Heidleberg

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Heidleberg

Post by count »

Is there anyone that can shed any light on whether Jacob Waltz did in fact go to Heidleberg University and was schooled on mining? I have heard stories that he did , but would like to know if anyone else has heard that. Also like to see a survey on how the Dutchman's name was really spelled before he left Germany. I have not seen any substantiated proof on one way or the other( Waltz, Waltzer, Walzer, on and on.)
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Post by count »

I also have heard the story about Waltz going to the Heidleberg University. Heidleberg is not far from the area in Wurttemberg where Waltz is reportedly from. While there is no record of him ever attending the University , the records are not complete, so anything could be possible. I tend to believe he did not. If Waltz had been trained in mining, I believe he would have probably put his education to use in California as a geologist or mining engineer instead of being a miner and a prospector. <br>As for the name , all we really know is that when Waltz used his name in America, he always spelled it, Waltz. He could have changed it after arriving in the US. but I don't see an obvious reason why he would have. The name Waltz, is quite common in the southern Germany (Wurttemberg area). It is originally a Swiss name. Many Swiss immigrated into southern Germany in the 1500's and 1600's. Both Helen Corbin and Thomas Glover did some intensive research into the name. While Waltz's immigration to America is still in question, there are no fewer than 17 Jacob Waltz's who immigrated from Germany between 1820 and 1848. A good half of these Jacob Waltz's would fit the "Dutchman". One ship manifest, recorded by the ISTG (Immigrant Ship Transcription Group) , lists a Jacob Waltz, and another man, who showed up later in California, Arizona Territory, and Phoenix census. Probably a coincidence but to date is the most compelling argument for Waltz's arrival in America.
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Post by count »

I've seen the Heidleberg reference in several places, but I've never seen any documentation to support it, nor have any of reference writers said where they got the idea. It seems to me that a university-trained mining engineer living in a part of the country lousy with gold and silver mines would not have been raising chickens and living in a hovel - he would have been making a good living at one of the mining outfits. I think the Heidleberg story is right up there with the story about Waltz and Weiser saving Don Peralta from the card cheat, that is, someone said it once and it's been repeated ever since. Maybe Oren Arnold.
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Post by count »

Interesting that the subject of the Dutchman's name and Heidleberg University come up together. The tin type photograph that is one of many that professes to be the Dutchman can be seen in the books " Esperanza" pg. 68 , by Don Shade and " Crooked Mountain" back page , amongst other publications, I obviously, I'am quite familiar with. It is owned by Greg Davis, who most of you probaly know of. After examing it very carefully, you can discern punched out on each side some words. They read on the one side Jacob Walzer, and Heidleberg on the other. I personally believe this is a picture of the Dutchman at a young age ( college age), and for it to be a phoney I can not fiqure out why someone would of put Heidleberg. Not too many people know that there is evidence that he did go to that university, especially someone that is trying to commit a farce. Also I feel that his name may very well have been spelled Walzer. Many times an immigrant's name was changed when they landed here, by officials, to shorten it for example.The dropping of er and adding o T is not that far fetched. As far as the Dutchman's existence, here in America, there is plenty of evidence that he was here in Arizona. He was naturalized in Mississippi, and can be traced to Arizona. His existence here is recorded by many documents , and his death is not a matter of one of several Walz's or Walzer's . In tracking down the man's history and the people he knew when he died , eg. Julia Thomas and Petrasch , if this man that died October 25, 1891 was not the Dutchman , than we will have to dismiss the greatest lost mine legend entirely.
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Post by count »

I believe Heidleberg is a town with a university in it. The "Heidleberg" on the tintype doesn't necessarily refer to the university.
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Post by count »

If the photograph you mean is the Das Lucas photo, I agree. I've seen that photo and it is authentic. It looks exactly as you describe, a college age man with the name sort of punched into the tintype with a sharp object. Since the records of old Heidelbeg University are no where near complete, no one can say for certain the Dutchman didn't attend there. There may truly be evidence somewhere that proves he did. That would be an interesting piece of the puzzle. <br>Waltz's name has been discussed for many years. One thing I've noticed is, how a German name is written and how they pronounce it is confusing. The name Waltz isn't pronounced with the "T" at all. It is pronounced Walz in the Northern states and with a sort of soft "r" at the end in the Southern area, (Walzr). If you didn't see the name written, just listened to a German say it, it would sound like Walz or Walzr depending on where in Germany you were. T. Glover wrote about this diference in German dialects in his 1st book. A good number of people in Germany and America couldn't read or write in the Dutchman's day, if they never saw the Dutchman's name spelled out for them, they would try to spell it the way they thought it sounded. That could account for the many variations. It is certainly possible that the Dutchman did alter his name, or as Ron said, an immigration official altered it for him when he landed in America.
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Post by count »

Dhunter, That is absolutely correct. It may have just been the town, but if it were the Dutchman in the tin type , why not the universities name? It is easy to question things and we should do that, but what as we have said before is verifiable? All we have is some threads of history that sometimes get woven together into a rope we can hang our hats on. LDM, it is the Das Lucas tin type,and I have done considerable research on the origin of this picture , and all I can say is that I believe in it's authenticity. This picture was not found by Das Lucas. A Bud Dunn found it in the Mountain. He was Ted Cox's partner. In 1988 I first saw the tin type and it was offered to me by Das Lucas for 75.00. I refused to buy it then for I didn't trust him. Two years ago I offered the present owner one thousand dollars for it , but he would not sell it. Edit Delete
249 0 0 0 Re: Heidleberg One thing I forgot to mention is that I think LDM is right on about the name.
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Post by count »

Ron: No reason it couldn't be the univerity. I was just playing the devil's advocate because everyone seems to be equating the town with the university, and it ain't necessarily so. <br>It's just that when people write a place on a photograph, it usually is just to record where the photo was taken. That and the conditions in which Waltz(er) lived suggest (to me anyway) that he was not an educated professional. <br>But then, maybe he was. Maybe this is another part of the Dutchman lore where you just have to decide what you want to believe.
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