duh!

Anything goes. Politics, religion and your neighbors spouse. No censors, no dictators. Any and all opinions welcome.
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duh!

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

ALEXANDRIA, Pa. - The clergyman credited with helping to push Congress to insert the phrase "under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance died in Alexandria, Pa., a church official said.

The Rev. George M. Docherty was 97.

Nancy Taylor, historian for the Huntingdon Presbyterian Church, said Docherty died on Thanksgiving at his home in Alexandria, with his wife, Sue, by his side.

Docherty delivered a sermon saying the pledge should acknowledge God in 1952 at Washington's New York Avenue Presbyterian Church, just blocks from the White House.

On Feb. 7, 1954, he delivered it again after learning that President Dwight Eisenhower would be at the church.

Congress inserted the words a few months later.


interesting that the united states survived 175 years without bible thumping, now it is understood the u.s. was always a "christian nation"

isn't disinformation wonderful?
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27989275/

the end of posse comitaus, 130 year old federal law preventing federal troops operating within the united states.

yep...blame obama and the democrats, but notice it is bush incorporated that has pushed this through.

fuck you nazi
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Here we go again with the revisionist BS>

Post by Knun »

So what of the Christian symbols on the Supreme Court Building, the Capitol Building, the Library of Congress, the National Archives and various public monuments around the city.

Guess "bible thumping" was something special throughout our history.

Come on asshat...you know damn well this is a Judo-Christian Country. It was the basis for this great Country we have today that allows you to be an idiot.

You want to worship a dead frog it's all good here. You want to be a self-rightous athesist, that's OK too.


Why do Christian's scare you???
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Received This Today......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:

We have stuck together since the late 1950's, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has run its course. Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

Here is a model separation agreement:

Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.

We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.

Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnell (You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them).

We'll keep the capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street.. You can have your beloved homeless, homeboys, hippies and illegal aliens. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .

You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.

We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N.. But we will no longer be paying the bill.

We'll keep the SUVs, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Subaru station wagon you can find.

You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors. We'll continue to believe healthcare is a luxury and not a right. We'll keep The Battle Hymn of the Republic and the National Anthem. I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute Imagine, I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing, Kum Ba Ya or We Are the World.

We'll practice trickle down economics and you can give trickle up poverty your best shot. Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our flag.

Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you ANWAR which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.

Sincerely,

John J. Wall
Law Student and an American

P.S. Also, please take Barbara Streisand & Jane Fonda with you.
______________________________________________________

I believe I would add many more names to that short list.

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

i wonder why ignorant people are so vested in thier ignorance...

In 1797, six years after the adoption of the Bill of Rights, the United States government signed a treaty with the Muslim nation of Tripoli that contained the following statement (numbered Article 11 in the treaty):


As the Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the states never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever produce an interruption of harmony existing between the two countries.
So far as we can tell, the inclusion of these words in the treaty had no negative political ramifications for the treaty whatsoever. On the contrary, the treaty was approved by President John Adams and his Secretary of State Timothy Pickering, and was then ratified by the Senate without objection. According to an information sheet provided to us by Ed Buckner of the Atlanta Freethought Society:


The Journal of the Executive Proceedings of the United States Senate clearly specifies that the treaty was read aloud on the floor of the Senate and that copies of the treaty were printed "for the use of the Senate." Nor is it plausible to argue that perhaps Senators voted for the treaty without being aware of the famous words. The treaty was quite short, requiring only two or three pages to reprint in most treaty books today--and printed, in its entirely, on but one page (sometimes the front page) of U.S. newspapers of the day. The lack of any recorded argument about the wording, as well as the unanimous vote and the and the wide reprinting of the words in the press of 1797, suggests that the idea that the government was not a Christian one was widely and easily accepted at the time.
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whatever

Post by CLD »

I think it would be cool to see Joe and Pippin in a cage fight match. :lol:
Shhh...........Ok now bite me!
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Ignorant People.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

"i wonder why ignorant people are so vested in thier ignorance..."

It is because they constantly "wonder". Perhaps you could Google the answer.

Should you actually research the era/history of the treaties that were made and broken with the Barbary Pirates, instead of cherry picking the Internet passages that bolster your hatred of our country, you might cease to "wonder". As I don't believe you will ever make that much effort to inform yourself on a subject you continue to refer to, I would still be happy to recommend a few books for your enlightenment.

