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lazarus
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Say it ain't so, Joe.

Post by lazarus »

For those of you out there who still support George W. Bush and his unjust invasion of Iraq, I suggest you follow this link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20430153/

A man has got to be damn stupid to still support Bush at this juncture.

Brad
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Post by djui5 »

Wow, nice link Brad! It's a shame the lengths of corruption this administration is involved with. Makes me sad to be an American.
Randy Wright
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lazarus
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Sad

Post by lazarus »

Randy,
it's very sad.

I'm not ashamed to be an American, but I am ashamed of some people who are. This shouldn't happen in our country under any circumstances.

Brad
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Post by djui5 »

I agree!! The funny thing is our founding fathers knew this was going to happen some day, and it's why they wrote the constitution like they did, and set in place the laws they did. The thing is they seem to be disregarded on a daily basis by our government everywhere. Greed is a powerful thing to stop.
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Pathetic

Post by lazarus »

Randy,

I wonder at what point these people will realize their ignorant excuses have come unraveled, exposing them as the fools they truly are. Bush supporters remain adrift in denial. They are just not good people.

Brad
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Post by djui5 »

I fear the day when people realize what happened/is happening. I think this is the worst thing to ever happen to this country, personally.
Randy Wright
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lazarus
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Yep!

Post by lazarus »

I agree.
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Post by zentull »

Not much of a fine line between any politician. Partisanship is one of the biggest problems to overcome, not to mention apathy of the American people.

I do not trust politicians

I trust the media less

I trust the values instilled in me of what is right and wrong.

I know quite a few young men who are doing some growing up far from home, they are admittedly homesick, but believe in what they are doing. I will take their word over anyones. There is one who has come home and will never know what it is like to get married, have children and grow old.

I know a lot of stuff they catch on the internet bothers them. We are talking about young men who probably haven't had their first girl and volunteered to do what they believed in. I want to tell Terry he still is a dweeb and tell Alan that you don't have to marry the first girlfriend, there will be others. I want to watch them screw up their lives and tell them I told you so..........

I miss those guys and I worry about them, but they tell me it was their choice and they believe in what they are doing. They may be just kids still to me, but they grew up fast.

You guys might not understand why, but they believe in this country and believe in what they are doing. Those boys have turned into men and I am very proud of the men they have become. Please remember that the internet is one of the ways they touch home. They need everyones support to remain focused and to get home safely.
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Zen

Post by lazarus »

Zentull,

you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect your loyalty to your friends, but all of that changes absolutely nothing. The USA does not belong in Iraq, and I do not support what our soldiers are doing there under any circumstance.

Just because we love our own does not mean our own are above accountability.

Brad
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Kudos

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

Very well said.

My thanks,

Joe
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Post by djui5 »

It's not the troops I have a problem with. They have my utmost respect. It's their boss/bosses :)
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Respect???

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

Sounds like pure bullshit to me.

You say you respect the troops. Most of them are saying they believe in what they are doing there. Many ask to return to continue the job. They believe they are doing the RIGHT thing.

How do you respect the troops, when you don't respect the mission they believe in? If you don't have respect for the mission, you don't respect their judgement or commitment to the task they are giving their lives and blood for.

They believe the same things that their commander and leaders believe in. You have no respect for that belief, and don't respect the leaders.
How do you seperate the troops from their leaders, when they all believe in the same mission?

The troops and their families know there is no seperation. Therefore, when you and Brad trumpet you disdain for the war in Iraq, and their leaders, they know you are placing the same curses on their heads.

Having been in this position myself, I believe I have some knowledge of what they are feeling. Your one handed applause for "our" troops will echo in their ears and hearts for many years to come.

By all means vote out the "war mongers", but have the decency to leave our fighting men and women some small scrap of pride. They are proud of what they are doing.

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Post by djui5 »

Joe,
I believe the troops are fighting for what they believe in. That, my friend, isn't what the war is really about, though we went into war under that rouse. The troops just do what they're told. How can you fault someone for that?

The troops believe they are fighting for our freedom, and for the good people in Iraq. That is why I respect them, they fight for the good, not the bad.
Randy Wright
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Robots???

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

"The troops just do what they're told. How can you fault someone for that?"

By all means, keep calling them mindless idiots. That will make them feel better.

They keep telling you what they THINK. Are you listening to them?

Why do you think you are so much smarter and more perceptive than out troops? Since they are on the ground, among the people, face to face with our "stated" enemy, why is your opinion of why they are there, better than theirs?

