Sheriff Arpaio

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Cubfan64
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Sheriff Arpaio

Post by Cubfan64 »

With Sheriff Arpaio in the news again due to a Justice Department inquiry, I wanted to ask you folks who live out there about the whole situation.

I'd ask for you all to try really really hard to avoid all the "fun" personal attacks that are oh so prevalent in this forum, but I'd likely be wasting my breath - I'll just sort through the junk to get to the heart of it if I can.

Basically I know enough about Sheriff Arpaio to form an opinion, but I also know my opinion is solely based on what I read in the media. To be honest, I haven't taken the time to totally educate myself, but in my own defense, that's becoming harder and harder to do when you can't find a biased media source. One side paints him as a hero who upholds the law as it's written, while the other side paints him as a racist "good ole boy" who's ego is too big for his own good. What I'm absolutely certain of is that it's somewhere in between all that.

With that said, most of you guys live there - you talk to people in coffee shops, deal with illegal aliens every day, vote for the man, etc...

I don't want links to stories I can read about the situation as well as the past history of his years as Sheriff of Maricopa County - I can find those on my own, I'd like to hear what those of you who live there think about it. Is he a rogue sheriff? Is he doing anything illegal? Has his enforcement had any impact on the problem of illegal immigration? Does he have alot of support from the general public? How "political" has it all become?

Any insights from the "front line" so to speak would be really welcome. With all due respect, I imagine a topic like this will deteriorate pretty rapidly, but I hope some of you at least can give me a better feel for the whole situation.

Thanks,

Paul
Cubfan64
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Post by Cubfan64 »

That's supposed to read UNbiased media source by the way - sorry
TC ASKEY
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Post by TC ASKEY »

Paul,

Arpiao has been the Sheriff of Maricopa County for 16 years. There is close to 4,000,000 people living in the county.
The petition that was sent to Washington contained 35,000 signatures.
What does that tell you?

Joe Arpaio is well thought of by most people in this state.That is, unless
you are here illegally or spent time in his jail.
More power to him.
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

oh boy...what a crock.

sheriff joe is held in high regard by people who moved to arizona.from other places whom don't like mexicans...
the nerve of mexicans to live in arizona...

lets look at the incident where sheriff joe goes to a high dollar bar in north scottsdale...notice his nose...loves his alcohol...known fact...isn't even allowed to drive his own patrol car...needs a chauffeur due to his constant intake of booze...

so joey goes to the bar...gets 9 sheets to the wind...starts a fight in the parking lot...that was what all the witness statements claimed...guess who goes to jail? the poor slob sheriff joe attacked.

he has invaded reservation property... pulls over anyone brown, and then arrests them.


raids the city of mesa town a hall looking for "illegal mexicans"...

this fool is out of control, held in low regard by 99% of law enforcement, who put up a blue wall of silence to protect the "walk on water" attitude they so cherish.

sheriff joe needs to get his punk ass out of arizona and back to where ever it is racists come from.
Joe Ribaudo
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Sheriff Joe......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Paul,

Sheriff Arpiao is hated by many people. He is also loved by many people.
If he were to run for President, I believe he would win Arizona.....hands down.

Those who argue against what the Sheriff is doing, never mention "Illegal immigrants". It's always "Mexicans". Joe, like most of us, has nothing against people who come to this country legally. I don't know why that concept is so hard for some people to understand. I suspect it has something to do with not having any respect for this country, or it's laws, to begin with.

If you break the laws of this country, or Maricopa County, you can expect Sheriff Arpiao to come after you and throw your ass into jail. After all, that's his job. His jail is full of lawbreakers, not Mexicans.

Take care,

Joe
Knun
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Bar issue

Post by Knun »

Pippin,

Sorry to burst your bubble but I personally know the person involved with the altercation with the Sheriff. It was in the parking lot of a Red Robin which is now closed. Not some high dollar bar unless Red Robin is that to you.

The person I know was intoxicated and verbally started the altercation. Joe blew him off initially while heading to his car. The person said one more thing to Joe.

Joe sent his folks over immediately while Joe walked to his car and was driven off. The person climbed into his car to make a hasty retreat and was arrested for DUI. It was his second in two months and his third overall.

The person started the altercation because Joe was also intoxicated. He found this to be hipocritical. Joe was driven off. The person went to Jail for three months.

Joe had someone drive him while intoxicated. The person I know tried to flee on his own while intoxicated. The person I know messed with the Maricopa Sheriff while intoxicated. Another asshat.
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

not suprising that the two biggest dickheads in arizona support that racist pig.

racists suck...people who support racists are cowards and suck.
Knun
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Nice

Post by Knun »

Nice contribution to the topic Pip.

Really well thought out and a real stimulating post. Really makes me think.

Well actually it wasn't and it didn't. In fact, it added nothing. Oh well, I guess you tried in your own socialist way.

Maybe you could ask some of your friends for help if you want to contribute a bit.

We're always looking for input so keep trying to contribute! Before you know it you'll become a part of the conversation!
Joe Ribaudo
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Too Long.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

pip,

"i stood on the tarmak at sky harbor, and was among the 30 some
odd people, to welcome mc cain home from nam. it was hot, he looked like he had been imprisioned and tortured...and this was after his stay in the hospitial."

Just how long did you stand "on the tarmak"?

What really causes you so much anger, is that no one, on any forum, pays you more than fleeting attention. I am, of course, leaving out two drug addicts and an occasional over the hill socialist. You can't stay focused long enough to maintain a decent conversation and try to make up for that shortcoming by hurtling invectives from a safe Internet distance. In truth, your little tirades are as unimaginative as the posts where you attempt to be serious.

Poke......poke......poke :lol:

Joe Ribaudo
Cubfan64
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Post by Cubfan64 »

Thanks for the responses so far. I'm really very torn on how I feel about all this.

On the one hand I believe those people who are here illegally are indeed breaking our laws and should be sent back to wherever they came from. I applaud someone in authority and in a position to enforce those laws who stands up and does it.

On the other hand, I can't help but wonder whether "the end justifies the means" in this case. While the media and Arpaio's critics are likely overexaggerating the situation, it concerns me when I read stories of excessive force and coercion, and I wonder how accurate they are.

I don't know that I buy into the "racial profiling" criticism used so often in situations like this. The fact of the matter is, Maricopa County is in Arizona which is quite close to Mexico - it's a well known fact that there are many illegal aliens from Mexico here in the U.S. and more all the time. With Arizona so close to the border, it's not rocket science to imagine there may be a fairly high population of illegal aliens of Hispanic decent in Maricopa County. Where would one go to try to uphold the immigration law? Obviously one would go into those communities and places where the majority of people are of Hispanic descent right?

It's not an easy issue for me to grasp yet to be honest. I think the critics try to portray Sheriff Arpaio as a vigilante who indiscriminantly harrasses hispanics in the same way that white law enforcement harassed African Americans in the Deep South before the Civil Rights Movement. I'm trying to come to terms with how what Sheriff Arpaio is doing is different.

The obvious difference to me is that in this case, there are people ABSOLUTELY breaking the law by coming to and living in the US illegally. It's still a fine line for me though and I need to think more about it before I can really decide how I feel.

There are a couple of reports I want to read as well which I haven't seen yet. The website which pointed them out claimed that violent crimes have gone up fairly significantly during the years that Arpaio has been Sheriff - I use statistics all the time, and I know how easy it is to manipulate numbers to show whatever you want to show, so I want to read it over and see if that's the case. For example, perhaps the population has also increased significantly, or perhaps the # of arrests have also gone up significantly, etc... One of the other reports mentioned that there are 40,000 outstanding arrest warrants in Maricopa County, and if that's the case, I'd like to try to understand what kind of effort the Sheriff has made to arrest those individuals, etc...

Lots of things to read and absorb - it's an interesting issue and one that at least in my opinion has alot to do with where the United States of America will end up over the next dacade or two.

Keep up the posts if you would - I welcome more comments.
Joe Ribaudo
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Your Worst Fears.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Paul,

Nice post. Well thought out and balanced.

"While the media and Arpaio's critics are likely overexaggerating the situation...."

You need only read pip's last two posts to find a prime example of what you are talking about here. It's the same kind of mind?-set that was, and is, prevalent with the President Bush haters. Come to think of it, it mirrors the mentality of the hate America crowd. The mindless name calling that is shown here, is the signature of those who oppose enforcing the law.

We have done this to ourselves, much like the results we will get for electing President Obama, it's all on us.

Take care,

Joe
TC ASKEY
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Post by TC ASKEY »

Paul,

If you watch the news much you probably already know that Phoenix is
2nd only to Mexico City in kidnapping. Most of it linked to the drug trade and human smuggling.

85% of all viliant crime in Phoenix is caused by people here illegally.
Joe Ribaudo
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Numbers.....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

CLD
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yeah

Post by CLD »

Pippin...let's go burn one. metaphorically. :D
Shhh...........Ok now bite me!
Knun
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illegals

Post by Knun »

Paul,
There are many evil facits to illegal immigration that point most folks towards enforcement.

The one that bothers me the most is the fact that those that come here illegally, and are those people that any American would welcome with open arms, are exsploted. They are quite simply indentured servants which is a form of slavery. When you look at the meat packing industry and how they use these people you would be appalled. Or the Agricultural industry. Or Maria on the corner selling Burritos off a cart to make a living. You don't think she is prayed upon by the Mexican Mafia and others. Construction, Landscaping...the list is endless and they all live a life of slavery.

That is not MY America. If you come here legally I'm all for it. And be sure to think through the asshat arguement about racism. It's totally bullshit, pure and simple. I don't care if your Scandinavian...blonde haired and blue eyes. I could care less, if you are here illegally you broke our law and have no right to be here. The thing is we are on a border with a corrupt third world country so the vast majority are form that country. Everyone I know that is pro legal immigration feels that way.

You can't believe the amount of crime that is perped by illegals here in Phoenix. Almost daily we hear of illegals being held hostage for more money by Cayotes. They give up everything they own to come here and then are kidnapped and held until their family gives up everything they own. If that isn't a form of slavery I don't know what is. Our cars are stolen more often than anywhere else....by illegal aliens.

The drug cartels cross the border with not a care in the world. They have money and can do as they please. All forms of perverts, criminals gang members etc, cross our Arizona border daily.

There is no health checkpoint for illegals. TB is quite prevelant here. When you are in a public place you have no idea what you are being exsposed to. A doctors office is actually scary. You see, illegals soon find out how to get on ACCESS which is Arizona's state health care. It is quite good for those in need. In fact, my health care which is provided for me by my company, has the exact same choices for coverage as someone on ACCESS. I don't mind who is in the waiting room but I do mind what is in the waiting room.

And the list goes on and on.

With all that, American politics is the driving force behind this discussion. An easy vote is a good vote I guess. Avote you can count on.
Cubfan64
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Thanks again for the comments...

Post by Cubfan64 »

I was hoping to get a few more viewpoints from those against Sheriff Arpaio, and I still hope to hear from that side of the argument.

I have yet to find time to read some of the reports I want to cover, so I can't really add much to the discussion at this point.

I will say one thing however regarding illegal aliens and the move for mass citizenship (amnesty?) both George Bush and Barrak Obama support.

I don't like the idea at all - even when you factor in what it might do to our economy if we deport all of them instead (even if that were possible). My biggest problem with allowing mass citizenship for all of the illegal aliens is that there is no plan in place to stop more from coming across the border illegally afterwards.

If we can't do something to fix that problem or even just have a significant impact upon it, we'll be in the same boat 10 years from now as we are today. Put a plan in place that convinces me:

"ok, this is how we are going to stop people from illegally entering our country from the N and S borders from this day forward," and I might give serious consideration to allowing those who are here illegally today the rights of citizenship (although I would probably still have some issues with it). If you can't convince me that our borders are safe, I can't condone it.
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

howdy cubfan.

i believe we should move the border to panama...make mexico the next 37 states...the economics of this move would overshadow any xenophobia movement.
the border with mexico was made without care for families, environmental concerns, labor markets or ethnic affiliations...

the fortify the border mentality also fails to account for a family home being on both sides of the border...
Joe Ribaudo
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Panama?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

pip,

You realize that Mexico has their army posted on their southern border. They arrest and jail anyone trying to cross that border illegally.

Once you have moved that border, would you favor securing it against illegal entry, or would you need to open it up as well? Opening the border with Mexico would also leave the drug cartels unfettered in their cross border activities, and especially their internal wars. As an Arizona citizen, you and your family would, pretty much, be on the front line of that warfare.

Would you approve of using the U.S. Army to engage that particular threat, or would you suggest we increase our local law enforcement to handle a larger and better armed criminal force? How do you propose that we annex Mexico? Those who have the power in that government, are unlikely to approve of such a deal.

Historically, they have always been the ones to "cash in" on anything which the country might produce.

At what point in this hemisphere would you draw a line and secure your border....Columbia perhaps?

We can't support the government/people we have in this country now. What would happen if we start making multiple third world countries part of our population?

Just swinging our doors open seems like a very simplistic approach to our problems.

Joe Ribaudo
CLD
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border condiderations

Post by CLD »

Hi Pippin,
Just my two cents here but are there any borders that are/were made with those considerations in mind? Of course I don't know anything about the borders on other planets...so I can't speak to those. :D
Shhh...........Ok now bite me!
Joe Ribaudo
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Leaving Mexico......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Paul,

The LDM Forum is pretty much dead. The only real action is on the First Amendment Forum. Trying to get a serious conversation going is a lost cause.

One of the really bad consequences of making the millions of illegals already in the country legal, is the fact that they would then be able to bring in all of their family members still in Mexico, or wherever, swelling the total number of immigrants to four or more times the number that are already here. That would change the picture of the voting districts drastically, as well as ending the two-party system. In fact, the immigrants would probably end up taking over the politics of the country. Considering how well they have done in their own countries, I doubt it would be an improvement.

The question becomes: What city in Mexico, would you like to see the United States become like. What are the social programs in Mexico that you would like to see become the rule in this country? Perhaps their welfare program? We need to send them all home, or become what that country is. One wonders what borders they would cross then.

Take care,

Joe
pippinwhitepaws
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Re: border condiderations

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

CLD wrote:Hi Pippin,
Just my two cents here but are there any borders that are/were made with those considerations in mind? Of course I don't know anything about the borders on other planets...so I can't speak to those. :D
yes, there are borders that are defined by geographical features, rivers, mountains, oceans, lakes...

until the advent of industrialized imperialism, most borders were defined by geographic features.
Joe Ribaudo
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Post by Joe Ribaudo »

pip,

While that is a (somewhat) true statement, most countries borders are a serious cultural, political and ethnic line.

I assume you ascribe to this statement:

"The ideas that every nation should have its own state and that every state should be a single nation may not have much solid merit either as normative or as practical proposals. But between them they have made a great deal of the political history of the twentieth century." Dunn, ‘Introduction: Crisis of the Nation-State’

No borders sounds like the ideal, but practically speaking, there seems to be some value in there being a line......of some kind, which should not be crossed without permission from those who wish autonomy. Consider your home a country unto itself. You and those who share your home are the government. The door and exterior perimeter are your borders.

If you believe that nations have no rights to control their borders, why should your own personal borders not have open doors.....to anyone who wishes to enter? It's because you want to control your own environment that you establish the borders of your home. Countries do it for the same reason.

Man has always put up doors/barriars to insure the safety of themselves, their families and their belongings. The reasons are simple. There is always someone who has less, who would like to take what you have. They have always been willing to use force in that endeavor. Historically those things which have been coveted include: Wives, children, animals, food, shelter, land, treasure, slaves.....etc. Those who wish to protect these things put up some kind of border. Those who don't, die or become slaves.

The borders that we have established for this country have protected us from those who wish to change or destroy what has become the most successful nation on the planet. Some wish to destroy/kill us because we don't believe in their religion. Others hate us for our high standard of living. Other's are simply jealous of our power.

At the very bottom of the list are some of our own citizens, who believe they are victims of societies laws and rules. They would tear down our borders in an attempt to level the playing field between those who have and those who have not. They may soon see the results of that kind of action.

Joe Ribaudo
Joe Ribaudo
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Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Oops,

Make that barriers. :oops:

Joe Ribaudo
TC ASKEY
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Post by TC ASKEY »

Paul,

Channel 10 news in Phoenix is running a Poll on Sheriff Joe today.
You can judge the results for yourself @myfoxphoenix.
Joe Ribaudo
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Sheriff Joe.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

7:57 A.M.

Results Daily Poll Question What is your opinion of Sheriff Joe Arpaio?

Very Favorable
66%
Somewhat Favorable
11%
Somewhat Unfavorable
6%
Very Unfavorable
15%

Total Votes: 167

77% Favorable
21% Unfavorable

Wonder what happened to the other 2%

Joe Ribaudo
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