b.s brigade

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Post by count »

sorry to sound churlish.but there is nothing on this forum that cannot be found in any number of "dutchman" novels.its all the same nonsensical rubbish i.e stone statues -cacti in a row-stone maps-crackpot theories-hidden secrets- death bed revelations-tricks in the trail etc . and lo and behold another moron comes up with another book .its like living in a zoo.if its a mine u seek or watever else -get out there and look not read and try to find its location from any one of these hairbrained novels adorning the local bookshop.get a life -youre all quite -quite mad lol.by the way did you hear the rumour that teddy roosevelt once crapped in the mts? the signs are there in the shape of a paloverde tree inscribed with the words teddy crapped here.get a life please
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Post by count »

anonymous you know what?i quite agree with you. most of the books are nonsense.there isnt any doubt about it.but maybe -just maybe theres a chance that somewhere amongst all the hyperbole something is genuine-i certainly hope so otherwise all of us here are fools.but as you say-"dutchman"books -bah humbug!
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Post by count »

Anonymous3 et al, <br>Of course, you're right about there being very little here that isn't in a book somewhere. But we've all read those books, and most of us do go out in the mountains and look. (Notice, Mr. Scott DID go out and look). When we find something significant that we've never heard of before, well, we don't necessarily talk about it here until we check things out. That sort of limits the content of this site to already-known things. If you didn't enjoy Scott's book, that's certainly your right. But he's just saying what he thinks. <br>Several people here have a great deal of knowledge of the history of the mountains and the people involved in them. The rest of us get the benefit of their knowledge, and that adds to our enjoyment of the subject. <br>If you're expecting to see some great revelation on this web site, well, I think you're in for a disappointment. This is no different from a web site where, say, model railroad enthusiasts get together to talk about trains. Why not just relax and enjoy what IS here? <br>And, you don't have to post under multiple names to make your point.
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Post by count »

i dont? lol
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Post by count »

I couldn't disagree more! As a hiker and not a "Dutch hunter", I'm still fascinated by the legend and really enjoy reading the posts on this board (I've read thru them all). You guys really know your stuff! I know most of it is unimportant in the greater scheme of life, but it is fun and I would submit that someone who has a passion about something, anything, probably has more of "a life" than many others. <br> <br>I would have to agree, though, that as a novice, I was not very impressed with either of Scott's books. I thought his findings (a rock!?) would be more at home on a web site or a journal than written and sold as a book. <br> <br>I notice that you guys are reluctant to criticize any book just because you yourselves haven't written one. I don't think that's a valid stance. Better no book, than a half-a.. one. <br> <br>I suspect Peter (a veritable walking encyclopedia on the subject!) and a few others on this board could take a couple weekends and piece together a better work than Scott's. And who knows, you may even run "spell/grammar check" before you send it down to Kinko's;)
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Post by count »

Hiker , you are absolutrly correct. If one thinks he is going to read a book and go right to the mine, he is the moron. Even if someone knew where it was and wrote a book he would not reveal it in such a way that would be obvious. I meet many people looking for the mine and most are out in left field,but sometimes I can glean something , if nothing else it is interesting to meet some of these people. As far as this forum , one also is probaly not going to find the mine from anything said here , but I must say it has been my pleasure to converse with some of the most knowledgable people on this site as I have ever talked to. As for far out theories, as Sitting Bull and the mine: sowhat , I've heard more way out ones than that. When we begin to say things are not possible, it's time to stop hunting for the mine. We just have to keep reality in sight as we deal with the stories, and give thanks for people like Peter and Hiker who help do that.
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Post by count »

I just posted and then read Fritzski's post. I wanted to thank him for telling the spirit of this site. I don't feel that just because you have not written a book , that it would make you reluctant to criticize one. In fact there was some on Scott's book that I read here already. An author writes to stimulate their audience. Good or bad , it is stimulation. Just the fact that some of the people on this site read one's book is an accomplishment.
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Post by count »

Well, I wasn't implying they were great works of literature. Just applauding the guy's effort. Yeah, it's a rock, but the man-shaped rock crops up throughout the Dutchman-related lore. I think though it was S.C. who hit it on the head - give me 15 minutes in the Superstitions and I'll show you ten man-shaped rocks. The place is lousy with them. That's the problem with clues like that. With most of the clues, for that matter! <br>And it's sadly true that most of us will buy anything on the subject, good or bad. So if you have a Dutchman book of your own in the works, well, I'll probably buy it!
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Post by count »

