Hi knun,
Of course im not as informed about the american system as i maybe should be.Im observing from a distance plainly....However ive read of people having to give up their homes to pay medical bills,people being cut off from cover because they reached their benefit limit,or being refused cover because of their long term medical needs....are these stories true or false? if true,then plainly there is a problem,if lies then someone should pursue those lies and show everyone that that is the case.I am not talking about the odd report ,there seems to be an awful lot of people who say (or have said) the same thing.
Its also said that the private insurers employ a whole army of accountants to find ways to escape their insurance obligations.If that is just to uncover fraudelent claims etc..all well and good,but logic might hint thart its more to do with saving money by any means possible......And of course if there isnt an issue,then why are so many people determined to fix it?
Ive "spoke" or listened to other americans on various forums,who mainly have said that the ONE and ONLY reason that they voted Democrat in this last election was purely because of Obamas promise to alter the jhealth care system.Though to be honest they also said that they doubt if he will actually do what he says.....though one can live in hope.
As for your statement that "people with means dont come to Britain for treatment" ..of course they wouldnt-theres no need ..if they have "means"....but of course for the wealthy theres no problem .
I think that the majority in britain value the national health service...there have been howls of protest,demonstrations and the like when part privatisation of the NHS plans have been put forward ........except from the wealthier part of the population,which is understandable, I guess.
Here is part of a page regarding the american health system......true? false? somewhere between the two?
Public health versus private health: understanding the differences can be literally life and death for a society or civilization. The US has been slowly bankrupting itself providing exotic healthcare for all sorts of personal things including annoying sexual performance problems in the gnome community (viagra!). The US under serves public healthcare while overspending on private healthcare and this is putting us at a severe disadvantage in trade as well as driving our government off the cliff (of course, our many wars are also at fault here).
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As per usual, the US public writhes with fear, agony and partisan anger as we try, for the umpteenth time, to develop a national health program that is as useful and frugal as 80% of the top manufacturing nations on earth. The health statistics for the US public are miserable. We rank below nearly all of Europe and many Asian countries in longevity, child health and maternal deaths. Yet we have the most expensive medical complex system on earth.
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It is a mirror of our military/industrial complex. Expensive, totally out of touch with pressing matters, focused mostly on cosmetic appearances and impossible to change. And is bankrupting us. The twin forces of our extravagant military and our deluxe but nonfunctional health systems are tearing our nation apart and both will ultimately destroy our entire civilization if not reined in, somehow.
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One very bad problem we have, concerning healthcare, is differentiating between what is for the public good and what is private. We are a collective. Anyone who thinks he is an island, should move to one and not leave it. The rest of us live in the middle of an ocean of humanity, all of us are interconnected in a wide variety of ways.
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One way we are connected is, we share the same breathing spaces. That is, people breathe in and out all over the place (unless they are holding their breath!) and viruses love this aspiration methodology to aspire to multiply via coughing or sneezing. When did the first virus evolve to spread via breathing? We don’t know but I bet, it was around the same time the first amphibians began to walk on dry land.
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When the first Labyrinthodontia came toddling ashore, it probably cast a glance over to another Labyrinthodontia and said, ‘My nose itches. *Achoo*’. The other one said, ‘Gesundheit,’ and then went back into the water only it felt awfully sick the next day. Long before the ruling elites tried to get rich, running the G7 nations, the real pests were the Virus Empire and the Bacterial Kingdom. These two conglomeration of single celled party poopers have a long and stellar history of out-evolving all other life forms. More about that later.
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One of the main functions of any civilization that wishes to exist for very long is to deal with the Virus Empire and the Bacterial Kingdom and to keep them either at bay or under control. Anytime a government loses control of these two dire bio armies, chaos and death ensue. Out of curiosity, since I dislike simply assuming anything, here is a useful timeline about US public healthcare:
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Health Care Law: U.S. Health Care Timelines
1796: Congress refused to give the federal government authority to quarantine people with contagious diseases
1879: First federal quarantine program established (allowed to expire in 1884)
1887: Public Health Service opened one-room lab in Staten Island marine hospital to do research on bacteria, vaccines, and quarantine techniques — forerunner of National Institutes of Health 50 years later
1902: Biologics Control Act enacted to regulate quality of vaccines and sera
1906: Food and Drug Act enacted to prevent manufacture, sale, or transportation of (harmful) food, drugs, medicine, or liquor
1912: Children’s Bureau established
1917: Public Health Service facilities authorized to provide medical care to WWI veterans with service-connected disabilities; extended in 1933 to include medical and domiciliary care to all veterans of any war since 1897, regardless of whether disabilities were service-connected
1918: Chamberlain-Kahn Act authorized first federal grants to states for public health services (for control of venereal disease)
1933: Federal Emergency Relief Administration provided limited medical, dental, and nursing services for the medically indigent
1935: Social Security Act enacted to provide retirement and death benefits, a federal/state unemployment compensation system, federal grants to states in developing public health programs, and cash benefits to dependent children, the blind, and, in 1952, the disabled. Employer and employee contributions implemented in 1937 with each contributing 1% of first $3,000 of wages. No general health benefits were included.