Truth is, you could care less what they think or how your combined opinions make them feel. Just send your donations directly to the enemy, why pussyfoot around about it. Aid and comfort comes in many packages. The way you are sending it.....you can still convince yourself that it's only words.

Makes me sick.

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by zentull »

First Ammendment forum Joe.........

The place to always disagree and a place I usually avoid with a passion.

I have to play politics everyday of my life and I hate it. I can't see how the lifers can take it. Too many nights I have a hard time sleeping and going over stuff and second guessing myself. Can't alienate anyone that can make it tough to get the job done. Have to deal with the media folks and all that.........I get misquoted all the time. They always add adjectives that make me sound so weird.

Of course it has taught me how to control the F bomb when on TV......

But I figure it is the way to make a difference and try to set an example. Can't sit on the porch and bitch unless I go in and wrestle with the alligators first.
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Post by zentull »

One last thing to add before I leave this behind me and wonder why I got started in the first place.

I worked with a guy for years named Bill. Good guy and he would whistle up every patriotic tune possible on any holiday. Had to listen to a hundred refrains of "Yankee Doodle" on Veterans day.....Old Bill would drive me crazy somedays.

Bill signed up for Vietnam right out of High School, his squad ended up in bookoo shit and Bill got a star and a lot of stuff for getting them out and saving some lives. He never said a word about it or anything political in the years I knew him. A friend of his told me about it and when I asked Bill brought in all his stuff, including news articles and medals. Genuine War hero working in a wood shop, just trying to make do until retirement. Don't know if Bill thought it was right or wrong being over there, He did tell me there were some pretty strange bugs in the jungle.

When he got home it was the typical crap of that era......

Bottom line is if he didn't go, there would be a few less guys who came home. Doesn't matter what you think of the situation, it just is. Sometimes though people make a difference in the worst situations. If you ever are sitting in a bar and some guy who looks like Yosemite Sam is whistling up "Yankee Doodle", buy him another round and say "Thanks Bill".
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
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Correct.....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

I believe I have a pretty good idea what this topic is all about.

Everything can't always be boiled down to "politics". Everyone has a right to say what they believe, but sometimes speaking your mind has consequences......sometimes it's the people who are dying so you can speak those thoughts who must face those consequences.....while we sit safe at home.

Because this is the First Amendment Forum, I can say some of the thoughts being expressed here.....MAKE ME SICK!!! Those same thoughts are being expressed every day, on the TV, Radio, Internet (like Brad) where our troops can read them and in newspapers at home and all over the world.

The enemys of our country are paying attention. They know if they just kill some more innocent people, blow up a few more soldiers, saw off a few more contractors heads (who are building roads, school, hospitals.....etc.), people like Brad and Randy will scream even louder.

That is the war they are winning. They will not consider it a victory until your wife and mine are wearing burkas. Others, we call friends, will fall onto their knees and pray to Mecca.

Well, that's the way I see it anyway.

Take care,

Joe
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Bill's Are Good.

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

Good story.

When I see an old Vet sitting in a restaurant, I will call the waitress over and pay for his meal. I have walked out of many a restaurant with tears in my eyes. Most of these crusaders have no idea.

Take care,

Joe
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Post by TC ASKEY »

Lazarus,

Anyone in Iraq not in the military is there for one reason.

Money.... Including the whistelblower.

Sorry!! Don't have any sympathy for carpetbaggers.

Terry
TERRY - Update your email address. Current one is dead and you will not receive notices.
lazarus
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Off Subject

Post by lazarus »

The link I provided was to a news article about contractor corruption, not about our soldiers. You have now corrupted the intent of this thread in the same manner you have corrupted the truth about Iraq. I'm not impressed.

Oh, and I don't buy into your rhetoric for a moment.


Brad
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Joe,

Post by lazarus »

As for you, Joe...
I not only bought breakfast for a vet this morning, I cooked it for him too!

Action speaks louder than words.

Brad
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Post by TC ASKEY »

lazarus,

You and Randy are entitled to your opinion the same as everyone.
The bottom line is I do support the war in Iraq.

The sad part is....we are there now because we did not finish it the first time.

Terry
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Good Deeds

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Brad,

That is truly a good deed. I did exactly the same thing, and then I ate the breakfast I had prepaired. :)

Take care,

Joe
lazarus
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Stupid

Post by lazarus »

Stupid is as stupid does.

Brad
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Stupid

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Brad,

"Stupid is as stupid does."

Who are you addressing that comment to, or about?

Joe
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