After reading several posts mentioning Sen. McCain as a war hero, I came to realize that I don't know what he did to be a hero. I know he was a prisoner for several years. An awful experience, to be sure. But to be a hero, it seems like you have to do something heroic. Rescue someone under fire, charge the pillbox, etc. What was it that John McCain did to rate being a hero, as opposed to a POW?
No flames, please. I'm not disrespecting Sen. McCain. I really don't know. Is he a hero in the same sense that everyone who serves in wartime is, or was there something outstanding that he did?
John McCain
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Joe Ribaudo
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Hero?
Wiz,
There are many who would argue that John McCain is no hero. They could be right.
Having served a tour in Vietnam, and having a brother in law who flew missions over North Vietnam, I feel I have a little more insight into what might be considered "heroic" duty in that theater.
John McCain flew 22 missions over North Vietnam before being shot down over Truc Bach Lake, close to Hanoi in 1967. Having spoken to my brother in law, I know what McCain had to fly through to complete his missions. That alone qualifies as "heroic".
McCain was tortured by the North Vietnamese while imprisoned. He may have "broken" under that torture. Heroic? Perhaps not. Not having had to endure that treatment myself, I would not feel qualified to comment.
When given the chance to be released, McCain refused. He would not come home while others who had been in captivity longer than himself were still imprisoned. Considering the torture, I feel that qualifies John as a hero, and the men that went home in his place, may have an opinion.
There has been a great deal written concerning John McCain, both positive and negative. He has written a bit himself. If you are interested, you might look up his book: "Why Courage Matters".
Respectfully,
Joe
There are many who would argue that John McCain is no hero. They could be right.
Having served a tour in Vietnam, and having a brother in law who flew missions over North Vietnam, I feel I have a little more insight into what might be considered "heroic" duty in that theater.
John McCain flew 22 missions over North Vietnam before being shot down over Truc Bach Lake, close to Hanoi in 1967. Having spoken to my brother in law, I know what McCain had to fly through to complete his missions. That alone qualifies as "heroic".
McCain was tortured by the North Vietnamese while imprisoned. He may have "broken" under that torture. Heroic? Perhaps not. Not having had to endure that treatment myself, I would not feel qualified to comment.
When given the chance to be released, McCain refused. He would not come home while others who had been in captivity longer than himself were still imprisoned. Considering the torture, I feel that qualifies John as a hero, and the men that went home in his place, may have an opinion.
There has been a great deal written concerning John McCain, both positive and negative. He has written a bit himself. If you are interested, you might look up his book: "Why Courage Matters".
Respectfully,
Joe
Mc Cains service to the USA is not without heroics.
His military and public service record is documented.
John's present public feelings may not follow the "history" of
his past public feelings.But he does reflect his present ideas thru the
media.Like it or not.ideas do change.And John tells it as he sees it now.
I wish other politicians would say what they mean now and not use what happened 30 years ago as a platform base to cover over the true concerns that effect us today.
John was tortured like many other combant fliers.He did not break under intense questioning.He was able to survive the broken arm and leg injuries that went untreated during his imprisonement,His arm was still broken and unhealed properly after his stay in the Hanoi hilton.He limps today because of the beatings his injured leg indured thru the years.
He has an axe to grind,but does not.He pisses off those who still seek
revenge.
His military and public service record is documented.
John's present public feelings may not follow the "history" of
his past public feelings.But he does reflect his present ideas thru the
media.Like it or not.ideas do change.And John tells it as he sees it now.
I wish other politicians would say what they mean now and not use what happened 30 years ago as a platform base to cover over the true concerns that effect us today.
John was tortured like many other combant fliers.He did not break under intense questioning.He was able to survive the broken arm and leg injuries that went untreated during his imprisonement,His arm was still broken and unhealed properly after his stay in the Hanoi hilton.He limps today because of the beatings his injured leg indured thru the years.
He has an axe to grind,but does not.He pisses off those who still seek
revenge.
john mclain
mclain; While I salute his service in v.n. I think he is a small petty spiteful man who is stubbern in his illness. He needs to be retired for good. He is constantly running for persident and think,s he is the media,s darling for opposing president Bush. He has been alining himself with the liberals more than his own party. He seems to think he was elected to the pres. Bill
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pippinwhitepaws
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mccain
to those who believe mc cain is not a hero...please reference the film of his being shot at while parked in his aircraft,on the deck of his carrier, preparing to launch on a mission....a misfired rocket dances across the deck, direct hit, explodes his plane.....scarie stuff....mccain then went on to fly more missions and was shot down.
he could have gone home, after the accident...all he had to do was ask...he didn't
i stood on the tarmak at sky harbor, and was among the 30 some
odd people, to welcome mc cain home from nam. it was hot, he looked like he had been imprisioned and tortured...and this was after his stay in the hospitial.
he could have gone home, after the accident...all he had to do was ask...he didn't
i stood on the tarmak at sky harbor, and was among the 30 some
odd people, to welcome mc cain home from nam. it was hot, he looked like he had been imprisioned and tortured...and this was after his stay in the hospitial.
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pippinwhitepaws
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lol. lookie what i just found...your still here, guess you lie.....
"I may have intentionally mislead a little, but I have not made a single statement that was an intentional lie. This will be my final post, but I will continue to monitor this best of the best forums.
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
"I may have intentionally mislead a little, but I have not made a single statement that was an intentional lie. This will be my final post, but I will continue to monitor this best of the best forums.
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
"he could have gone home, after the accident...all he had to do was ask...he didn't"
"i stood on the tarmak at sky harbor, and was among the 30 some
odd people, to welcome mc cain home from nam. it was hot, he looked like he had been imprisioned and tortured...and this was after his stay in the hospitial."
pippinwhitepaws,
I'm also a fan of John McCain and feel he served honorably under difficult circumstances.
He came home to Andrews AFB though, not sky harbor which is in Phoenix. In 1973 when McCain came home from Nam his home was in Maryland and hw was married to his first wife Carol. He didn't meet his second wife Cindy until 1980, and didn't move to Ariaona until 1982 when he took a job with his wife's father in his beer distributor business. McCain is a transplant from the Washington DC area, not an Arizona native. He went to school at Anapolis, married and lived in Maryland until after his divorce from Carol.
"i stood on the tarmak at sky harbor, and was among the 30 some
odd people, to welcome mc cain home from nam. it was hot, he looked like he had been imprisioned and tortured...and this was after his stay in the hospitial."
pippinwhitepaws,
I'm also a fan of John McCain and feel he served honorably under difficult circumstances.
He came home to Andrews AFB though, not sky harbor which is in Phoenix. In 1973 when McCain came home from Nam his home was in Maryland and hw was married to his first wife Carol. He didn't meet his second wife Cindy until 1980, and didn't move to Ariaona until 1982 when he took a job with his wife's father in his beer distributor business. McCain is a transplant from the Washington DC area, not an Arizona native. He went to school at Anapolis, married and lived in Maryland until after his divorce from Carol.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Facts......
Mark20,
"He came home to Andrews AFB though, not sky harbor which is in Phoenix. In 1973 when McCain came home from Nam his home was in Maryland and hw was married to his first wife Carol. He didn't meet his second wife Cindy until 1980, and didn't move to Ariaona until 1982 when he took a job with his wife's father in his beer distributor business. McCain is a transplant from the Washington DC area, not an Arizona native. He went to school at Anapolis, married and lived in Maryland until after his divorce from Carol."
Please don't confuse pwp with the facts. He has this illusion that he was one of only 29 other people to welcome John McCain home. I believe he should know what he is talking about. After all.......He is also a Veteran.
Anyone who has read the history of John McCain, was smiling at pwp's little story.
McCain took up with Cindy while still married to his first wife. She, unfortunately, was involved in a bad auto accident while he was overseas and hurt badly. When McCain finally returned home, she was much heavier and actually shorter.....At least that's the story I heard.
Welcome to the LDM Forum.
Joe Ribaudo
"He came home to Andrews AFB though, not sky harbor which is in Phoenix. In 1973 when McCain came home from Nam his home was in Maryland and hw was married to his first wife Carol. He didn't meet his second wife Cindy until 1980, and didn't move to Ariaona until 1982 when he took a job with his wife's father in his beer distributor business. McCain is a transplant from the Washington DC area, not an Arizona native. He went to school at Anapolis, married and lived in Maryland until after his divorce from Carol."
Please don't confuse pwp with the facts. He has this illusion that he was one of only 29 other people to welcome John McCain home. I believe he should know what he is talking about. After all.......He is also a Veteran.
Anyone who has read the history of John McCain, was smiling at pwp's little story.
McCain took up with Cindy while still married to his first wife. She, unfortunately, was involved in a bad auto accident while he was overseas and hurt badly. When McCain finally returned home, she was much heavier and actually shorter.....At least that's the story I heard.
Welcome to the LDM Forum.
Joe Ribaudo
Typical
Joe and Mark,
You realize, now that you pointed out the facts, the redirection will occur.
You will be called every name in the book in every combination possible. Since pwp was blatenly fabrcating his story your family members will probably come into play as well.
Your responses will somehow be associated with the President then you will be threatened.
Listening to these guys is kinda' like watching Groundhog Day.
I don't really know much about McCain but recently listened to an interview of him. When captured, he had multiple broken bones, both arms and ribs I believe. Stabbed by the locals as well. Tortured repeatedly. A waterboard wasn't mentioned but he was hung by his broken limbs.
Thanks for the facts Gentleman.
You realize, now that you pointed out the facts, the redirection will occur.
You will be called every name in the book in every combination possible. Since pwp was blatenly fabrcating his story your family members will probably come into play as well.
Your responses will somehow be associated with the President then you will be threatened.
Listening to these guys is kinda' like watching Groundhog Day.
I don't really know much about McCain but recently listened to an interview of him. When captured, he had multiple broken bones, both arms and ribs I believe. Stabbed by the locals as well. Tortured repeatedly. A waterboard wasn't mentioned but he was hung by his broken limbs.
Thanks for the facts Gentleman.
Joe Ribaudo and Knun,
I hope I didn't start any trouble, I was thinking maybe pippinwhitepaws was just mixed up on the airports, mistaken Andrews AFB in Maryland for Sky Harbor in Arizona. I get confused sometimes myself about things. Those tarmacks all tend to look alike anyway. I'm sure this won't reflect badly on pippinwhitepaws other posts or cause doubt about other statements he has made.
I hope I didn't start any trouble, I was thinking maybe pippinwhitepaws was just mixed up on the airports, mistaken Andrews AFB in Maryland for Sky Harbor in Arizona. I get confused sometimes myself about things. Those tarmacks all tend to look alike anyway. I'm sure this won't reflect badly on pippinwhitepaws other posts or cause doubt about other statements he has made.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Home Sweet Home.....
Mark,
"In 1973 when McCain came home from Nam his home was in Maryland and hw was married to his first wife Carol."
I believe the McCain's home was in Jacksonville, Florida at that time.
Are you a Dutch Hunter? If so, which part of the legends interest you the most?
Joe Ribaudo
"In 1973 when McCain came home from Nam his home was in Maryland and hw was married to his first wife Carol."
I believe the McCain's home was in Jacksonville, Florida at that time.
Are you a Dutch Hunter? If so, which part of the legends interest you the most?
Joe Ribaudo
Joe Ribaudo,
You are probably right on that count. John McCains "home" would have been where his wife Carol was living at the time when he was freed from captivity in 1973. I believe all the Naval airmen were assigned to Andrews AFB when released so they could be looked after at Bethesda Hospital and then either reassigned or discharged.
No, not an active Dutch hunter but do like to read all the stories about the legends.
Mark
You are probably right on that count. John McCains "home" would have been where his wife Carol was living at the time when he was freed from captivity in 1973. I believe all the Naval airmen were assigned to Andrews AFB when released so they could be looked after at Bethesda Hospital and then either reassigned or discharged.
No, not an active Dutch hunter but do like to read all the stories about the legends.
Mark
Warmongers
Joe,
these are your heroes...
murderous, warmongering scumbags, like yourself. Un-American, shit for brains killers with no respect for human life.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 7932.story
I know you support the death penalty for murder. Don't you agree that all three men should face the death penalty? They should, but they won't.
They are neither heroes nor patriots. They are the shit of the Earth, just like all warmongers. Of course, you will make sick excuses for their conduct...
that's what makes you a warmonger.
Brad
these are your heroes...
murderous, warmongering scumbags, like yourself. Un-American, shit for brains killers with no respect for human life.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 7932.story
I know you support the death penalty for murder. Don't you agree that all three men should face the death penalty? They should, but they won't.
They are neither heroes nor patriots. They are the shit of the Earth, just like all warmongers. Of course, you will make sick excuses for their conduct...
that's what makes you a warmonger.
Brad
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Joe Ribaudo
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Kid Stuff.......
Brad,
I appreciate your efforts to educate me in the ways of your world. I stopped visiting the sites you post, a long time ago.
Your reasoning and expression reveals the level of your true intelligence. It all seems to manifest itself after you appear to have bruised your head bumping up against a manhole cover.
You are wasting your valuable time here, but It may very well be that life has nothing else to offer you.
WHAT BECAME OF THE ORE SAMPLE YOU PROMISED ME?
In the final analyses, a man is only as good as his word. No matter what truths you may utter as you stumble through this word, who will remember them, if your word is not reliable.
Coming to a debate with a clear mind and precise vocabulary will advance your cause much farther than the invectives that clutter your thoughts and posts.
My best to Gloria,
Joe
I appreciate your efforts to educate me in the ways of your world. I stopped visiting the sites you post, a long time ago.
Your reasoning and expression reveals the level of your true intelligence. It all seems to manifest itself after you appear to have bruised your head bumping up against a manhole cover.
You are wasting your valuable time here, but It may very well be that life has nothing else to offer you.
WHAT BECAME OF THE ORE SAMPLE YOU PROMISED ME?
In the final analyses, a man is only as good as his word. No matter what truths you may utter as you stumble through this word, who will remember them, if your word is not reliable.
Coming to a debate with a clear mind and precise vocabulary will advance your cause much farther than the invectives that clutter your thoughts and posts.
My best to Gloria,
Joe
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pippinwhitepaws
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1) i posted when mc cain returned home...duh. reference where his father lived in 1975.
everyone has their idea of home. duh.
2) punkassjoey posted a man is only as good as his word..duh.
he posted the following years ago. shows who isn't good to his word, and all other posts from punkassjoey falls into the not good to his word group.
"I may have intentionally mislead a little, but I have not made a single statement that was an intentional lie. This will be my final post, but I will continue to monitor this best of the best forums.
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
everyone has their idea of home. duh.
2) punkassjoey posted a man is only as good as his word..duh.
he posted the following years ago. shows who isn't good to his word, and all other posts from punkassjoey falls into the not good to his word group.
"I may have intentionally mislead a little, but I have not made a single statement that was an intentional lie. This will be my final post, but I will continue to monitor this best of the best forums.
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
pippinwhitepaws,
1) i posted when mc cain returned home...duh. reference where his father lived in 1975.
" i stood on the tarmak at sky harbor, and was among the 30 some
odd people, to welcome mc cain home from nam."
John McCain came home fron "nam" March 21, 1973. To Andrews AFB just outside Washington DC. That was 19 months before 1975.
And John McCains father lived in Alexandria Virgina right up to when he was killed on a military transport flight in 1981, not Arizona.
Are you sure you have the right John McCain, the US Senator ? Or are you talking about a different John McCain ?
1) i posted when mc cain returned home...duh. reference where his father lived in 1975.
" i stood on the tarmak at sky harbor, and was among the 30 some
odd people, to welcome mc cain home from nam."
John McCain came home fron "nam" March 21, 1973. To Andrews AFB just outside Washington DC. That was 19 months before 1975.
And John McCains father lived in Alexandria Virgina right up to when he was killed on a military transport flight in 1981, not Arizona.
Are you sure you have the right John McCain, the US Senator ? Or are you talking about a different John McCain ?
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pippinwhitepaws
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well..i must live in another world..what color is the sun?
i went looking for material on mccain when i got home today and read the posts....
what i read is that the senior mccain was in serria vista in 1975..who knows...yes mc cain returned to a military airpark...he was still in service..and ill. he spent months in military hospitial prior to coming to arizona...
glad i am mistaken on this..what with mc cain going to israel to gather support for his presidential big.
sorry i posted about a veteran. what do i know?
i went looking for material on mccain when i got home today and read the posts....
what i read is that the senior mccain was in serria vista in 1975..who knows...yes mc cain returned to a military airpark...he was still in service..and ill. he spent months in military hospitial prior to coming to arizona...
glad i am mistaken on this..what with mc cain going to israel to gather support for his presidential big.
sorry i posted about a veteran. what do i know?
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Joe Ribaudo
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Must'a Been A Loooong Wait......
pwp,
I would not think to question the veracity of someone who stood waiting on the tarmac at Sky Harbor Airport for John McCain to return from Vietnam. I am also quite sure that someone who had done that, would know much more about the history of the McCain family than I would.
I assume that you were just mistaken about standing out there with thirty or so other people waiting to greet our returning war hero. Easy to see how a person could mistake something like that.
It's possible you might be getting a little confused about those events, but if you ever feel the need for a little refresher course, I would suggest you read "Man of the People: The Life of John McCain" by, Paul Alexander. There is a bit about John's father and grandfather as well. If you are able to understand and retain what you read, you will have a better idea of where all of the McCain's were living at the end of the Vietnam War.
Can't see the need for you to keep repeating that you are a Veteran. I think we are all, pretty much familiar with who you are, or were. Let me offer my personal thanks for your service.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to move to a subject you are a little more familiar with. Not really much left to discuss here, except for the occasional faux pas.
"Sorry I posted about a veteran. What do I know?"
Being a Veteran does not make you an expert on John McCain......or Joe Ribaudo, for that matter.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
I would not think to question the veracity of someone who stood waiting on the tarmac at Sky Harbor Airport for John McCain to return from Vietnam. I am also quite sure that someone who had done that, would know much more about the history of the McCain family than I would.
I assume that you were just mistaken about standing out there with thirty or so other people waiting to greet our returning war hero. Easy to see how a person could mistake something like that.
It's possible you might be getting a little confused about those events, but if you ever feel the need for a little refresher course, I would suggest you read "Man of the People: The Life of John McCain" by, Paul Alexander. There is a bit about John's father and grandfather as well. If you are able to understand and retain what you read, you will have a better idea of where all of the McCain's were living at the end of the Vietnam War.
Can't see the need for you to keep repeating that you are a Veteran. I think we are all, pretty much familiar with who you are, or were. Let me offer my personal thanks for your service.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to move to a subject you are a little more familiar with. Not really much left to discuss here, except for the occasional faux pas.
"Sorry I posted about a veteran. What do I know?"
Being a Veteran does not make you an expert on John McCain......or Joe Ribaudo, for that matter.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
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pippinwhitepaws
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pippinwhitepaws
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Joe Ribaudo
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Where????
pip,
When you say: "where you there punk? where any of your pissie firends there punksassjoe?", do you mean the tarmac at Sky Harbor Airport in 1975.....or somewhere else?
If you can focus on a reply to that question, I will do my best to give you a reply.
Thanks in advance,
Joe Ribaudo
When you say: "where you there punk? where any of your pissie firends there punksassjoe?", do you mean the tarmac at Sky Harbor Airport in 1975.....or somewhere else?
If you can focus on a reply to that question, I will do my best to give you a reply.
Thanks in advance,
Joe Ribaudo
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pippinwhitepaws
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"I may have intentionally mislead a little, but I have not made a single statement that was an intentional lie. This will be my final post, but I will continue to monitor this best of the best forums.
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
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pippinwhitepaws
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rather than continued efforts on your part to be the final word on everything punkassjoey...please follow your own words and go away.
" seem to be spending a lot of effort on attact and defence lately. Being the catalyst for the the intense rancor of late does not set well with me. This forum has been and is one of the things I look forward to each day.
I have made some friends which I hope to keep for the rest of my life, and it appears a few folks who will forget me tomorrow. I can live with that trade off. As for what I expected of this forum, I admit I received far more enlightenment then I returned to the members. I may have intentionally mislead a little, but I have not made a single statement that was an intentional lie. This will be my final post, but I will continue to monitor this best of the best forums.
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
" seem to be spending a lot of effort on attact and defence lately. Being the catalyst for the the intense rancor of late does not set well with me. This forum has been and is one of the things I look forward to each day.
I have made some friends which I hope to keep for the rest of my life, and it appears a few folks who will forget me tomorrow. I can live with that trade off. As for what I expected of this forum, I admit I received far more enlightenment then I returned to the members. I may have intentionally mislead a little, but I have not made a single statement that was an intentional lie. This will be my final post, but I will continue to monitor this best of the best forums.
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]"
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Joe Ribaudo
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Best Answer......
pip,
I see you won't be able to focus on a cognizant reply, so I will have to guess at where you were going with your thoughtful question.
I will assume you did not mean Sky Harbor, as no one I know would be stupid enough to stand out there waiting for someone who was flying to another part of the country. That being the case, I guess you are talking about Vietnam. Many of my friends were there. At the time they went, Uncle Sam was asking for volunteers, and my friends were all patriots. It was still popular to be a patriot in those days.
I must tell you I really enjoy these exchanges with you. Each time you post, you reveal a little piece of yourself. I assume that's all you can show us, as there do not seem to be any big pieces at all.....other than your opinion of yourself.
Should you muster up any questions about John McCain or the Peterson family, please feel free to ask someone who took the time to learn about them........that would be me.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
I see you won't be able to focus on a cognizant reply, so I will have to guess at where you were going with your thoughtful question.
I will assume you did not mean Sky Harbor, as no one I know would be stupid enough to stand out there waiting for someone who was flying to another part of the country. That being the case, I guess you are talking about Vietnam. Many of my friends were there. At the time they went, Uncle Sam was asking for volunteers, and my friends were all patriots. It was still popular to be a patriot in those days.
I must tell you I really enjoy these exchanges with you. Each time you post, you reveal a little piece of yourself. I assume that's all you can show us, as there do not seem to be any big pieces at all.....other than your opinion of yourself.
Should you muster up any questions about John McCain or the Peterson family, please feel free to ask someone who took the time to learn about them........that would be me.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo