Charlebois and Bees - Another View

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Charlebois and Bees - Another View

Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:14 am

Most EVERY desert spring in EVERY state has restrictions as to how close you can camp. I have even read that Arizona has a statewide law to that effect. <br> <br>So why should Charlebois be any different? In fact having seen all sorts of garbage left in there over the years I am all for enforcing such already existing regulations. Granted I doubt anyone on this board would or has ever caused any such problems. However even if you guys pack out your trash it doesn't mean everyone else does. Also, from the wildlife point of view having the springs empty (i.e. fully accessible to the animals) overnight has also got to be a priority. <br> <br>I guess my bottom line is that just like everything else they set the rules to "protect" us from the lowest common denominator. <br> <br>As for bees boxes being in the Massacre Grounds area, if they near the parking lot (outside of the Wilderness) that is one thing. If they are inside the wilderness area that is another. I doubt the Forest Service would or even can give permission for that.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:14 am

Visitor, <br>I think you'll find the people on this board not only don't leave trash at Charlebois and other places, but pack out other people's trash that they encounter. The rub is that these nimrods suddenly feel that after hundreds of years of use, places like this need "protecting" from people like us, who have cared for them all this time. I mean, come on! Telling Ron not to water his livestock at the spring? Introducing an endangered species not previously there to gain such control? These are hostile, insidious acts! Have you ever read 1984? <br>I have been camping at Charlebois for many years, and the place has never been a trash heap to my knowledge. <br> <br>There aren't that many places to camp out there with readily available water. No water, no campers. What are these guys really trying to do? Let's speculate: They are closing the springs; they tore down the old Ward cabin; these are/were both sites that aided Dutch hunters. Coincidence?

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:15 am

I already agreed that no one on this board is causing problems. <br> <br>Your claims to the contrary, this is not a new issue. Spring restrictions are DECADES old. <br> <br>Preventing camping there is not the same thing as preventing access. You can still camp near there and get all the water you want there (unless maybe you have a commercial permit and cannot use the area to water your stock as part of your permit requirements). Granted falling asleep and waking up under those trees and in that greenery is hard to beat. So, I do agree that something is lost. I just disagree that all is lost and that this is something new. <br> <br>As to your logic that hundreds of years of use makes right, then that makes the point for the government. Afterall the animals and plants were there first. If anything has access rights it is Nature according to that logic. <br> <br>I just do not see the same conspiracy there that you and others seem to. I guess only time will tell as to whether or not there is a long term plan to fence the public out entirely. <br> <br>Here's hoping you are not right. <br> <br>Then again I don't see many of the mine clues that you folks do. Here's hoping you are right on those.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:18 am

Well, I don't agree with you about the Government's rights (who exactly is "the Government"?), but I must say you are extremely well-spoken, and it's a pleasure to disagree with someone polite. Here's hoping an equitable solution can be found for all this

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:18 am

No doubt hard core "environmentalists" would have even a different spin than either of us. <br> <br>In any event, this is still the America where we are free to say what we want. <br> <br>Thanks for you kind personal words and keep up your informative postings.

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