be warm, and my hospitality unreserved. Knowing your political slant, I will avoid the subject. I have no doubt the conversation will not suffer because of that avoidance.
The conversations here, are a different matter. I will speak my mind on any subject that comes along, and expect each and every one of you to do the same. Wouldn't have it any other way.
As for gas/oil prices, I believe we should use up every drop of oil and as quickly as possible. The rest of the world is using more not less, and if we conserve, how many years do you think me might streatch out the supply? Fifty would be a lot, a hundred seems like an impossible goal.
That's a drop in the bucket
time wise.The sooner we use it up, the sooner we will switch to the technology that is already available and the sooner we will stop poluting our air and oceans. Don't buy into the propaganda that is being spewed all over the air waves. Get an SUV and start saving the world. Use more, lots more and use it faster.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Gas War
Don in this country many people have quite driving so much BUT you have many people in the western states who have to drive 50 miles one way for a total of 100 miles per day just to work and they can not afford these prices for gas! I also note that you all have your little imigration problem over there too. When people espouse commie libral words then I have to call it what it is? NO HATE involved NO RABIDNESS involve just the truth! I do not hate anyone, I do not have to hate anyone to tell the truth about them. I am not even a right winger or anything like that BUT I am an american first before any political party. If you want to come into my country all that I ask you to do is obey the laws ane come into it LEGALLY... What do you do when beggers come into your country ilegally are fall out into the street and start screaming for more welfare, change the laws, change the language, change the flag, change the national anthem, DEMAND more of their ilegall cousins. DEMANDING this and that? What do you do? Except just club them half to death and hall their ass back to where they come from? What do you think we should do ? kiss their hinders? What do you do whan strangers come to your property and do not obey your laws? WE have tried the soft, kind gentle way, and they have BIT our hand off! They crapped on us? NOW it,s time to get real and make beleivers out of them! Make them miserable enough while they are here and let them know it will get worse the next time around and they will get the picture? MAYBE we need to take over mexico if we need to? So we will have some place to store our unwanted ilegal mexicans? bill
joe, im wondering if the new technologies are really available,i know they are in theory ,but in a practical way?, and how long would this switch over take? i hope you are right. the qualified remark was relating to the "everybody EVEN DON" INVITATION,its ok no prob with that. and no need to avoid certain issues,i gotta thick skin and im sure u have also.
bill, yeah we got immigration probs here too.....but over here its muslims, poles, bulgarians algerians czechs etc.its politicians fault,cheap labour is the bonus for them ....overcrowding and simmering tension in inner cities the end result for the common person....however im an immigrant myself,so who am i to talk? weve all been told that we need and want diversity through the years,and maybe we do. i think its right to offer sanctuary to refugees in certain cases.the problem is the scale of it,and of course some use the refugee excuse for their own ends. politicians (of all persuasions) are too lily livered to REALLY do anything cos they scared of being labelled racist.its a mess i agree. there was a politician here in britain some 40 years ago .his name was enoch powell,a brilliant orator,very charismatic,a man of fantastivc abilities,and also at the time a member of parliament and cabinet minister. he made a speech labelled by the press "the infamous rivers of blood speech" where he predicted that world wide in near future rivers of blood would flow in cities throughout the world if if immigration wasnt severely curtailed.he had enormous support from the populace,the guy in the street. but the administration villified him,demoted him,virtually destroyed him as contender for leadership and instead shipped him off to the shithole of britain ..northern ireland to serveas a minister there.so the inability or refusal to curb immigration isnt anything new.i agree your solution might be the best 1 but its unworkable unfortunately unless of course you live in extreme right or left wing country with equivalent of military dictatorship.....which brings us full circle back to where we started
isnt life sweet?
bill, yeah we got immigration probs here too.....but over here its muslims, poles, bulgarians algerians czechs etc.its politicians fault,cheap labour is the bonus for them ....overcrowding and simmering tension in inner cities the end result for the common person....however im an immigrant myself,so who am i to talk? weve all been told that we need and want diversity through the years,and maybe we do. i think its right to offer sanctuary to refugees in certain cases.the problem is the scale of it,and of course some use the refugee excuse for their own ends. politicians (of all persuasions) are too lily livered to REALLY do anything cos they scared of being labelled racist.its a mess i agree. there was a politician here in britain some 40 years ago .his name was enoch powell,a brilliant orator,very charismatic,a man of fantastivc abilities,and also at the time a member of parliament and cabinet minister. he made a speech labelled by the press "the infamous rivers of blood speech" where he predicted that world wide in near future rivers of blood would flow in cities throughout the world if if immigration wasnt severely curtailed.he had enormous support from the populace,the guy in the street. but the administration villified him,demoted him,virtually destroyed him as contender for leadership and instead shipped him off to the shithole of britain ..northern ireland to serveas a minister there.so the inability or refusal to curb immigration isnt anything new.i agree your solution might be the best 1 but its unworkable unfortunately unless of course you live in extreme right or left wing country with equivalent of military dictatorship.....which brings us full circle back to where we started
isnt life sweet?
Don update your email address
The Gas
WELL Don, JOE; Awhile back I sat and listened to a young actress who had fallen into the evirament crap and beleif. She made all the protest and meeting and learned about how to protest and all. Listened to how alturnative feuls were the WAY to go. She went and bought 2 ELECTRIC cars for her family herself and her hubby. Her family consisted of herself hubby and 1 little cute yapper dog. She and hubby drove the cars thru the day and charged them up over nite! One nite about 3 A.M. her yapper dog kept raising hell and waking her up? She finally got up to she what was wrong and she looked out and her house was on fire! She ran back in to wake and get her hubby out and found that she couldn,t awake him! So she begain to drag him outside and finally got him out and found that her dog was still in the house! She ran back in looking for her yapper got him and made it back out before she almost passed out she said! She said she was astounded when she found that her cars being pluged in for the nite was what set the fires off! She said she begain to investigate the car company and found that the cars being pluged in over nite had set awhole lot of fires all across the country! She said she was shocked to learn about it and that they had no warnings or nothing and she had talked to the other owners and that they had no warnings either! SHE said that she had brought a law suit against the company. BUT they were still selling the cars without any warning to this day. So you want to be careful of what you buy out there. There is the hydro car being touted but who can pay 75000.00 bucks for one little kicked in the ass car? I guess you can leave part of your family home or make 2 tripes transporting them? and so on....I listened 40 yrs. ago to a top auto co. official on the news and they asked him about how they could get better milege with the cars? He said that in order to get true milege you had to lighten the cars by weight that the weight is what cost the fuel consumption. He also said that the lighter that you made the car you also made it alot more dangerous in a crash too! and so ....We have plenty of fuel we just need to exploit and use it. Look at cuba drilling off the coast of florida now BUT we can,t and we can,t keep them from it either! I think you will see the mexicans drill off the coast of california when they get off their lazy hinders and do it, while we sit and whine about about not having gas! The liberals have us standing still in the game of life while the world keeps on turning? and so on...The thought of I am for the little man is a noble thought BUT how many poor people have you seen hiring anybody? We will all ways have the poor with us due to bad luck business practices, whatever in this life BUT We have to be fair to the businessman too or he will just sit at home and be content to live off his interest and not have to bother and risk his money in stockes bonds business ventures. It,s the big payoff that get people to risk their time and money to do things, They do not do them for charity work. They do give to charity but that is not their business... and so on... bill
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Sam Brannan
- Greenhorn
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:59 am
- Location: Sutterville, California
Thank you, Sir!
Hi Joe,
Guess I picked a bad time to go out of town. Right after you compliment me on being brave enough to voice my opinion in a hostile environment, I go silent and appear to be the coward. Thank you for your kind words.
From what I've read that you've posted here, I believe that you are an honest and ethical man possesed of common sense (which my Grand Dad used to say "Is not all that common."). You too would be a welcome guest at my house, in my camp or on my claim. If you showed up for Thanksgiving dinner, I'd even save you your favorite part of the bird --the right wing!
Sam Brannan
Guess I picked a bad time to go out of town. Right after you compliment me on being brave enough to voice my opinion in a hostile environment, I go silent and appear to be the coward. Thank you for your kind words.
From what I've read that you've posted here, I believe that you are an honest and ethical man possesed of common sense (which my Grand Dad used to say "Is not all that common."). You too would be a welcome guest at my house, in my camp or on my claim. If you showed up for Thanksgiving dinner, I'd even save you your favorite part of the bird --the right wing!
Sam Brannan
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Sam Brannan
- Greenhorn
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:59 am
- Location: Sutterville, California
it is the doom of men that they forget
Bill,
I find it ironic that you talk about the "illegals" the way you do. You said:
>>When we send them back we make it plain to them if they are found in the USA illegle again they will be put in leg chaines and worked hard for the states for 5 yrs. and then sent back to where ever . If anyone is caught hiring them without proper ID,s they will be fined and put in jail for 5 yrs,. period... <<
The reason I find it ironic is you're from Oklahoma. During the "dust bowl" and depression years of the thirties out here in California, the same thing was being said by the majority about the "Okies" that had migrated out here looking for work. (Could that be the root of YOUR intense hatred of California?)
Many in Oklahoma were thrown out into the road because it was more profitable to work the same amount of land with one man on a caterpillar than with many families of share-croppers. So out into the road they went, by the hundreds of thousands. But according to you that was perfectly fine, since "a business is not a welfare organization, when you're no longer needed, too bad."
Considering what happened to so many of your fellow Oklahomans, how can you think that way about the poor Mexican that comes here just trying to scratch out a meager living for him and his family? Are Oklahomans inherently "worth" more than Mexicans?
Sam Brannan
I find it ironic that you talk about the "illegals" the way you do. You said:
>>When we send them back we make it plain to them if they are found in the USA illegle again they will be put in leg chaines and worked hard for the states for 5 yrs. and then sent back to where ever . If anyone is caught hiring them without proper ID,s they will be fined and put in jail for 5 yrs,. period... <<
The reason I find it ironic is you're from Oklahoma. During the "dust bowl" and depression years of the thirties out here in California, the same thing was being said by the majority about the "Okies" that had migrated out here looking for work. (Could that be the root of YOUR intense hatred of California?)