1945: Harry Truman was first president to present an official administration proposal for national health insurance to Congress
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First off, Congress wanted everything to be state’s rights issues. So, if a state didn’t give a hoot or holler if vast plagues swept their own population (i.e.: the slave states) then, people would die left and right. It is amazing to see how people can’t think very well: slaves were ’subhuman’ (see: Hitler’s Master race ideology) so it didn’t matter all that much if the slaves got sick. The idea that illnesses sweeping through the wretched quarters of the field hand slaves could migrate to the Big House and kill the master’s children, baffled slave owners. After all, they thought, slaves were NOT humans at all so how could they give the ‘real’ humans (Massa and his cuddly kids) any diseases?
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We take for granted the idea that we know that germs cause diseases. Unfortunately, this is false. It wasn’t even an American that found out about germs, it was a Frenchman. And this revelation occurred at about the same time my godmother, who died at 105 years in 1964, was born!
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Louis Pasteur Quick Facts – Quick Facts – MSN Encarta
December 27, 1822
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Death September 28, 1895
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Place of Birth Dole, France
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Known for Founding microbiology
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Proposing the germ theory of disease, in which diseases arise from naturally existing microorganisms, not from spontaneous generation, the supposed formation of disease-causing organisms from nonliving matter
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Inventing the process of pasteurization
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Developing a vaccine for rabies
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Pasteur proved that diseases were NOT caused by living in sin or reading racy French novels or going to ballets or engaging in politics. He proved that many things people did to foil death were either futile or downright dangerous. For example, he campaigned hard to get doctors to WASH THEIR HANDS between patients. The medical profession thought that was very stupid. The death rate of mothers, due to doctors refusing to wash their hands, was very ferocious.
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The US public health system has to pay close attention to collective health problems: things that spread via breathing, touching, sexual intercourse, sweat, urine, feces and farming methods. These MUST be attended to and regulated. People have to cooperate with various energetic programs to prevent epidemics, pandemics and the evolution of germs. That is, if people don’t do the right things with existing therapies and medicines, diseases evolve rapidly to overturn these cures. Thus, the need for public input on dealing with say, TUBERCULOSIS.
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That dread disease is now spreading and it is resistant to modern medicines. Draconian measures must be taken but aren’t being taken, to stop this menace. Another public health menace is malaria. This, too, has evolved to the point, it no longer is stopped by modern medicines. Usually, these diseases occur when private poverty prevents patients from following the entire course of a cure. So they stop halfway and the disease surges back, often, mutating while doing this.
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To keep up with these diseases, we need public funding of research labs. The major drug companies don’t like this sort of research, it is not all that profitable. They far rather research sexual enhancement drugs, or stuff that can be used for cosmetic surgery. Vanity drives a huge sector of healthcare research and profits. So universities are often the place where our new research comes from:
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U.S. researchers find ’signature’ of common virus | Deals | Regulatory News | Reuters
Common viruses that cause colds and flu leave a distinctive signature in the blood, and U.S. researchers said on Thursday they had found a way to pin it down.
. The researchers hope to develop a test that will tell a doctor quickly whether a patient has a common cold, influenza or some other infection, and help guide treatment options.
. “This work is still in a relatively early phase of discovery, but we are optimistic that these findings may lead to a whole new way of diagnosing infectious disease,” Dr. Geoffrey Ginsburg of Duke University in North Carolina, who led the study, said in a statement.
. Most respiratory infections look similar — cough, sneezing, fever, headache and fatigue. There are no good quick tests and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a study, also on Thursday, showing on-the-spot flu tests miss up to half of all flu infections. [ID:nN06348322]….
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…The biggest value, they said, may be in helping doctors tell who has viral pneumonia and who has bacterial pneumonia. It is useless to treat viral infections with antibiotics.
. “It could mean more appropriate use of antibiotics. Overuse of antibiotics can lead to the emergence of drug-resistant pathogens, and no one wants to see more of that,” Dr. Christopher Woods of Duke said in a statement
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Way back in my youth, I was 100% against feeding antibiotics to farm animals. Yes, they gain weight faster and live longer when we do this but the germs mutate over time and destroy the value of antibiotics to the MAJOR PUBLIC. Again: private farm producers are endangering the greater public because they want bigger profits from bigger animals.
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A government should stop them from doing this but of course, the big aggie guys pay Congress lots of money to not stop them so they merrily destroyed the value of antibiotics during the last 50 years.
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Massive beef recall linked to antibiotic-resistant salmonella outbreak
California firm Beef Packers Inc has recalled over 800,000 pounds of ground beef linked to an outbreak of antibiotic-resistant salmonella that has sickened people across nine states.
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The US Department of Agriculture (USDA) issued the alert yesterday for a range of the company’s ground beef products processed between June 5-23 that were sent to retail distribution centres in Arizona, California, Colorado and Utah. The 825,769 pounds (375,349 kg) of meat had been repackaged into consumer-size amounts and sold under different retail brand names. Consumers were warned to check with local retailer to find out if they were at risk.
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Thank you, Big Factory Farming Aggie Guys! This salmonella is ANTIBIOTIC-RESISTANT!!! Good gods. And this was so easy to predict. The way we abuse antibiotics and other drugs used to stop dangerous diseases is part of the public/private healthcare matrix. We cannot pretend that ‘to each his own’ is OK. Medical anarchy=death.
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BBC NEWS | Health | Are we losing the war on bugs?
We now know that the bacteria behind the current outbreak of pneumonic plague in China – Yersinia pestis – started out life as a fairly harmless inhabitant of the intestine before acquiring a gene which allowed it to infect insects, and then return to humans with devastating effects.
. The strain of E.coli meanwhile which has just left two people seriously ill is a mutant form of the bacterium which lives without causing any trouble in cattle, but can be a killer in humans when it is picked up after touching an animal or eating undercooked, infected food. .
Campylobacter jejuni, another cause of bacterial food poisoning, have developed cells with different surfaces: this means that even if most of them are recognised and killed by the host’s immune system, some of them will escape and proliferate. Which is what those which have developed resistance to antibiotics are also able to do. Campaigns have been launched aimed at reducing unnecessary use of treatments amid a rising number of resistant strains.
. While MRSA rates have fallen dramatically, others - notably antibiotic resistant E. coli strains which cause infections of the urinary tract and the blood – are on the increase.
. “Sensible prescribing is part of the answer but we also need new antibiotics - it’s not one of the most attractive areas for pharmaceutical companies as people don’t take them for very long, unlike treatments for heart disease or cancer,” says Dr David Livermore, an infections expert at the Health Protection Agency.
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Grrr….if anyone thinks eating right and living a ‘virtuous’ life will protect them from tuberculosis or the plague… that is just nutty! Of course, it is good to eat healthy, be sanitary and to exercise but none of these activities will protect one from the major deadly diseases that are resurgent. On top of this, businesses making drugs don’t like dealing with these things, they want to find drugs we have to take all our lives. Bingo: big profits, little work.
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Below is a PEW study about antibiotics being abused by farmers:
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National Commission on Industrial Farm Animal Production
Final Report: Putting Meat on The Table: Industrial Farm Animal Production in America
Executive Summary CLICK HERE PDF (2.7 MB)
Full Report CLICK HERE PDF (6.2 MB)
Frequently Asked Questions CLICK HEREPDF (164 KB)
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Every day, doctors use antibiotics to treat thousands of sick children and adults. Humans depend on these life-saving medicines for their personal health. But did you know that as much as 70 percent of all antibiotics sold in the U.S. are being fed to cattle, swine, and poultry on industrial animal farms, for purposes other than treating disease?
. Click here to learn more about how antibiotic use in food production threatens human health in the Human Health and Industrial Farming program by The Pew Charitable Trusts
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What puzzles me is how some people get on various strange bandwagons. For example, getting hysterical about fluoride. While at the same time, being la-de-dah about very serious potential plagues. This refusal to look at big things while getting anxious about small things is very human. We feel unease when we confront the greater forces. So we focus on trivialities.
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Water pollution from all sorts of things such as hormone drugs, antidepressants, industrial wastes, street runoffs, etc, are much more deadly and much more serious and are PUBLIC HEALTH issues, not private issues. The right wing refuses to figure this out. I cannot fathom why but then, they also trend towards wanting ‘faith’ rather than ‘reason’ when dealing with the world. So things can be overlooked. But overlooking our public health has a very steep price. That is, masses of humans can die.
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For example, stopping the nuclear bomb tests was critical for stopping the rising cancer rates that have now killed MILLIONS of people. Millions have died in this ’silent nuclear war’ and are still dying! Yet, during the entire episode in world history, the major nuclear powers all denied that nuclear bombs caused cancer. While all of these same nations were trying to help us with public health care initiatives!
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Humans are very paradoxical creatures! One last thing:
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BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Extinction hits ‘whole families’
Whole “chunks of life” are lost in extinction events, as related species vanish together, say scientists.
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A study in the journal Science shows that extinctions tend to “cluster” on evolutionary lineages – wiping out species with a common ancestor…. .
…Many species have become extinct during the relatively stable periods between those global calamities. But even during such quiet periods, the team found that extinctions tended to cluster into evolutionary families – with closely-related species of clams vanishing together more often than would be predicted by chance…. .
…According to this pattern, the study’s authors point out, extinctions are likely to eliminate entire branches of the evolutionary tree.
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We saw with Dutch Elm Disease, how species can be wiped out by mere germs. The roster of living things killed by the Viral Empire and the Bacterial Kingdom is long and dread. They both have rung down the curtain on many, many life forms and we must take them seriously. Which is also why we have to shut down military germ labs! Gah!!! These are extremely noxious.
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28 Comments
PLovering
August 8, 2009 at 3:17 am
Only a Second American Revolution can save us from the Nazi swine.
“Up to 9 out of 10 rapid tests to diagnose the “swine flu”are wrong, finds CDC study
August 6, 2009 by JB
According to MSNBC, the CDC has found that rapid tests to diagnose the “swine flu” can be wrong as much as nine times out of ten. The “best” test was wrong half the time, the CDC found.
The government study indicating that rapid tests to diagnose the “swine flu” could hardly distinguish between the “swine flu” and normal seasonal flu gives support to those medical experts who say the “swine flu” is a harmless, ordinary flu that is being hyped by the WHO and the vaccine companies to justify a pandemic level 6 declaration and mass forced vaccinations.
The CDC checked the efficiency of rapid tests made by three companies. The tests correctly confirmed swine flu infections only 10 percent to 51 percent of the time, and the tests were better at diagnosing seasonal flu.”
The report can be found here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32316348/ns ... swine_flu/
mey
August 8, 2009 at 4:20 am
“Only a Second American Revolution can save us from the Nazi swine.”
What does this mean? What is “Nazi swine”? How does a Second American Revolution save us from this? Please explain, because I’m extremely confused by this sentence. Maybe it’s some code words or dog whistles I’m supposed to understand, but I really don’t.
emsnews
August 8, 2009 at 5:06 am
The dog whistle is, since science can’t be perfect, we should do nothing but sit around with a finger stuck in our mouths, hoping nothing will happen.
GEEZE: the MSNBC news means we need more money for research in new systems, eh? Note that my story was very clear about both the need for this and why major medical corporations do NOT want to work on any of this (far less profits than viagra!!!)
PS: we already know this is NOT an ‘ordinary’ flu since it is killing people who normally barely notice ‘normal’ flues. I hope this detail is easy to understand.
nah
August 8, 2009 at 5:30 am
As per usual, the US public writhes with fear, agony and partisan anger as we try, for the umpteenth time, to develop a national health program that is as useful and frugal as 80% of the top manufacturing nations on earth.
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Government is just 2 big and wasteful to sell realism into a subsidized monopolized market place inundated with cronie capitolists. So if we get a change in healthcare, its just going to give us more management, the subsidized health system will see to that
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im alive cuz of nukes and penicillin… so thats alln’ all pretty wiked… I like to think that the height of mans achievements requires posterity and vibrant societys, so im in favor of germ research and hi tech dna cure stuff….
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but cows, man, dogs, ants need to grow in the most natural way possible…. the environment stimulates us to develop into the very same… too much man manufactured junk that cleanses the molecular interactions of life from our organs is in my mind scientific vanity… we dont need isolation, its snot and poop and sweat that is humanity
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOO5ofUk4xI&NR=1
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snot and poop and sweat
two beers
August 8, 2009 at 5:42 am
Is PLovering saying that Obama’s a socialfascist who is forcing the Mengele doctors to try to prevent us from contracting swine flu, and that the only way we can prevent this liberal nazi conspiracy is by taking up arms against the brown horde in Washington?
I hope he’s being ironic, or that I’m totally misreading him, because otherwise, this type of anti-democratic (small d) lunacy poses a greater threat to the republic than any virus ever could.
The only entity on earth that can destroy us is….us.
two beers
August 8, 2009 at 5:53 am
Why do opponents of universal coverage hate America so much? Do they think we are incompetent, immoral, weak, lazy? Aren’t we #1? Didn’t we put a man on the moon? Are the following countries better than we are? Why are they all able to offer forms of universal health coverage, but we can’t?
Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, UK….
Not to mention the universal care we US tazpayers pay for citizens of Afghanistan and Iraq!
What a country!
larry, dfh
August 8, 2009 at 6:24 am
But it really is very regulated by the gov’t. Try opening a med school, or a hospital. Try putting up a shingle with ‘Medical Doctor” on it. State medical boards have been given the right to determine who is fit to practice medicine, and that has been turned into ‘how many doctors can we tolerate before prices are driven down?’ Med schools are largely tax-exempt organizations, as are many hospitals. They are subsidized by the taxpayers with the net result that competition is limited and costs are kept high. And whatever obammy and the dems come up with will favor the insurance companies over the taxpayers.
And yes, the big unreported story is the amount of antibiotics fed to food animals. Farm-raising salmon is a big one, as the excess goes right into the water. Salmon don’t have a real strong immune system; since they are constantly swimming, any sick ones get left behind. But when they are confined in a pen their whole lives, they need antibiotics or the whole crop could die. I don’t think catfish have the same problem, but I don’t know.
And don’t forget the D.U., another wonderful product of the nuclear arms industry that will continue to poison for the next 90 billion years.
Aussie email writer
August 8, 2009 at 7:28 am
Re Public health versus private health:…
I agree with Elaine and with horror witnessed how less fortunate Americans suffer because they can’t afford health care – refer:
http://www.youtube.com/aljazeeraenglish ... ex7Qv8IEnQ
Australia has no local owned pharma manufacturing company and the US has several top Global Fortune 100 pharma co’s.
Yet our Federal Health entity thru its sole national buying power can negotiate lowest price deals (for medicine provided under medicare’s health nenefits listed medicine) with your US pharma co’s.
The result, for example, my daughter’s anti pschotic medication (for schizophrenia) costs A$5/month/one medicine when the Recommended retail Price (RRP) for Clozapine is A$650 alone!!
Yet the unfortunate American citizen pays the full price under the deal being negotiated by Obama with the same US pharma co.
I have a worldwide biotech patent and know something about the alleged corrupt and powerfull pharma industry.
Most of their new patented medication was invented by small companies and universities subsidized by the public purse in both our countries and others worldwide.
Elaine correctly suggests the US chronically serial wars and the present health care battles are corporate and institutionally driven for profit considerations direct and indirectly at the expense of your common man interests.
We all want democracy and a free market society because it remains the best available in our imperfect world. The problem in both our countries is the balance of power between public (our common good) and the private good no longer works because the government no longer represents the voter.
We in Australia are ussually about 10 years behind the US and therefore our present concerns are less severe than yours.
Please take my comments as goodwill will from a human being empathises with your predicament and the double standards reflected in the way your pharma treats you and me so differently.
JT
August 8, 2009 at 8:08 am
I´ve been following the debate on healthcare in US and it just seems not to be a debate about the healthcare at all.
Only spreading fear and rumors about “socialized medicine”.
Here in scandinavia health care is organized by municipalities and the state then helps the poorest municipalities with the costs. The most advanced treatments are given in five regional University Hospitals that are funded by surrounding municipalities and the state. Doctors study and are trained in these University Hospitals.
Just a few things about healthcare here and we have our problems nothing is perfect but a few examples:
a if you get sick you can just go to your regional clinic (usually there´s a clinic in every city burrough) and see a doctor, if needed you are then referred to a specialist or tests and treatment. And it costs 11 € / month (not free anymore, but anyone can go whenever their sick 24/7). And if needed whatever treatment you need it´s free (cancer, hearth bypass whatever). The treatment is free.
Why it´s cheaper? I think because we run less unnecessary tests on patients.
And going to a health care clinic is the right of every citizen, everyone can just walk in and see a doctor. And people don´t go just for the fun of it, who wants to go to the doctor when they aren´t sick? Nobody. It´s much more of a problem that us typical stubborn finnish males don´t go even when we should.
b we have private hospitals, dentist, doctors practices etc and you can go get treated there if you want, nobody is stopping you. Municipalities also buy services from the private sector when their resources are full.
c public dentist for example handle only acute cases (broken tooth, cavities), but for a total overhaul of your teeth you go to a private dentist and the government reimburses you about 30% of the charges.
d. children and pregnant women go to Neuvola baby clinics (place of advice) during and after the pregnancy. It´s all free.
f. every school (up till 16 years of age) has a doctors clinic about once week. these doctors also handle the evil vaccinations. And children get checkups a few times a year + you can go if you feel sick. Free.
e. Drugs are not free but for the approved medicines you are reimbursed 42% of the price of medication. If you are really poor you are reimbursed 100%.
And it´s expensive. The total tax rate is 45% of all your income in scandinavia (income, vat, gas etc).
Why this will not work in the US? Here we are a homogenous society and strongly believe in equal rights, equal education and equal care for all citizens. Education is also free and we believe everyone should have the same chance for it no matter how rich or poor your parents are.
In the US the people of means would never go to the same clinic with the riff raff. Here they do.
The services are planned on need basis and cost effiency (prevention is the most cost efficient way of treating people).
US is a society based on money and huge social differences. I doubt this would ever work there.
emsnews
August 8, 2009 at 12:28 pm
JT, my husband has brain damage due to workplace chemical poisoning and he takes the same drugs your daughter takes, we don’t have to pay for it since the state has to pay 100%.
Keep courage with your daughter! My husband and I count each day as a victory when he can overcome the difficulties of a mind that won’t think right. I send my love to you all.
Now, as for the public healthcare phobia in the US: we generally were the laggard nation when it came to healthcare for everyone. Germany had it long, long before the US began to even think about it. France heartily went for it when the US was reluctant to even believe in the concept of ‘germs’.
NYC was far, far, far ahead of the entire nation in all these matters thanks very much to the influx of immigrants, especially the educated people who brought modern social concepts from Europe to the US.
If we look at the public health timeline in the story above, we can see that NYC was the first in many of these health matters.
Sharkbabe
August 8, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I have a good friend in Belgium and one in France, both female, both considerably younger than I. Neither of them can begin to get their heads around the healthcare inhumane extortionist bullshit we submit to here. They can barely fathom it.
Sad for us and our darkness, good for them and their young lives.
emsnews
August 8, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I had no health insurance several times in my life. It was pure hell. I am furious that our government can’t get its head around this simple technical problem as to how to give us good health coverage.
w.c.
August 8, 2009 at 3:40 pm
ems
your husbands industrial accident ,, should have been covered by workers comp,, ‘does he also draw some sort of wage ,, to compensate… plus hospital care and drugs,
is this paid for by the state . or workers comp,
how long ago did this happen .. bless your heart for taking care of your husbands needs ..
ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ
ELAINE: My husband was the photographer for the geologists and biologists with the State Museum complex. They cut off his air supply while he was working in a sealed dark room. Serious brain damage, he almost died that day.
It turned an Eagle Scout/hunter/bike racer/skiier/swordfighter into an invalid. We won our cases in court and the state has to pay for everything but it fixes none of the things my husband lost. He would rather be a poor Eagle Scout/hunter/bike racer/skiier/swordfighter than an invalid. Thanks to inflation, our funds fall lower and lower and now, I no longer use heating you have to buy, I go out all summer long (I’m about 60 years old) with my tractor and harvest firewood, split it and stack it.
We were cheated. But then, we have a home and we have a garden, a forest and we have faith that we can win in the end and we have loving children who surround us and will look after us when we get too old.
Paul S
August 8, 2009 at 3:58 pm
ANY “Free” market talk re health care is completely dishonest, for a number of reasons. One, the so-called free market can NOT be applied when it comes to health care. No one chooses to be a diabetic, no one chooses to have a heart condition, etc.. And no one can say, “I am not going to buy this heart medication, it’s too expensive.”
Only if people COULD choose, then there would be a free market dynamic. The health care industry has a captive customer base and they take full advantage of this. Second, for all their professed love of “Free” markets, the drug companies are heavily subsidized for their R&D courtesy of the US taxpayer.
Then they make their drugs in China (don’t put any lead in my Xanax, thank you very much.)–then gouge the consumer on price. Big Insurance gets a huge subsidy too. They are allowed to cherry pick whomever they want to insure and ignore everyone else. This explains why William Obrien, CEO of United Health Group, can make $120 million in salary and $250 million in stock options, (Obrien was caught in a stock backdating scandal, so he had to give a bunch of the stock back–no prison of course.
At least he didn’t bounce a check for 20 bucks.heh.) The WHOLE health care system, as is, is structured for maximum profit, which means NO competition. It’s amusing to hear the healthcare shills scream about how government can’t do anything, like healthcare, right. This even though we have very successful medical care with Medicare/Medicaid and the VA. Here’s an example of the lies the healthcare lobby spouts: on a call-in type talk show, a caller claimed to know how Canada’s healthcare system works.
The caller made the claim that he knew for a FACT that Canada had only THREE MRI machines. I did some research. Canada has around 250 MRI machines. Amazing. Just bald faced LIES from the healthcare lackeys/lobbyists. I also am amused by the right wing talk radio whores–like the oxycontin kid, Rush Limbaugh.
Every one of these guys knows a Canadian member of Parliament who comes down to the US for medical care. Amazing coincidence isn’t it? And RIGHT in time for the health care debate here in the US. I must say, being a Canadian member of Parliament is a dangerous job. Alot of them seem to get cancer and need to come to the US for medical care. Maybe it’s that cold Canadian air? Finally, there is the business lobby.
They want their cake and eat it too. On the one hand, they HATE paying health insurance premiums, which is a big reason why they outsource. And this outsourcing mainly includes the 40+ age group of employees. BUT: employers don’t want to lose their big bargaining chip, health care insurance. So the Chamber of Commerce fights healthcare reform even though it would cost employers LESS money if we had a public option style health care system. Sleazy. Just plain sleazy.
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ELAINE: Dear Paul, I stuck in paragraph spaces so people will read this wonderful posting. People tend to skip over long boxes of text. It is a visual thing which is part of how the script looks on a computer. I hope you don’t mind me doing this. I want to thank you for posting.
w.c.
August 8, 2009 at 4:18 pm
workers comp insurance
some monolistics states that have just a state run system are charging more for workers comp premium than those states that allow competition,
nevada ,, program run by the state was a complete disastor,, montania, was so far in the red. private companys had to bail them out,, california has some of the highest rates in the nation as a public carrier,,
workers comp as a whole has a pretty effective program .. over seen by state regulators on the local level , all workers are covered the minute the walk on a work site.. Hawaii has coverage from the hearth,, to the work place ..meaning the minute they leave hone to go to work they are covered.
the health program with the right state administration and proper deductables could in my opinion be much more effective state by state than a federal program .
washington has a monolistic system in comp and some of the highest comp rates in nation,,, their health insurance regulations are so strict that premium are so high,, that it drivers out any option .
have the proper health system in place with deductables set.. yadda
then send all claims not covered to washington. and for a couple of aircraft carriers .. all claims can be covered ..
emsnews
August 8, 2009 at 5:45 pm
It is very hard to get workman’s comp in NY state. My husband was seriously disabled and at one hearing, was in the hospital! Yet, the state kept saying he could work. For five long years, we went in and out of court and had NO MONEY AT ALL.
We lived in a tent complex my son and I built out of scrap material from the town dump. We grew food in summer, hunted in winter, we went to food pantries, my son got shoes from school fundraisers because the teachers felt sorry for him, we got our clothing from the town dump.
Then, we won. The back payments paid for my building materials for my house which my son and I and some friends built so we would have no mortgage (we can’t afford one).
The system is set up so if you have no support, you die if it goes to court. If you do have support, you use up all your savings (we had savings, thank god! It paid for our medical bills! Used every penny).
Luckily for us, the last judge was asked by the state lawyers to give yet another delay. But my son told the judge that we were living in a tent for 5 years and he wanted to be able to buy shoes for once. The judge actually cried.
He then ruled in our favor and told us, ‘The state will pay everything very fast, I assure you’. And he had the check hand delivered to our tent complex just to see if it was real. He was bowled over to see how we managed to live on nearly nothing for 5 years.
w c
August 8, 2009 at 6:01 pm
emsnews
August 8, 2009 at 5:45 pm
so N.Y, State was a state run workers comp program ..
was private w.c. allowed .. is it now ,, i think so ,,
so lets turn stuff over to the state lol
wait years for coverage.. i have been involved with insurance for thirty years aND SOME OF THE STUFF i read .. i just scratch my head.. never5 had these problems ..
peoploe bought coverage..cliam were settled with no problems ,,
mANY HAVE no clue about THE INSURANCE INdustry .. and its need in all commerce and business..
sure some horror storys’ goes with ever thing in life government is not the solution,,
then the horror stories will really appear
in fact i set on the board of a private workers comp company.
Paul S
August 8, 2009 at 6:28 pm
If I could add one more thing. A number of states have adopted one form or another of uninsured health care. Why does it have (so far) a checkered track record? The same reason you see the “astroturf” lobbyists at the Town Hall meetings now. Big Pharma, Big Insurance have a vested interest in publicly financed healthcares failure. Many times, the stated benefits of the program can NOT in any way be funded due to inadequate funding. This is done deliberately so politicians will have some cover when they say, “Now ya see, the private sector is the only place we will get REAL solutions for healthcare.” Properly funded, the system will work; the VA system shows it can and will work.
w.c.
August 8, 2009 at 6:43 pm
ralph
in my opinion you know beans about insurance ,,
so much yabber ,, with little substance ,,
w.c.
August 8, 2009 at 6:49 pm
lets see how the government runs motors
last cash for clunkers .. bought trucks , and cost 45,000 a deal..now 2 billion more for a program of govenment run flunkies,,
their is a way but people refuse to read and have the brain power to comprehend ,
and i WILL bet noboDy has opened the book capitalism by reisman and read two pages with any understaNDING .
ems have you. or you druther fume lol
buffalo_ken
August 8, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Paul S. – nicely reasoned.
____________________
Insurance – just now it is “bad”.
You know about “derivatives” don’t ya? They suck. They try to suck all the funds their way, but the problem for them is that the funds are fiat – so they never had real standing in the first place. Go back and study 1913 – Jekyll Island and such.
So the derivatives are pulling a vacuum because there is nothing left to pull.
So that is why the derivatives are now about to learn what “gravity” really means.
Just my opinion.
_________________
as an aside just today a tree fell down on a power line nearby my home…..but the fire department came, then the police, then the technicians and they did a good job making reparations (so to speak).
funny because it was just in front of (ok – shameless plug to follow) the property discussed in the following story if you are so inclined:
http://www.kjh-es.net/
Some things are just too funny to even be real. No matter, I link the above site here for the sake of some cross-linking in the even that my site refuses to publish in the future. I hope you can understand.
ps – I have recently learned so much about Vista – from MS. Oh, the stories I could tell….maybe later.
PLovering
August 8, 2009 at 8:24 pm
“What does this mean? What is “Nazi swine”?
@mey
Welcome all pilgrims.
Take 9/11: You do know that the five Israelis jumping up and down on top of the car in the parking lot (while the WTC was imploding) were arrested, questioned, and finally flown back to Israel where they appeared on TV saying, “Yes, we were there to document the event.”
Depopulation & Genocide … read Rockefeller and other quotes:
http://www.whale.to/b/genocide_q.html
Swine Flu Vaccine adjuvant “Squalene” caused GWS (Gulf War Syndrome). Soldiers
left swinging in the wind. Read Gary Matsumoto.
http://www.vaccine-a.com/intro.html
The Depression of 2010 is no accident. It was documented, chapter and verse, in briefing papers handed to the new Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, in 1998.
Remembering that Rockefeller is in favor of depopulation and euthanasia, check his outrageous statement in favor of ramming the Health bill through with a simple majority:
“Our job is to make sure that we’re undeterred–undeterred by what we hear at town hall meetings and what we read and what we watch…. It’s an easy choice. You go for getting the bill by whatever means you have to, stretching the bipartisanship as far as you can. If that works, fine. If it doesn’t, then go on to something else, but you’ve got to get the bill. You have to have the bill.”
Hope this helps.
buffalo_ken
August 8, 2009 at 8:58 pm
There are so many easy ways to save on health care. So many. So many – it is so obvious.
So, on the opposite, because this is so obvious, then so is something else.
Obvious as pudding.
ziff house
August 9, 2009 at 4:32 pm
”9/11: You do know that the five Israelis jumping up and down on top of the car in the parking lot (while the WTC was imploding) were arrested, questioned, and finally flown back to Israel where they appeared on TV saying, “Yes, we were there to document the event.”
YES!! that one is true, i remember 20/20 did a piece on this right after the event. It it is now long forgotten.
Re your health care, another example of the information muddle machine you live under. There was a good piece in the NY’er about how in some parts of the country the system is run to maximize profits for doctors!
Ed-M
August 10, 2009 at 12:43 am
@two beers: I recall reading somewhere on the web that China, when she modernized and adopted capitalism, patterned her health care system after the medical industry / private health insurance model that is still prevalent here. The service became so bad and the prices so high, that the Chinese people complained bitterly to the central government. Result? China went back to the old people’s republic health service!
Ed-M
August 10, 2009 at 12:52 am
@JT, I think you hit on the real reason why so many people of means here in the US do not want universal(ly insured) health care: they might have to go to the same clinic as the riff raff! Plus, the riff raff would receive just as good care as them!
Due to segregation by race and class in this country, the former would be absolutely impossible.
Ed-M
August 10, 2009 at 1:17 am
Obviously, if we can’t have a fully-funded national health service or public health insurance, then we’ll have to try the conservatives’ approach (which noone hears of these days): mandatory health savings accounts and catastrophic insurance for those who can fully afford it, vouchers and medicaid for the poor and nearly poor, and a combination of HSAs and CI / vouchers and medicaid for the majority inbetween. Of course, that will never fly if the libs take the cons on their offer cause the cons don’t want any of THEIR beautiful money to go toward the health care of “shiftless” “******s”.
CK
August 11, 2009 at 12:57 pm
I am still not seeing anyone with plans to increase the supply of doctors and assorted other witch doctor’s assistants. So, more demand for sick people -> more sick people
->higher price for treating sick people -> higher cost for sickpeopletreatement insurance. Supply of health care providers is a governmentally mandated and enforced monopoly.
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