estee conatser

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estee conatser

Postby count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:32 am

can anybody confirm or discredit estees conatsers claim in her book regarding the four men who supposedly took a fortune in gold fronm the superstitions in the 1940s.or is this yet another nonsense . also the claim in several books of the supposed 254000 dollars of gold waltz took from his mine? several authors have used this amount and stated it as fact.where did this figure come from?are there records to support these enigmatic statements

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Postby count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:32 am

Conatser's book doesn't go into any detail over who the men were who took the gold out of the mountains in the 40's. It's believed this story stems from accounts of several men from san carlos who went into the Superstitions in the 1940's and removed $50,000 worth of gold and silver from a hidden cave or hole. This story is linked somehow to the Kochera story and the map Kochera had with him that he got from an indian named Haywood. <br> <br>The $254,000 figure is a mystery. I have heard that sum mentioned that Waltz sent that amount to the mint in SanFrancisco but no records remain to verify the story. Also that Waltz sent that amount of gold to a sister back in Germany but again no record of that transaction has been found. Somewhere in Tom Glovers book he mentions a record with Waltzs transactions but it was a much smaller amount if I remember, only a couple thousand dollars or so. Most of these stories are tall tales used by authors to sell their books.

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Postby count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:33 am

I've never seen a connection made between the Conaster and Kochera stories. Even in the in depth discussions about Kochera on this bulletin board. <br> <br>Its an interesting to think about though. Anonymous, how did you make this connection? Does anyone else have comments about this?

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Postby count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:33 am

Conatser claimed that a &quot;group of men&quot; found a &quot;king's ransom&quot; in gold bars in the 1940s in a cave somewhere in the mountains. That members of this group returned every year to take additional gold out of the mountains. She stated that she knew this to be a fact. <br> <br>On the other hand we have Mr Anonymous telling us that a group of men from San Carlos (read &quot;Apache&quot; here) came into the mountains in the 1940s and retrieved cached gold ore from a pit or cave. This is then connected to the Haywood/Apache/Kochera story. <br> <br>The question then is are the stories related in any way? <br> <br>My guess (and its only a guess) is that they are not. I find it difficult to link the cave/gold bars tale with the pit/gold story. Just doesnt sound right...but what do I know? <br> <br>In any event, Kochera just found an old saddlebag on the Charlebois Trail lying under some brush...

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Postby count » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:33 am

In an earlier post it was stated &quot;it is believed this story stems from accounts of several men from san carlos -----&quot; No one knows for sure if Mrs. Conatser was refering to this account or not. Estee died a while back so we can't go back and ask her. When she was researching her book, Conatser drew from several sources of information. Several long time mine hunters shared things with her. The reference in her book to the Kings ransom in gold probably came from a letter John Kochera wrote to Rick Peck back in the 1960's. In that letter he detailed the account of an indian friend of his &quot;Haywood&quot;, who went into the Superstitions with a group of men in the late 1940's and took out some $50,000 in gold, silver, etc. from a cave or hidden hole. I have heard several variations of this story over the years but always with the same basic lines. I have never seen the letter Kochera wrote to Peck, but I know others who have and they all describe the contents of the letter the same. <br>Don't jump to conclusions about the men from san carlos being apache's. Back in the 40's some non-indians worked and lived there and leased some homes and land. It could have been white men for all we know who might have been with this Haywood.

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Record Exists For $7000 Gold Transaction

Postby LDMFAN » Fri Dec 13, 2002 12:49 pm

[quote="count"]Somewhere in Tom Glovers book he mentions a record with Waltzs transactions but it was a much smaller amount if I remember, only a couple thousand dollars or so. Most of these stories are tall tales used by authors to sell their books.[/quote]

In Helen Corbin's new book (The Bible (sic)), she has a photocopy of the gold/money transfer to his sister in the amount of $7,000.

It was commonly thought that he shipped it Germany and that was why nobody could find a record of it. Evidently, she found it and I believe it was sent to Missouri. Would have to go back and read it again. So, Waltz did have some gold at that time. I would think that $7K was quite a sum back then.


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