No Camping part deux

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No Camping part deux

Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:03 am

Anyone heard anything back from any congressmen about the Charlebois outrage? I haven't heard a peep.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:03 am

I got a response from Sen. Mccain's office. You know the form letter, " Glad to hear from you , we'll be in touch etc.etc. etc.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:20 am

Ron, <br>You said earlier that G&F put an endangered Arizona pup fish in Charlebois spring. <br> <br>The Superstition Wilderness Implementation Plan contains an Appendix A, "Forest Service Orders Pertaining to the Superstition Wilderness and Adjacent Areas". Order 12-59, item #4, revised 11/1/98, prohibits "Possessing or transporting any Federal or State-listed 'Endangered or Threatened' bird, fish, or animal". <br> <br>Is there a contradiction here, or is it just me?

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:21 am

The statewide law concerning desert springs and waterholes has to do with hunting restrictions. You cannot hunt within 1/4 mile of a waterhole. Springs, streams and waterholes have no "camping only" restrictions unless it is a special case applied by a specific Government agency for a specific purpose. <br> <br>Garbage left in the wilderness is a problem. Many of us have packed out others trash on every trip we make into the mountains. There already are laws on the books to deal with people who trash the wilderness, so why not enforce the laws that are already on the books? Restricting access only punishes those who are conscientious hikers and campers. Of course the Government has an agenda they are going to implement in the Wilderness, and the closing of springs is just a step along the way. <br> <br>As most evryone knows, wildlife rarely uses springs to get water, they use the numerous tanks, pools, streams and depressions that are scattered throughout the mountains. So closing the springs to camping so the wildlife can come in to drink is ridiculous. <br> <br>Finally, the concept of the Government making restrictive laws to punish everybody for the stupidity of the lowest members of our society is typical of the modern, liberal thinking that want's Government to "save us" and "protect us" from every harm, real or imagined.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:21 am

You might say that Charlebois Spring is the only reasonable existing water source in the area for humans, but certainly not for wildlife, or even domestic stock. There are numerous places all up and down LaBarge Canyon and above in Charlebois Canyon where wildlife can get water and in fact prefer to. <br> <br>This whole deception by the Forest Service and the State Fish and Game Dept. stinks! First came the parking lots where they took your names and questioned you and threatened you with statutes. Excuse me, but people who have committed no crime should not have to be lectured by a creep in a green suit about what will happen to you if you ever do commit a crime. Next came the fee boxes and the New Jersey fine collectors taking down plate numbers, photographing cars and their occupants. <br>Next came the off limits areas in the mountains. And there are still people willing to defend the Government and their illegal and unconstitutional actions.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:22 am

I just got back and read the posts. Hiker, I don't know if domestic livestock is the same when mine might be classified as commercial livestock. You don't have to be a genius to look and see what is happening all through the U.S.The government is pushing more control not less in all facets of our lives. This is but another place where limiting access is control. There are places outside the wilderness that they are fencing to the public, sure you can go to them and get the combination or key to get through, but by feeding us small doses of there regulations , what will be the big picture? As for the pup fish being transported by the Forest Service, My wife and I were told by the district ranger of the Mesa District , at that time, that he personally took them in. I too remember when they took licence plate numbers down and generally acted like the Gestapo at the gate. I had a large hand in stopping that procedure , with the help of the same ranger I just spoke of, so I would not give out his name. He finally worked well with us, and unfortunately he was transfered. Here , close to where I live I'm surrounded by State land, where the trash dumping is unbelievable. They have started to fence in all of this land now. So, on the other side I must say I have very mixed emotions , as to being shut off of land we had access to , but now the dumping is reduced. I don't know what the answer is , but don't infringe on my individual rights as a citizen of this country.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:22 am

I'm with ya on that Ron! <br> I wonder if posting "ominous" signs like "Littering is an offense punishable by $500" and "Ranger Patrol Area" would help curb the garbage that goes in (and stays) there. Otherwise, it's just another case of the government throwing more bullshit, empty (or insidious!) laws at it, which makes increasingly fewer people happy.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:22 am

Well. obviously you've already thought about this "domestic stock" thing, but if not your animals, what ARE they referring to? Cattle could be called commercial stock too. I would interpret it as saying they have no right to try and keep you from water. Wouldn't "domestic" be the opposite of "wild"? As for the pup fish, My point is that the law says they can't do that, so why are they? <br>This is like a creeping fungus. The gestapo taking notes, the access restrictions, the attempted intimidation. Why are they doing this? Why should they focus on the Superstitions like this? Ron, are they exerting pressure on you in any other ways? These actions seem aimed at putting guys like you out of business.

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Post by count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:22 am

No, they are not directly aiming at putting us out of business, although , sometimes ,they make it diffcult to operate.The Forest Service is controlled by outside forces, and their greatest force that they listen to is the extreme enviromentalists.The Forest Service oils the squeakist wheel.Certainly being an arm of the government , they are control , control, control. Alot of policies are also under the interpertation of the district ranger, and that sometimes is bad and sometimes alright. As I said the gestapo tactics at the gate have stopped. Also I must tell you that working through the Treasure Trove Permit, although a daunting task working with the Forest Service, has almost been a pleasurable experience, now remember I said almost.

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