Many in Oklahoma were thrown out into the road because it was more profitable to work the same amount of land with one man on a caterpillar than with many families of share-croppers. So out into the road they went, by the hundreds of thousands. But according to you that was perfectly fine, since "a business is not a welfare organization, when you're no longer needed, too bad."
Considering what happened to so many of your fellow Oklahomans, how can you think that way about the poor Mexican that comes here just trying to scratch out a meager living for him and his family? Are Oklahomans inherently "worth" more than Mexicans?
Sam Brannan
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Breast Man
Sam,
I cook two or three turkeys every Thanksgiving, deep fried mostly. I never eat the legs, left or right. Go for the middle of the bird, so to speak. I am well known as being a breast man. Keeps me close to the heart of the matter.
"Are Oklahomans inherently "worth" more than Mexicans?"
Why, yes.... they are. In this country, there are still some advantages to being a citizen that are not extended to non-citizens. The same is true in Mexico. No need to enumerate those advantages to you.....unless you are actually from another country and have not taken the time or effort to learn about America or being an American.
We will eventually shut down the border completely but it may take a few thousand more dead Americans to drag the politicians, kicking and screaming, to that long overdue necessity. The drug traffic alone is reason enough.
Mexico has made its own bed, and they must be forced to lie in it. When the poor people of Mexico finally decide they have had enough of leaders like Fox and living in squalor, they will do something about it. Pretty much like we did here.
We have a right to be, and to live, in this country. The Mexicans do not. It is really that simple. The "Okies" had the right to leave Oklahoma and move to California. The Mexicans don't. What part of "Illegal" don't you understand.
Your problem, like many others, is that you don't recognize the difference between Mexico and Oklahoma or Arizona or California or Texas.......
For many of those who are INVADING our country, they have the same problem as you. That would be.....no clue.
Bill, as he often is, is right on the money here.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I cook two or three turkeys every Thanksgiving, deep fried mostly. I never eat the legs, left or right. Go for the middle of the bird, so to speak. I am well known as being a breast man. Keeps me close to the heart of the matter.
"Are Oklahomans inherently "worth" more than Mexicans?"
Why, yes.... they are. In this country, there are still some advantages to being a citizen that are not extended to non-citizens. The same is true in Mexico. No need to enumerate those advantages to you.....unless you are actually from another country and have not taken the time or effort to learn about America or being an American.
We will eventually shut down the border completely but it may take a few thousand more dead Americans to drag the politicians, kicking and screaming, to that long overdue necessity. The drug traffic alone is reason enough.
Mexico has made its own bed, and they must be forced to lie in it. When the poor people of Mexico finally decide they have had enough of leaders like Fox and living in squalor, they will do something about it. Pretty much like we did here.
We have a right to be, and to live, in this country. The Mexicans do not. It is really that simple. The "Okies" had the right to leave Oklahoma and move to California. The Mexicans don't. What part of "Illegal" don't you understand.
Your problem, like many others, is that you don't recognize the difference between Mexico and Oklahoma or Arizona or California or Texas.......
For many of those who are INVADING our country, they have the same problem as you. That would be.....no clue.
Bill, as he often is, is right on the money here.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Sam Brannan
- Greenhorn
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:59 am
- Location: Sutterville, California
Now you've crossed the line
Joe,
What are you saying? That I'm not an American because I don't agree with your racist beliefs?
You have no idea who you're talking to. Let me enlighten you. The first of my ancestors to come to this country was one of the original settlers in Jamestown, 1607. My ancestors fought and died to FOUND this country. Every generation of my family have had members in the United States military going all the way back to the REVOLUTIONARY WAR. Well over a hundred of them died fighting for this country so that YOU have freedom. And you use that freedom to insult their descendant and say that he isn't an American because he doesn't agree with your racist opinions.
Other than founding a small town in southern California, what great contribution has your family made to this country? I have put up with all of your insults directed at me, save one. Don't you ever accuse or even imply that I'm not an American. It is my birthright to be called an American because of the 400 years of commitment and sacrifice made by my family for ALL people who wish to be called Americans. Even you.
I'm waiting for my apology.
Sam Brannan
What are you saying? That I'm not an American because I don't agree with your racist beliefs?
You have no idea who you're talking to. Let me enlighten you. The first of my ancestors to come to this country was one of the original settlers in Jamestown, 1607. My ancestors fought and died to FOUND this country. Every generation of my family have had members in the United States military going all the way back to the REVOLUTIONARY WAR. Well over a hundred of them died fighting for this country so that YOU have freedom. And you use that freedom to insult their descendant and say that he isn't an American because he doesn't agree with your racist opinions.
Other than founding a small town in southern California, what great contribution has your family made to this country? I have put up with all of your insults directed at me, save one. Don't you ever accuse or even imply that I'm not an American. It is my birthright to be called an American because of the 400 years of commitment and sacrifice made by my family for ALL people who wish to be called Americans. Even you.
I'm waiting for my apology.
Sam Brannan
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Sorry?
Sam,
Before taking offense to something someonne writes about you, it is propably a good idea to be able to read.
"Why, yes.... they are. In this country, there are still some advantages to being a citizen that are not extended to non-citizens. The same is true in Mexico. No need to enumerate those advantages to you.....unless you are actually from another country and have not taken the time or effort to learn about America or being an American."
If it hops like a frog, sounds like a frog and smells like a frog....it is probably a frog. If you don't want to be accused of being a frog......
"What are you saying? That I'm not an American because I don't agree with your racist beliefs?"
Nice spin on what I said, but it's obvious that all your dogs aren't barking.
I did not say you were not an American and I did not say a single "racist" word. It would be interesting to hear what you believe was "racist" in my post.
Your blood line is impressive, but it has nothing to do with the person that you have turned out to be. Are you saying that your ancestors died so that anyone who wanted to come to this country could ignore our imigration policy and laws and just walk in? "What part of illegal don't you understand"?
How quickly some people who, when they run out of facts (the truth), sink into the gutter and start shouting vile names.
It's obvious who I am talking to, has been from the start.
There is not a single thing wrong with my post and there is nothing to apologize for. You are the one who should be apologizing.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Before taking offense to something someonne writes about you, it is propably a good idea to be able to read.
"Why, yes.... they are. In this country, there are still some advantages to being a citizen that are not extended to non-citizens. The same is true in Mexico. No need to enumerate those advantages to you.....unless you are actually from another country and have not taken the time or effort to learn about America or being an American."
If it hops like a frog, sounds like a frog and smells like a frog....it is probably a frog.
If you don't want to be accused of being a frog......"What are you saying? That I'm not an American because I don't agree with your racist beliefs?"
Nice spin on what I said, but it's obvious that all your dogs aren't barking.
I did not say you were not an American and I did not say a single "racist" word. It would be interesting to hear what you believe was "racist" in my post.
Your blood line is impressive, but it has nothing to do with the person that you have turned out to be. Are you saying that your ancestors died so that anyone who wanted to come to this country could ignore our imigration policy and laws and just walk in? "What part of illegal don't you understand"?
How quickly some people who, when they run out of facts (the truth), sink into the gutter and start shouting vile names.
It's obvious who I am talking to, has been from the start.
There is not a single thing wrong with my post and there is nothing to apologize for. You are the one who should be apologizing.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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JIM HAMRICK
- Part Timer
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- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:46 am
- Location: phoenix
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gas war
Mr. Brannan. I must backup Mr. Riboudo's post on 5-18. I see nowhere that states that you are not an American. What I believe Mr. Riboudo was saying is that you seem to be a globalist and think that there should be no boundaries.
Your linage is impressive and I mean that in a positive way. I have thought that having an intimate knowledge of my relatives would be great. I do not know my past family much beyond my grand parents, but from the little I do know, it could be possible that my kin met the boat that brought your relatives to America.
My family was part of the "Okie" invasion of the west that started in the thirties and went well past World War 2. I do know as a fact that the "Okies" were looked down on by the long time residents of the west. We "Okies" did bring a strong work ethic and did any and everything that was legal to feed the family.
I have seen the Bracero program up close and can tell you that most of the Mexican Nationals were hard working good people, some were worthless. They were all here legally and returned to Mexico after a set time period. Today's Nationals come to this country by breaking the laws of the U.S. and have made it more difficult for U. S. citizens. I have a daughter in Oklahoma that works 2 jobs and puts in 60 plus hours a week to have enough money to raise my 2 Grandchildren. The illegals have such a presence in Oklahoma that making a living is getting harder and harder to do.
Make no mistake, we are in the middle of a war for the Southwest. This is the stated goals of some of the sponsers that are backing the illegals that are protesting America. I am fearful that we are on the verge of an armed conflict if the politicians of this country do not find a way out of this mess that is accceptable. Since I have lost confidence in the politicians, I worry a lot.
Jim Hamrick
Your linage is impressive and I mean that in a positive way. I have thought that having an intimate knowledge of my relatives would be great. I do not know my past family much beyond my grand parents, but from the little I do know, it could be possible that my kin met the boat that brought your relatives to America.
My family was part of the "Okie" invasion of the west that started in the thirties and went well past World War 2. I do know as a fact that the "Okies" were looked down on by the long time residents of the west. We "Okies" did bring a strong work ethic and did any and everything that was legal to feed the family.
I have seen the Bracero program up close and can tell you that most of the Mexican Nationals were hard working good people, some were worthless. They were all here legally and returned to Mexico after a set time period. Today's Nationals come to this country by breaking the laws of the U.S. and have made it more difficult for U. S. citizens. I have a daughter in Oklahoma that works 2 jobs and puts in 60 plus hours a week to have enough money to raise my 2 Grandchildren. The illegals have such a presence in Oklahoma that making a living is getting harder and harder to do.
Make no mistake, we are in the middle of a war for the Southwest. This is the stated goals of some of the sponsers that are backing the illegals that are protesting America. I am fearful that we are on the verge of an armed conflict if the politicians of this country do not find a way out of this mess that is accceptable. Since I have lost confidence in the politicians, I worry a lot.
Jim Hamrick
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Joe Ribaudo
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Nice Post
Jim,
That was a very "even handed" post to Sam. Your passion for the subject was held just below the surface of your comments, but was nevertheless, obvious.
Having a long, patriotic bloodline is a wonderful thing. Many Americans are blessed with such a family history. That does not necessarily mean they are worthy of shinning the shoes of those ancestors. Many of them died to protect our borders and way of life.
Being born in the United States does not make you an "American". Being "American" is something that is born inside you.
You did a fine job of expressing my position, but I doubt Sam will see it that way.
Thank you.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
That was a very "even handed" post to Sam. Your passion for the subject was held just below the surface of your comments, but was nevertheless, obvious.
Having a long, patriotic bloodline is a wonderful thing. Many Americans are blessed with such a family history. That does not necessarily mean they are worthy of shinning the shoes of those ancestors. Many of them died to protect our borders and way of life.
Being born in the United States does not make you an "American". Being "American" is something that is born inside you.
You did a fine job of expressing my position, but I doubt Sam will see it that way.
Thank you.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
GAAAASSS
Sam; I am a proud american If you cannot tell the difference between me and a illegle mexican then I have my doubts about who and what you are???? I live in america and some of my people met the mayflower here! I do not hate california BUT I do hate some of the stupid sh--t that comes out of the state. I do not hate the mexican but I do want them here LEGALLY! They have been told enough times to come legally for over 20 yrs. now. YOU can have all the laws you want BUT if you do not put some teeth and punishment in them and ENFORCEMENT then those mexi,s will not obey them, the laws. If we have to put them in chains and whip their a-ses alittle to discourage them then so be it. ALL that I ask of the mexi,s is for them to stay on their side of the border! If they want to come here then they can apply for admittance according to the laws of our country. They think because there is a mob of them that they cannot be controlled but that is not so? DO you want our country to be so over run with illegle aliens that we become a 3rd world country? That,s what we will become. OPEN your eyes SAM look at what is happening in germany-france-and britian today they had open borders for yrs trying to be good to everyone. WE have 20 to 30 million of them "mexicans or spanish speaking people" here now. They are demanding we change our way of life to suit them. They do not think they should have to obey our laws or even speak our lanuage even. We should learn spanish so they will not be put out. SAM there was not that many okies who went to california, They came from misouri-texas-Arkansas- and Kansas BUT they were all called OKIES. Sam what is your hangup on foregners? Do we not have enough in our country to worry about ? Where do you get it that we are responsible for the mexis? They have their own govmt. to take care of them BUT they want to send their problems here to me and expect me to pay for it. WELL excuse me I do not feel like paying for them. YOU want them here I do not KNOW how is it that YOUR vote out weighs mine so much that you can welcome them in in mobs and dispence them out to the rest of us when we do not want them? Do you think your vote is bigger or better than mine? enough for now folks. bill711
Gaaasssed up Sam
Sam I forgot to tell you that an old man who is a member of my brothers church goes to mexico every winter because of his arthoritus. He lives with the poor indians down there that the mexi,s and their government lets starve. Every year before he goes we all contribute toys, cloths, candy, and money for the poor indi,s that he and his wife stay with. Now having said that I still would not want them drug up here to be droped off in my face to take care of. I have had spanish neighbers and I have helped them when they came to me for help and did it at my own time and expense. I have nothing against the people south of the border at all; I just want them to stay where they belong at home in mexico or where ever. If they want to come here then obey the laws and come legally. I would not care if they were WHITE people I would still feel the same way. I for one do not think of the more the merrier is BETTER. I think that codition requires more laws and everything; It delutes the quality of life. I do not want to live with wall to wall people like they do in Hong Kong. SAM we cannot take in everyone who wants to be here! We would be over run with all the people and would be a 4th rate country over nite. When you get the people here you can not get rid of them either; the egg is broken. OUR great country would not be so great anymore. I don,t want my ggreat grand children to live 15 to one small room, do you? Sam you gave yourself away when you called JOE a racist is he a noxie too? bill
Have to agree with Jim,Joe,and Bill on this issue. Not sure where the term illegals came from. Probably from the liberals in San Fransisco. You know. That place in California where if you happen to drop your wallet on the ground by accident, you make sure you kick it across the bridge into Oakland before you bend over to pick it up. Where I live illegals are called Wetbacks.
Gaaasssss
WELL BOYS; If I had a friend who lived in Califoria and a friend who was in jail in Arkansas; I would break the one out of California first and then get the one in Arkansas a lawyer. We have many people coming back to Oklahoma now that they can retire. They are happy to pay 500,000 for a little plot of 40 acres that would sell for 40,000 and that would be a great price on it. You would probiley have to give them real sweet terms to get them to take it. Most of the people coming back only live a couple of years and seem to come down with cancre and die for some reason. T C I wish you luck you will sure need it living around that place it sure has become a cess pool there. ALOT of the so called stars around there come to our mid western snow sking parks to ecape the sewage and then go back and tell all their real good friends and they buy and move in ; then the parks become sewage communities just like the big frisco. NOT worth spit... Califoria will bring it,s own crap with it! If you do not like it and protest then you are a homo phobe or racist or a noxie pig. YOU can not be a white up standing guy who wants to do the right thing anymore why? Because people like rosey O,donald-OOphria Winfrey-Hillary Clintonoid and people of that ilk says you are, that,s why! Also a few queers from Frisco say so too... you are a party pooper too. bill
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Sam Brannan
- Greenhorn
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- Location: Sutterville, California
answer to the gang of four
Mr Hamrick,
I disagree. When I asked Bill whether Oklahomans were worth more than Mexicans, Joe replied "yes they are." The fact is Oklahomans have more legal rights in the U.S. than Mexican nationals. But Joe made no mention of this fact. He only said one group of people is worth more than another. That's racist.