I don't know if I am a walking encyclopedia on the subject of the LDM or not. (In fact I am lucky enough to know a fellow whose knowledge of the LDM compared to mine is comparative to to a humans intelligence vs. a rocks..and I'm the rock in this case..lol). But I am a quick learner and not afraid to ask questions..some get answered , some dont... In any event I think I could hold my own with most folks on all things LDM. <br> <br>I agree with Ron as far as not thinking it "wrong" or "bad" to critique anothers book, article or theory. The give and take on this forum is for the most part (the Sitting Bull thread aside)outstanding, and there is more to be learned on here than on any book I have yet read about the subject. Posts by Hiker, Ron, SC and Matt have been thoughtful and thought provoking. <br> <br>For example, the threads and give and take on John Kochera, Walt Gassler or the Two Soldiers cant be found in any book..and it is interesting to have knowledgeable LDM folks debating the different topics. <br> <br>I think I need to start another thread <br>that would take our minds off of foolishness....anyone ever hear of the story of Slim Kite?.... lol
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Post by count »

Okay. I may have jumped the gun a little on my assessment of Peter. Of course I was only assuming the "walking" part :)
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Post by count »

Sorry. The above is from me.
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Post by count »

Are you the same Fritzski from the Hike Arizona web site? If so, your stuff is great. Either you or someone else had a killer description of a hike up Battleship Mt that has me all inspired to go!
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Post by count »

One in the same. I doubt you'll find any treasure up there, but it sure is one neat hike. <br> <br>Some of the "history" on my Superstition hikes is a very rudimentary to your guy's standards and some of it probably wrong, but I think it's getting better with time and I intend to keep learning. I would like to keep the "history" section for each hike short, but maybe try and give the reader a slant he hasn't heard before a dozen times. Thanks for the neat little insights one can glean from this site.
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Post by count »

Hello Fritzski, <br> <br>I'd like to echo Hikers sentiment, I have looked at your site several times, the pics are excellent. <br> <br>Have a question for you that I am not sure you have answered yet. Do you know where the term "Massacre Ramp" originates, or is that one of your own? <br> <br>P
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Post by count »

Thanks, from you guys, I'll consider it a real compliment. <br> <br>I think that's a term Joe, the web master, came up with. I had never heard it before either. I do think he is referring to that prominent formation like a small mesa that you climb on your way to the falls. It is sloping on the northwest, but has a sheer northeast face overlooking Massacre Grounds as shown on the Beartooth map.
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Post by count »

You mention the "Beartooth Map." I am not familiar with that. Can you elaborate. <br> <br>Thanks.
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Post by count »

I think Beartooth Maps makes a map of the Superstition Wilderness. Maybe a composite of the standard topos? There's a description of it on Doug Stewart's web site, under "maps"
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Post by count »

It is the best Superstition WA map out there as far as the most accurate depiction of the FS trails - showing the name, number, and mileage of each trail on plasticated paper. I use it for planning purposes, then my software for the actual hike. It is by Beartooth publications and can be found at REI, Popular, Wide World of Maps, etc.
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Post by count »

The SMHS museum also sells this map, I believe it's around $8.50. It's a real godsend when hiking: it folds up small, it stands up well to massive amounts of abuse, it's easy to make notes on it, and it puts all eight topo maps of the wilderness in one handy package. I agree that it's the best one out there! <br> <br>I try to buy these things from the museum whenever possible. They need our support a lot more than REI or Wide World of Maps do.
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Post by count »

I agree to that map being the best out there for some things . I too, just purchased one from the museum. What I really dislike about it , is almost everything of a historical significance has been eliminated . Find Aylor's Caballo Camp, Piper's Spring, Indian Paint , Angel Springs Cliff Dwellings, the list goes on. Also there are trails that are completely vanished off this map. Gee, I wonder why ? Sounds like the Forest Service had some influence . I actually bought the map to see what was gone on it. I really I'm thinking about putting one out with everything back on it. How's that sound to most of you, as an idea? By the way anybody remember the old Stirrat Map ,produced in the 60's? That was a fun map, not much for trails , but had alot of historical data on it , as I remember.
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Post by count »

I would buy it in a heartbeat and know about a dozen others who would too. <br> <br>The USGS topos aren't the answer either for the opposite reason. They omit all the trails that didn't exist or weren't researched when that data was compiled decades ago. Also many mistakes (ie. Whetrock instead of Whetlach and Reeds Water instead of Reids, just to name a few) <br> <br>Are copies of that old Stirrat still available anywhere?
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Post by count »

I think it's a great idea and I would buy it instantly. <br> <br>Phoenix Library on McDowell has a Stirrat map. You can copy it off in sections and tape them together. Crude, but you'll have the map.
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