On the other hand, you will probably prefer to continue to......."wonder".

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

poor little joey...wonder is what connects one to the spirit.

too bad...
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Spirit World.....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

pip,

Thank you for the clarification. I admit, I failed to make the connection between what you said, and your "spirit".

I thought you wanted to talk about our evil ancestors not keeping their word to pirates, and all the while you only wanted to talk about your spiritual connections. Here's a connection you might want to consider instead:

Without our war(s) with the Barbary Pirates, and the eventual victory over them, our young nation would not have survived. All the evil things that you believe our people have been guilty of, would never have happened, and you would now be living in a utopian world .

Unfortunately, Adolph Hitler would have succeeded in killing everyone who wasn't of the pure race, and you probably would not have been born. While I see some benefit in that last part, I doubt it would tip the scales into a positive position. :wink:

Instead of your usual copy and paste opinion on this "treaty of peace", perhaps you could give me your thoughts on why the treaty did not work. What prompted the United States to go to war? What did we accomplish? What do you believe our alternatives were?

I would love to see you express an informed, original opinion. If you could answer the above questions, in your own words, it would be a wonderful connection with your seemingly suppressed spirit. There is a great deal more to the story than the short passages you have found on the Internet. Had you read this history while a pre-teen, as I did, I believe it would have changed your life.

If you would like to break away from our usual conversations of insults, I would be happy to discuss this subject with you. You present a fact, and I will present the other side of it. Hopefully, we will both learn something new....and of value.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
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Rubbish

Post by lazarus »

I see the rubbish is still piling up around here. What a load of nonsense.
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Doing The Right Thing.....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

"Lord our Heavenly Father, High and Mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech thee, on these our American States, who have fled to thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent on Thee, to Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give; take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle! Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst Thy people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask In the Name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.
Amen."

The First Prayer offered in Congress

September 7th, 1774 by Jacob Duche in Carpenters Hall, Philadelphia


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness......... And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
______________________________________________________

It would appear that God was never that far away from the founding fathers.

There are always people who are willing to prostrate themselves before evil men and beg for table scraps.
By the time this treaty was written, it was much harder to find men who were willing to pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor.

Promises made under such extreme duress are ethically non-binding. Removing God from the equation allows people like pip and Brad to speak and act without conscience. In that directions lies anarchy. Sadly, that seems to be where this country is going.

We did what we had to do......to survive.

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Wrong!

Post by critter »

Wrong again, dipshit!

The 1st United States Congress was convened on the 4th of March 1789 and only after agreeing (See Massachusetts Compromise) to include Amendments known as the Bill of Rights whose First Amendment protects freedom of religion. In fact, it could even be argued that it was a backlash to precisely the kind of religious fundamentalism displayed by evangelicals that led to adoption of the Bill of Rights with religious freedom given precedence as the first clause of the First Amendment.

Nothing but Beerfarts and Bravado, Beerfarts and Bravado.

Fuck off, Joe!
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Post by Joe Ribaudo »

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Wrong!

Post by critter »

Dipshit Joe,

The Continental Congress was the governing body of the British North American Colonies during the American Revolution. It was not and has never been the governing body of the United States of America, which was created upon resolution of the Revolutionary War AND subsequent adoption of the United States Constitution as amended by the Bill of Rights and ratified as such by each colony. Try doing some of the internet research, that you vilify so often yet rely on upon so fervently, on "United States Congress" and see what you come up with.

Nothing but Beerfarts and Bravado, Beerfarts and Bravado

Fuck off, Joe!
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Wrong!

Post by critter »

Thank you, Joe, for demonstrating the kind of denial and historical revision that has lost the Republicans both houses of the United States Congress and the presidency. Apparently he thinks the United States of America is still a colony of Britain, now THAT is conservative!

Incidentally, there is a huge opening here for someone to throw some of the animosity that Joe has shown toward Internet Research right back at him. He's obviously relying upon a misinterpretation of a google search as his main source. What a dipshit!

Fuck off, Joe!
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Wrong!

Post by critter »

According to the Congressional Record at the Library of Congress, not a single session of the First United States Congress was opened with a prayer of any kind. I could be wrong, but that source seems a little bit more credible than a Google Search. As for the Judeo-Christian symbols appearing on many of the federal buildings and our coinage, these were done well after the founding of the nation and can only be attributed to the beliefs of the Founding Fathers in the imagination of a "bible thumper".

I do thank Joe and his minions for demonstrating to everyone the historical ignorance and self-inoculation of belief systems that has contributed to the Republicans losing the majorities in both houses of the United States Congress and the Presidency of the secular United States of America.
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History Lessons......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

critter,

I, like everyone these days, use the Internet for research. I prefer using books, especially for historical background. At work, I have no library to fall back on.

[John Adams described the services in Carpenter's Hall on September 7, 1774: Duche "read several Prayers, in the established Form; and then read the Collect for the seventh day of September, which was the Thirty fifth Psalm . . . after this Mr. Duche, unexpected to every Body struck out into an extemporary Prayer, which filled the Bosom of every Man present. I must confess that I never heard a better Prayer or one so well pronounced . . . with such fervor, such Ardor, such Earnestness and Pathos, and in Language so elegant and sublime-for America, for the Congress, for The Province of Massachusetts Bay, and especially the Town of Boston. It has had an excellent Effect upon every Body here."]

There is a very famous painting of that event.

"Religion and the Founding of the American Republic" by, James H. Hutson.

___________________________________________

[The same First Congress that adopted the First Amendment opened with prayer and later appointed its own chaplain. Indeed most of the early presidents, including a reluctant Madison, declared occasional days of thanksgiving. In the Northwest Ordinance, provision was arguably made for the support of religiously based education in the western territories.]

[Not only did the Continental Congress frequently engage in prayer and hear sermons as an assembled body, but it also legislated on a wide range of religious themes, such as sin, repentance, humiliation, divine service, morality, fasting, prayer, mourning, public worship, funerals, chaplains, and "true" religion. Sabbath recognition, moreover, was important enough that Congress declined to meet on Sundays except for rare special sessions.]

[Only one day after convening on 5 September 1774, Congress appointed a chaplain to lead prayer at its sessions.]

[The First Continental Congress assembled 5 September 1774. The next day Thomas Cushing of Massachusetts moved that the daily sessions be opened with prayer. Abraham Clark, a delegate from New Jersey, claims to have been responsible for this motion, although the official record credits Cushing.]

"Religion and the Continental Congress, 1774-1789: Contributions to Original Intent" by, Derek H. Davis.

_________________________________________

I would especially refer you to:

"Religion and the Founding of the American Republic" by, James H. Hutson.

If you read the entire book, it will give you a better feel for our founding father's intentions and beliefs.

I could go on for many, many pages with quotes from historical records, but realize it would be a waste of time, so this will have to suffice.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
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Almost Forgot......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

James Hutson, Library of Congress
James H. Hutson received his Ph.D. in History from Yale University in 1964. He has been a member of the History Departments at Yale and William and Mary and, since 1982, has been Chief of the Library's Manuscript Division. Dr Hutson is the author of several books among them: John Adams and the Diplomacy of the American Revolution (1980); winner of the Gilbert Chinard Prize, 1981; To Make All Laws: The Congress of the United States, 1789-1989 (Washington and Boston, 1989-90; 4th edition, Washington, 1990); The Sister Republics: Switzerland and the United States from 1776 to the Present ( Washington, 1991; 4th edition, Washington, 1998); Religion and the Founding of the American Republic (5th printing, Washington, 2000).
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Unrevised Historical FACTS

Post by critter »

Wow! You really are stupid.

To understand the role of religion in the founding of the United States of America, one need look no further than the founding document itself, The United States Constitution and the original amendments, the Bill of Rights. What is worth noting is the overt omission of religious or Christian language. This is important because many of the writers were theists and many were devout Christians, although few had the same sort of religious beliefs common with evangelicals in America today. This fact actually only serves to bolster the case for a secularist state as the absence of overt religious language is all the more glaring. Had they been atheists, the lack of religious language would be unexpected and even unremarkable. Yet because they were religious and steeped in Christian education, the absence of Christian language must be viewed as deliberate and purposeful.

What might this purpose have been? Well, it seems obvious to those without a dogmatic agenda, it is to establish a secular government that is untainted by the many problems that arise from sectarian divisions, like the religious violence and Christian bigotry that afflicted the European nations at the time and afflicts the Christian Right today. This point of view is only further strengthened by the emphasis placed on a secularist state in the first clause of the First Amendment to the secular Constitution.

I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand that you are wrong, Joe, and I do hope that your own Christian views have taught you tolerance and respect for others, but if they have, it has yet to be demonstrated. The fact remains, that your History Lessons are in fact, not factual, the Continental Congress was never the governing body of the United States of America, in fact, the United States of America didn't even exist when that prayer was made. This is historical FACT. What is also historical fact is the fact that not a single session of the First United States Congress was opened with a prayer, of any kind, Christian or otherwise. You are wrong, and you are afraid to admit it. You are a bigot, a liar, an alcoholic, and a fat, stupid, little fuck of a man. These are FACTS and I am done.
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Abuse.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

pip,

"I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand that you are wrong, Joe, and I do hope that your own Christian views have taught you tolerance and respect for others, but if they have, it has yet to be demonstrated."

I have great respect and tolerance for the views of others. If that were not true, I would be cursing you and you opinions, insult for insult.

If by "Christian views" you mean the true Christian lifestyle, you would be correct. That is the way I try to live my life. If you mean a belief in the Christian God, you are dead wrong.

I am just smart enough to understand what I read here. Since I, mostly, quoted other peoples opinions and words, I would like to see you quote anything I have written in this thread where I have lied, or even been mistaken.

What is really stupid, are your comments about me.......personally. They show low mentality and morals. I assume it's the drugs that keep your mind so clouded. I have not attacked your opinion in this conversation. That is because I do respect your right to voice those opinions. Because you don't agree with others does not make you stupid, a liar or any of the other vile things you call me, for daring to oppose you with another opinion.

Debate and the passing of information are what forums are for. If you feel the need to restrict the opinions of others, by shouting/cursing them down, I would suggest you start your own forum and pattern it in the style of some other country.......like China.

Joe Ribaudo
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LOSER!

Post by critter »

I don't know how you could possibly think that I intend to or care to reflect any kind of moral standard that YOU endorse. Your moral standards change consistently and are only called upon after you LOSE the debate. When it really matters, as in advocating for the rights and lives of those of others, you're moral standards are thrown to the curb and replaced by bigotry, intolerance, and even sin. You are a coward, you are stupid, you have lost this debate and you are afraid to admit it, you stink, you are immoral and in many ways demented. You are a miserable fuck of a man and no amount of proselytising about "morals" is going to change that. YOU LOSE!
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No Quotes To Offer????

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

critter,

Once again, I have only offered an opinion of the image and personality you project on this Forum. You have never done an ounce of introspection, so I expect nothing of you.

I must assume that your reply is the best you can do, in proving your points......whatever they are. I did not really expect you to actually quote anything I wrote that was a lie or even incorrect.

I can understand why you are a pothead. It must be very difficult for you to face the real world every day, without that shield to protect your childish world. It's amazing that you were able to venture out of the warm cocoon of Yahooka.com. You should be very proud of that accomplishment.

If you can ever prove one thing you blather about me, you will be one step closer to drawing way behind in our discussions. If you consider anything you have written, so far, to be a "win", at least one person will agree with you......maybe one or two more.

Right now, I am the only one who pays enough attention to your nonsense to reply. I don't do it for any other reason than boredom, so try to keep up your end of the conversation.

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Poor, poor demented Joey has lost his way

Post by critter »

The reason that Joe is so frightened right now is simple. It is because I have just proven that his entire point of view is false, that his whole life has been a lie. You see, if I am right (and I am) and he is wrong (and he is) then that means that I am the one who defends the ideals of the Founders, that means that I am the true patriot. If I am right (and I am) and he is wrong (and he is) then he is the one who seeks to undermine the will of the Founders, which means that he is the one who hates America and all she stands for. This realisation must come as a shock to him, which is why he retreats into personal attacks, and attempts to take the moral high ground. One who advocates torture and killing of innocents has no moral high ground; it is a low road. It means that his whole life is a lie, that it is a waste, and that he lives in a world that is pure fantasy, and that in and of itself is a personal hell that gives me pause for I pity the fool.

Fuck off, Joe!
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Personal Attacks.....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

critter,

You have a problem with personal attacks???? Who knew? :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Joe Ribaudo
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