Since I believe that all men are created equal and this opinion is different than his, Joe assumes that I must be "from another country" and that "I have not taken the time to learn about America or what it means to be an American." That is the insult to which I refer.
The Declaration of Independence states: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Those are Thomas Jefferson's words not mine and is part of the cornerstone on which this country was founded. If one believes in the ideals contained in the Declaration of Independance, how can Oklahomans be worth more than Mexicans since "all men are created equal?"
I'll bet California has 10-20 times the number of Mexicans as Oklahoma. I've heard stories of factories in LA that hire a hundred illegals, tell them they get paid once a month, and then call INS the day before payday and have their own factory raided so they don't have to meet payroll. Who's the more dispicable, the poor illegal who got ripped off, or the greedy factory owner?
I'm sorry your daughter is having a hard time making ends meet. I believe that everyone, including your daughter, should be paid a living wage for only 40 hrs of work per week. Isn't how much she's being paid controlled by the owner of the business she's working for? If her wages are being driven down by her employer's hiring of illegal workers, why doesn't she call the INS and have the place raided?
The illegals are an easy target, and I don't deny that it is a problem, but I don't see it as the biggest problem. The biggest problem is GREED. Case in point is the Wal-mart Waltons. The 5 of them have what 100, 150 billion all tied up in that one family. That's enough to make everyone in Norman a millionaire and STILL leave the Waltons more money than they'll ever need. The interest alone on that money would provide everyone in Tulsa with a $50,000 annual income. They pay their employees poverty wages, push their healthcare costs onto the U.S. taxpayers and pocket an obscene amount of profit. That doesn't even consider how many American jobs have been sent to China by W-M's purchasing of Chinese made goods. Now a billion Chinese are living comfortably off the American jobs sent there, are buying cars and putting a big pinch on the world oil market. Hard to blame that on the illegals.
Have you ever wondered why so many Mexicans come here. In Mexico 95% of the money is controlled by 5% of the people. Let greed go unchecked and the same thing will happen here.
Sam Brannan
I disagree. When I asked Bill whether Oklahomans were worth more than Mexicans, Joe replied "yes they are." The fact is Oklahomans have more legal rights in the U.S. than Mexican nationals. But Joe made no mention of this fact. He only said one group of people is worth more than another. That's racist.
Since I believe that all men are created equal and this opinion is different than his, Joe assumes that I must be "from another country" and that "I have not taken the time to learn about America or what it means to be an American." That is the insult to which I refer.
The Declaration of Independence states: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Those are Thomas Jefferson's words not mine and is part of the cornerstone on which this country was founded. If one believes in the ideals contained in the Declaration of Independance, how can Oklahomans be worth more than Mexicans since "all men are created equal?"
I'll bet California has 10-20 times the number of Mexicans as Oklahoma. I've heard stories of factories in LA that hire a hundred illegals, tell them they get paid once a month, and then call INS the day before payday and have their own factory raided so they don't have to meet payroll. Who's the more dispicable, the poor illegal who got ripped off, or the greedy factory owner?
I'm sorry your daughter is having a hard time making ends meet. I believe that everyone, including your daughter, should be paid a living wage for only 40 hrs of work per week. Isn't how much she's being paid controlled by the owner of the business she's working for? If her wages are being driven down by her employer's hiring of illegal workers, why doesn't she call the INS and have the place raided?
The illegals are an easy target, and I don't deny that it is a problem, but I don't see it as the biggest problem. The biggest problem is GREED. Case in point is the Wal-mart Waltons. The 5 of them have what 100, 150 billion all tied up in that one family. That's enough to make everyone in Norman a millionaire and STILL leave the Waltons more money than they'll ever need. The interest alone on that money would provide everyone in Tulsa with a $50,000 annual income. They pay their employees poverty wages, push their healthcare costs onto the U.S. taxpayers and pocket an obscene amount of profit. That doesn't even consider how many American jobs have been sent to China by W-M's purchasing of Chinese made goods. Now a billion Chinese are living comfortably off the American jobs sent there, are buying cars and putting a big pinch on the world oil market. Hard to blame that on the illegals.
Have you ever wondered why so many Mexicans come here. In Mexico 95% of the money is controlled by 5% of the people. Let greed go unchecked and the same thing will happen here.
Sam Brannan
just a thought ....its wrong for hispanics to invade america (illegally) albeit it comparabley peacefully....but right for americans to invade iraq (illegally and with force)?it seems "being american" to some people means always being right no matter what the issue is or what the outcome is. thank goodness the tide of public opinion seems to be turning,
Don update your email address
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
More "Facts"?
Sam,
Still spinning, I see.
You said:
"I disagree. When I asked Bill whether Oklahomans were worth more than Mexicans, Joe replied "yes they are." The fact is Oklahomans have more legal rights in the U.S. than Mexican nationals. But Joe made no mention of this fact. He only said one group of people is worth more than another. That's racist."
What I actually said was:
"Why, yes.... they are. In this country, there are still some advantages to being a citizen that are not extended to non-citizens. The same is true in Mexico. No need to enumerate those advantages to you.....unless you are actually from another country and have not taken the time or effort to learn about America or being an American."
It would seem that I did need to "enumerate" those advantages, to you.
I will pass on that little lesson, as it would be a waste of time.
"I've heard stories of factories in LA that hire a hundred illegals, tell them they get paid once a month, and then call INS the day before payday and have their own factory raided so they don't have to meet payroll. Who's the more dispicable, the poor illegal who got ripped off, or the greedy factory owner?"
Really! Name one "factory owner" or factory where that has been done.
Tell us where you have heard these "stories".
The Germans used to tell their soldiers that Americans would kill and eat their babies, knowing that some (idiots) would believe those stories and fight harder. It's a trick that works well with the simple minded.
Jim said:
"I have a daughter in Oklahoma that works 2 jobs and puts in 60 plus hours a week to have enough money to raise my 2 Grandchildren. The illegals have such a presence in Oklahoma that making a living is getting harder and harder to do."
Your reply:
"I'm sorry your daughter is having a hard time making ends meet. I believe that everyone, including your daughter, should be paid a living wage for only 40 hrs of work per week. Isn't how much she's being paid controlled by the owner of the business she's working for? If her wages are being driven down by her employer's hiring of illegal workers, why doesn't she call the INS and have the place raided?" (emphasis in bold by Joe)
Perhaps you can tell us exactly where Jim said that his daughter's employer was hiring "illegal workers"? Before you comment on a man's written words, you should be able to do more than read them. It would be helpful, if you could understand the meaning of what he has written.
There is a bigger picture we are talking about here. Small minds would have a hard time grasping that fact. They would cling to, and focus on, small parts of what is being said, just as you have.
You have tried to paint a picture of yourself here, that does not match the reality of who you are. As usual, your words expose you. If it hops like a frog........
There are places in this world where your rhetoric would find a warm, fuzzy home. Places like Iran, Korea, China..... Even you can get the picture here. Did I leave out California?
Joe Ribaudo
Still spinning, I see.
You said:
"I disagree. When I asked Bill whether Oklahomans were worth more than Mexicans, Joe replied "yes they are." The fact is Oklahomans have more legal rights in the U.S. than Mexican nationals. But Joe made no mention of this fact. He only said one group of people is worth more than another. That's racist."
What I actually said was:
"Why, yes.... they are. In this country, there are still some advantages to being a citizen that are not extended to non-citizens. The same is true in Mexico. No need to enumerate those advantages to you.....unless you are actually from another country and have not taken the time or effort to learn about America or being an American."
It would seem that I did need to "enumerate" those advantages, to you.
I will pass on that little lesson, as it would be a waste of time.
"I've heard stories of factories in LA that hire a hundred illegals, tell them they get paid once a month, and then call INS the day before payday and have their own factory raided so they don't have to meet payroll. Who's the more dispicable, the poor illegal who got ripped off, or the greedy factory owner?"
Really! Name one "factory owner" or factory where that has been done.
Tell us where you have heard these "stories".
The Germans used to tell their soldiers that Americans would kill and eat their babies, knowing that some (idiots) would believe those stories and fight harder. It's a trick that works well with the simple minded.
Jim said:
"I have a daughter in Oklahoma that works 2 jobs and puts in 60 plus hours a week to have enough money to raise my 2 Grandchildren. The illegals have such a presence in Oklahoma that making a living is getting harder and harder to do."
Your reply:
"I'm sorry your daughter is having a hard time making ends meet. I believe that everyone, including your daughter, should be paid a living wage for only 40 hrs of work per week. Isn't how much she's being paid controlled by the owner of the business she's working for? If her wages are being driven down by her employer's hiring of illegal workers, why doesn't she call the INS and have the place raided?" (emphasis in bold by Joe)
Perhaps you can tell us exactly where Jim said that his daughter's employer was hiring "illegal workers"? Before you comment on a man's written words, you should be able to do more than read them. It would be helpful, if you could understand the meaning of what he has written.
There is a bigger picture we are talking about here. Small minds would have a hard time grasping that fact. They would cling to, and focus on, small parts of what is being said, just as you have.
You have tried to paint a picture of yourself here, that does not match the reality of who you are. As usual, your words expose you. If it hops like a frog........
There are places in this world where your rhetoric would find a warm, fuzzy home. Places like Iran, Korea, China..... Even you can get the picture here. Did I leave out California?
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
History
Don,
At least you have the excuse of living in another country.
You left out the part where we are eating the babies in Iraq.
Don't mistake the American Press for American "public opinion". Many others have, just before we kick their collective asses and free a few million people.
You folks, over there, like to sit on your hands and talk, talk, talk, while people are getting hacked to death with machetes and garden hoes. When it's your turn, the U.N. will (surely) step in and save you with a "legal" war.
Perhaps you should lead an effort to free Saddam. That would show us!
At some point in time you will turn your attention to Iran. Like the rest of your kind, it will only happen after they kill millions of "others". History has a way of repeating itself. Some, like you and Sam, never learn those lessons.
It's a sad world.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
At least you have the excuse of living in another country.
You left out the part where we are eating the babies in Iraq.
Don't mistake the American Press for American "public opinion". Many others have, just before we kick their collective asses and free a few million people.
You folks, over there, like to sit on your hands and talk, talk, talk, while people are getting hacked to death with machetes and garden hoes. When it's your turn, the U.N. will (surely) step in and save you with a "legal" war.
Perhaps you should lead an effort to free Saddam. That would show us!
At some point in time you will turn your attention to Iran. Like the rest of your kind, it will only happen after they kill millions of "others". History has a way of repeating itself. Some, like you and Sam, never learn those lessons.
It's a sad world.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
joe,
i never did believe those stories of "baby eating" they were prob a little exaggerated anyway
my pouint was the mexican issue is an issue, but if american administrations act illegally and are supported by the electorate ,then it seems rather hypocritical for that very same electorateto complain when others do the same.
as for "us lot" sitting on our hands over here, may history remind you that britain was the only european country to hold fast against nazi germany ,at a time when germany held all the aces,unlike SOME countries who only go to war against less advanced countries ,or as a possible alternative enter a war when the outcome is allready clear ,or as another alternative ,when ,as in the last war ,only when (a) hitler declared war on america or (b) japan attacked pearl harbour...when they were forced to enter the fray. but of course when they so often enter into ill thought out actions iraq, as in vietnam they get beaten,because theyve never yet realised that superior force and "john wayne cliches" arebnt alone enough to win a war. and before we hear the "america beat nazi germany cry, any student knows that russia was the main cause of germanys demise,without them wed prob still be fighting ww2
as for iran, well the nuclear cat is out thebag isnt it? u cant uninvent it. and prob from a neutral point of view i guess iran is as much entitled to have it as we are, if we stopped trying to make the middle east a part of the western world, maybe they wouldnt feel so threatened, and maybe the fanatics wouldnt have a cause to espouse? we have created more terrorists in middle east by our own actions than ever existed beforehand...
i agree with you that californa is indeed a madhouse, but compared to shitty old texas ,it is indeed a veritable paradise,a state(texas) i had the misfortune to visit(work related) on several occasions.
i never did believe those stories of "baby eating" they were prob a little exaggerated anyway
my pouint was the mexican issue is an issue, but if american administrations act illegally and are supported by the electorate ,then it seems rather hypocritical for that very same electorateto complain when others do the same.
as for "us lot" sitting on our hands over here, may history remind you that britain was the only european country to hold fast against nazi germany ,at a time when germany held all the aces,unlike SOME countries who only go to war against less advanced countries ,or as a possible alternative enter a war when the outcome is allready clear ,or as another alternative ,when ,as in the last war ,only when (a) hitler declared war on america or (b) japan attacked pearl harbour...when they were forced to enter the fray. but of course when they so often enter into ill thought out actions iraq, as in vietnam they get beaten,because theyve never yet realised that superior force and "john wayne cliches" arebnt alone enough to win a war. and before we hear the "america beat nazi germany cry, any student knows that russia was the main cause of germanys demise,without them wed prob still be fighting ww2
as for iran, well the nuclear cat is out thebag isnt it? u cant uninvent it. and prob from a neutral point of view i guess iran is as much entitled to have it as we are, if we stopped trying to make the middle east a part of the western world, maybe they wouldnt feel so threatened, and maybe the fanatics wouldnt have a cause to espouse? we have created more terrorists in middle east by our own actions than ever existed beforehand...
i agree with you that californa is indeed a madhouse, but compared to shitty old texas ,it is indeed a veritable paradise,a state(texas) i had the misfortune to visit(work related) on several occasions.
Don update your email address
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Holding Fast
Don,
I think you could be right here. I remember now that England and France showed a united front when Germany overran Poland. I think they actually declared war, and then they.........."sat on their hands".
Any real "student" know that Hitler was the main cause of "germanys demise". What was Russia's part in the D-Day invasion? I forget.
You blokes never really needed us in the fray at all. Turned the whole war around at a place called Dunkirk, as I recall.
I am beginning to see this "American" thing Sam's and your way. We really are an evil country. Far as I am concerned we should just pull every soldier out every country, bring them home, kick the U.N. out of our homeland and stop sending our money to others. Where do I go to place my vote?
Just close this place up tighter than a duck's ass. Yea, that's the ticket.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I think you could be right here. I remember now that England and France showed a united front when Germany overran Poland. I think they actually declared war, and then they.........."sat on their hands".
Any real "student" know that Hitler was the main cause of "germanys demise". What was Russia's part in the D-Day invasion? I forget.
You blokes never really needed us in the fray at all. Turned the whole war around at a place called Dunkirk, as I recall.
I am beginning to see this "American" thing Sam's and your way. We really are an evil country. Far as I am concerned we should just pull every soldier out every country, bring them home, kick the U.N. out of our homeland and stop sending our money to others. Where do I go to place my vote?
Just close this place up tighter than a duck's ass.
Yea, that's the ticket.Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo